Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[JCSunsfan]

A broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean you should keep the clock.

But a broken clock is not right more than 50% of the time, so the analogy is pointless.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Even a blind acorn finds a squirrel now and then.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[Cheesebeef]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

not if it's carrying bird flu.

 

[JCSunsfan]

not if it's carrying bird flu.

 

[Phrazbit]

He just got extended last summer, he isn't going anywhere.

I can see him getting canned midway through next year, no sooner.

 

[Chaplin]

But a broken clock is not right more than 50% of the time, so the analogy is pointless.

It's only pointless if you don't think McD's worth is that of a broken clock.

 

[Chaplin]

He just got extended last summer, he isn't going anywhere.

I can see him getting canned midway through next year, no sooner.

Probably right, but he better hit a home run with the draft and coach hire.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He just got extended last summer, he isn't going anywhere.

I can see him getting canned midway through next year, no sooner.

Yeah, I think he's safe for awhile too. Mostly because he took care of Sarver's biggest problem, namely money. Granted, it was the TV contract windfall more than anything Ryan did but it gave him some breathing room. With Booker apparently at the win-now stage, they are abandoning the timeline and going forward as if the foundation has been built. If it turns out a year or two from now that our foundation is shaky (and it may well be), Ryan will be replaced.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah, I think he's safe for awhile too. Mostly because he took care of Sarver's biggest problem, namely money. Granted, it was the TV contract windfall more than anything Ryan did but it gave him some breathing room. With Booker apparently at the win-now stage, they are abandoning the timeline and going forward as if the foundation has been built. If it turns out a year or two from now that our foundation is shaky (and it may well be), Ryan will be replaced.

The question is if you have faith he can successfully institute the "win now" philosophy. He tried it before and failed spectacularly.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, I think he's safe for awhile too. Mostly because he took care of Sarver's biggest problem, namely money. Granted, it was the TV contract windfall more than anything Ryan did but it gave him some breathing room. With Booker apparently at the win-now stage, they are abandoning the timeline and going forward as if the foundation has been built. If it turns out a year or two from now that our foundation is shaky (and it may well be), Ryan will be replaced.

We’re moving forward because it is time to move forward. We have Booker and Jackson and they should absolutely expect to get a very good player from this draft. Tanking definitely shouldn’t continue after this season.

Also going by what McD said about his coaching search would suggest that they won’t go for improving the win total next year at all costs. It seems they will look to make moves to improve, but will not take shortcuts or desperate moves that give away too much either.

 

[iLLmatiC]

The question is if you have faith he can successfully institute the "win now" philosophy. He tried it before and failed spectacularly.

He has struggled to show he knows how to assemble a team properly. I think he definitely needs to hire a solid HC who can bring in good Assistant coaches to develop the players. The clock is definitely ticking on McD, he needs to nail this draft and make a couple of savvy trades.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We’re moving forward because it is time to move forward. We have Booker and Jackson and they should absolutely expect to get a very good player from this draft. Tanking definitely shouldn’t continue after this season.

Also going by what McD said about his coaching search would suggest that they won’t go for improving the win total next year at all costs. It seems they will look to make moves to improve, but will not take shortcuts or desperate moves that give away too much either.

Most people seem to feel this way but I don't. We're going to move forward but it remains to be seen if the time should be now. My biggest concern with tanking has always been whether we'd have the vision and patience to stay with it. Right now, it's looking like we don't.

If we get lucky and draft a superstar this June, then we probably are ready to start winning. But if we don't, if we draft another Bender, we're still going to pretend that the foundation has been laid. We'll give away undeveloped players and future draft picks to acquire some veterans that will make us a better team. And that will likely come at the expense of our future.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Most people seem to feel this way but I don't. We're going to move forward but it remains to be seen if the time should be now. My biggest concern with tanking has always been whether we'd have the vision and patience to stay with it. Right now, it's looking like we don't.

If we get lucky and draft a superstar this June, then we probably are ready to start winning. But if we don't, if we draft another Bender, we're still going to pretend that the foundation has been laid. We'll give away undeveloped players and future draft picks to acquire some veterans that will make us a better team. And that will likely come at the expense of our future.

I'm with ya.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Our disagreement here doesn't matter much. He is not in any near term danger. By this time next year, there will probably be near consensus on the board concerning McD. He will sink or swim this summer and it will show by next spring.

This summer he has to:
1. Hire a new coach.
2. Draft a star.
3. Trade or consolidate assets (simply making all our picks as the now stand is not an option)
4. Add veteran free agents (and vacate present roster spots like Len and Elfrid).

We will have a really good idea by September, and we will all most likely be completely convinced by March.

 

[Chaplin]

Our disagreement here doesn't matter much. He is not in any near term danger. By this time next year, there will probably be near consensus on the board concerning McD. He will sink or swim this summer and it will show by next spring.

This summer he has to:
1. Hire a new coach.
2. Draft a star.
3. Trade or consolidate assets (simply making all our picks as the now stand is not an option)
4. Add veteran free agents (and vacate present roster spots like Len and Elfrid).

We will have a really good idea by September, and we will all most likely be completely convinced by March.

Pretty good summary there. And I think he has to hit on all 4 of those to be considered a success.

 

[BC867]

I have no idea, I'd guess mediocre at best. But I do think stability at GM and Head Coach is almost as important as having the right person, up until you're absolutely sure you have the wrong one.

I dunno, Steve. Unless the team's goal is mediocrity, "mediocre at best" for the sake of stability doesn't sound like a winning agenda.

To me, "mediocre at best" is the wrong one. As the saying goes, "quality over quantity" (of years).

It is like someone saying that their doctor or accountant or attorney is mediocre at best, but I must keep stability.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Our disagreement here doesn't matter much. He is not in any near term danger. By this time next year, there will probably be near consensus on the board concerning McD. He will sink or swim this summer and it will show by next spring.

This summer he has to:
1. Hire a new coach.
2. Draft a star.
3. Trade or consolidate assets (simply making all our picks as the now stand is not an option)
4. Add veteran free agents (and vacate present roster spots like Len and Elfrid).

We will have a really good idea by September, and we will all most likely be completely convinced by March.

JC... what are your expectations for where we'll be by the end of next year of which you'll judge if McD has sunk or is swimming?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I dunno, Steve. Unless the team's goal is mediocrity, "mediocre at best" for the sake of stability doesn't sound like a winning agenda.

To me, "mediocre at best" is the wrong one. As the saying goes, "quality over quantity" (of years).

It is like someone saying that their doctor or accountant or attorney is mediocre at best, but I must keep stability.

Yeah, but that's just my guess. In truth, I have no idea whether he's done a good job because I don't really know what mandate he's been operating under. None of us do. For me, the time to fire him would have been following the Dragic/I.T. blunders. Once he talked Sarver into a total rebuild that changed everything. You can't fault him for the team losing the past two seasons as that is part and parcel of this total rebuild.

But he really needs to hit it out of the park this offseason. And that scares me, it's almost reason enough for me to want to see him replaced right now. I don't want to see any big gambles. I hate the idea of throwing everything at a college coach that no one close to the situation believes is interested.

While we're screwing around trying to hire the Villanova guy and signing a Lebron James or Chris Paul or Paul George, we'll be losing opportunities to hire a Fizdale and sign a Gordon, Mirotic or Randle. I want a solid coaching hire and I want us to draft an impact player not a fantasy like Chriss and Bender. And I don't want to see us throw max dollars at players that aren't worth it.

 

[Mainstreet]

We’re moving forward because it is time to move forward. We have Booker and Jackson and they should absolutely expect to get a very good player from this draft. Tanking definitely shouldn’t continue after this season.

Also going by what McD said about his coaching search would suggest that they won’t go for improving the win total next year at all costs. It seems they will look to make moves to improve, but will not take shortcuts or desperate moves that give away too much either.

I'm totally with you on this. It's time for the Suns to move forward. The Suns have had their bites at the apple.

They have Booker and Jackson plus hopefully a top draft pick. Also Chriss and Bender should take a step forward not to mention Warren. The Suns should also add a solid player via trade or free agency.

Losing is not a guarantee of anything. Even the lottery odds will diminish next season to limit tanking.

The Jazz are doing quite nicely with Gobert and Donovan Mitchell. The Suns do need to hire a good coach though.

 

[JCSunsfan]

JC... what are your expectations for where we'll be by the end of next year of which you'll judge if McD has sunk or is swimming?

Legit question.

1. Solid coach. Decent interview process. I will need to see a discernible offensive philosophy and some sort of commitment to defense. I will also want progress in some of the young guys. I don't expect miracles. Some players just can't be developed.
2. Draft a star player. The #1 pick out of this draft should end up a star. That potential should be evident right away. If McD trades away the #1 pick, I will light the torch and pick up a pitchfork myself.
3. Do something productive with the assets amassed. If we go through the draft and just make our picks, I will consider that a failure.
4. This roster needs at least two quality veteran free agents WHO ARE CAPABLE OF MAKING A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION ON THE FLOOR. I am not looking for Chandler/Dudley style mentors. These should be players under 29 or so who can reasonably fit within a 5 year time-line.
5. Avoid stupid financial commitments to our own or other marginal players--this includes Len and Payton, but would also include other free agents.
6. Be closer to or in the hunt for a playoff spot. I would want to see 30 plus wins as an absolute minimum (which is not enough to come close to competing for a playoff spot, but would be a 10 plus game improvement).

 

[AzStevenCal]

3. If we go through the draft and just make our picks, I will consider that a failure.

This is the only one I disagree with. Simply making our picks might be our best option. It's not what I want. What I want is to see us package a couple of current picks and a future pick and grab another top 8 player this season. But you can't invent trade opportunities.

 

[pokerface]

Legit question.

1. Solid coach. Decent interview process. I will need to see a discernible offensive philosophy and some sort of commitment to defense. I will also want progress in some of the young guys. I don't expect miracles. Some players just can't be developed.
2. Draft a star player. The #1 pick out of this draft should end up a star. That potential should be evident right away. If McD trades away the #1 pick, I will light the torch and pick up a pitchfork myself.
3. Do something productive with the assets amassed. If we go through the draft and just make our picks, I will consider that a failure.
4. This roster needs at least two quality veteran free agents WHO ARE CAPABLE OF MAKING A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION ON THE FLOOR. I am not looking for Chandler/Dudley style mentors. These should be players under 29 or so who can reasonably fit within a 5 year time-line.
5. Avoid stupid financial commitments to our own or other marginal players--this includes Len and Payton, but would also include other free agents.
6. Be closer to or in the hunt for a playoff spot. I would want to see 30 plus wins as an absolute minimum (which is not enough to come close to competing for a playoff spot, but would be a 10 plus game improvement).

This list need to be pinned to somebody's forehead in the front office.

 

[Hoop Head]

I know some people don't think it should matter but I can't help but consider who would take over for McD if he's fired. In addition to who would replace him, how long it would take to replace him needs to be considered also. How long is more important than who, at this stage. Could the Suns hire his replacement before the draft? I'm not sure. It took the Cavs over a month last offseason to replace David Griffin. Their new GM was not in place for the beginning of free agency or the draft itself. If the Suns ended up in a similar position that could be disastrous. I think it's somewhat safe to assume that James Jones would take over for McD, at least in the interim, and then the question needs to be asked are you comfortable with James Jones making our draft selection? Jones was hired last offseason as the assistant GM right after he retired as a player. He only has 1 year worth of experience working in an NBA front office and we don't know what he was tasked with throughout the year. I'm not more comfortable with Jones choosing our next head coach and making our draft selection than I am McD doing so.

It will take time to replace him and the time to fire him, if the Suns went that route, would have been earlier in the season. Probably after the Bledsoe fiasco. That would have given the Suns plenty of time during the season to bring someone in while the season was playing out. Not having a GM during the season wouldn't have been as bad as not having one to start the offseason, IMO. I'm not for McD being fired in general but I think firing him now would be a big mistake. Perhaps a bigger mistake than he would be capable of making this offseason. Give him the opportunity to cash in the assets he's acquired this offseason and reevaluate his position after the first month or two of the season next year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know some people don't think it should matter but I can't help but consider who would take over for McD if he's fired. In addition to who would replace him, how long it would take to replace him needs to be considered also. How long is more important than who, at this stage. Could the Suns hire his replacement before the draft? I'm not sure. It took the Cavs over a month last offseason to replace David Griffin. Their new GM was not in place for the beginning of free agency or the draft itself. If the Suns ended up in a similar position that could be disastrous. I think it's somewhat safe to assume that James Jones would take over for McD, at least in the interim, and then the question needs to be asked are you comfortable with James Jones making our draft selection? Jones was hired last offseason as the assistant GM right after he retired as a player. He only has 1 year worth of experience working in an NBA front office and we don't know what he was tasked with throughout the year. I'm not more comfortable with Jones choosing our next head coach and making our draft selection than I am McD doing so.

It will take time to replace him and the time to fire him, if the Suns went that route, would have been earlier in the season. Probably after the Bledsoe fiasco. That would have given the Suns plenty of time during the season to bring someone in while the season was playing out. Not having a GM during the season wouldn't have been as bad as not having one to start the offseason, IMO. I'm not for McD being fired in general but I think firing him now would be a big mistake. Perhaps a bigger mistake than he would be capable of making this offseason. Give him the opportunity to cash in the assets he's acquired this offseason and reevaluate his position after the first month or two of the season next year.

I'm still worried about James Jones being our next head coach. LOL

Agree firing McDonough would be a mistake right now especially coming off the Jackson draft pick.

McDonough's drafts have been fairly good considering where they selected in weak drafts.

The thorn in Mcdonough's side has been trading the Lakers pick. However, GMs are going to make mistakes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm still worried about James Jones being our next head coach. LOL

Agree firing McDonough would be a mistake right now especially coming off the Jackson draft pick.

McDonough's drafts have been fairly good considering where they selected in weak drafts.

The thorn in Mcdonough's side has been trading the Lakers pick. However, GMs are going to make mistakes.

I wish he hadn't done that but I understood why so it doesn't really bother me. And it's turned out that he was right (arguably) on everything about that move except for his valuation of Knight. Anyway, here's my main list of Ryan issues. I left the hiring of Watson out of this group because we just don't know how that went down. I don't think Sarver is as hands on as some think he it but I wouldn't be surprised if we learn that Sarver influenced that hire.

1. Getting into a very public "I know you are but what am I" fight with Goran. Dragic was completely in the wrong but McD needed to be the adult rather than crawling into the sandbox with Goran.

2. Constantly defining players as trade chips.

3. Paying a premium to draft a high risk prospect. We gave away far too much to get Chriss. He's the type of player that you draft in the mid teens and hope you get lucky. He was not the type of player that you throw away a solid Euro player like Bogdan along with 2 draft picks.

4. Drafting Len. Alex was an unremarkable player in college, his one shining moment coming against a disappointing Nerlens Noel. Add to that his injury problem and it was just a bad gamble.

5. Not trading Bledsoe prior to shutting down veterans last season. I don't blame Ryan for the way it ended but if he had a chance to move Eric for decent value either at the deadline or around the draft, he was foolish for not taking it.

6. Shooting his mouth off about beating Boston out of a Josh Jackson meeting.

7. Spending a top 4 pick on a player for which there was virtually no game footage.

I don't know how they stack up to his successes but I do believe he's learned enough to avoid doing something similar as regards 1,2,6 and hopefully 7.