SI: How Peyton picked the Broncos

[az1965]

But not for the OL.

So? The OL is not going to be much worse than what we already had. Its not that we have lost a pro-bowler or a hall of famer.

Seems to me Manning made the right choice for himself this offseason. Would the Cardinals be a better team with him? Hell yes. But, IMO, the playoffs would still be very much in question.

How so?

We have two weak areas: QB and OT

How does addressing one of the key spots would keep playoffs "very much" in question when we went 8-8 with two so so QB's and pretty much same crappy OL?

 

[az1965]

Bad Oline contributes to bad QB play. Its a team sport, one thing relies on the other. Kinda hard to read a defense when you're on your back.

General rule of thumb is that if a sack takes happens in less than 4 seconds then its on the OLine. If its over 4 secs, its on the QB. Our QBs are getting pressured before they can finish a 3 step drop. Hell the first play we had a 2 TE set, meaning 7 blockers, against a 4 man rush and still got their asses handed to them. No QB can do well in those circumstances ... NONE

News for you pal... we have had crappy OL for decades, not even decent.

Warner was able to hide the weaknesses of the OL. Same goes for a HOF QB like Manning.

 

[Evil Ash]

So? The OL is not going to be much worse than what we already had. Its not that we have lost a pro-bowler or a hall of famer.


How so?

We have two weak areas: QB and OT

How does addressing one of the key spots would keep playoffs "very much" in question when we went 8-8 with two so so QB's and pretty much same crappy OL?

He's not helping if he's hurt. No Oline means an ineffective (and likely injured)Peyton. Its not like he missed a year with a bad neck or anything

 

[Pariah]

We lost the starting LT, changed the RG and RT. It's worse, dude. It just is.

 

[Evil Ash]

News for you pal... we have had crappy OL for decades, not even decent.

Warner was able to hide the weaknesses of the OL. Same goes for a HOF QB like Manning.

Mike Gandy was an average LT and Levi Brown is an above average RT. I'd kill for mediocrity right now

 

[az1965]

Yeah, that's what's being said in this thread--or any thread for that matter. Jesus. Get a grip.

You are the one who needs to get a grip since it seems like you are completely clueless about what's going on and what is missing.

 

[Pariah]

He's not helping if he's hurt. No Oline means an ineffective (and likely injured)Peyton. Its not like he missed a year with a bad neck or anything

I actually don't agree with this. His neck is not at more risk for re-injury at this point. I just don't think he's worth more than a couple of more wins with such a crappy OL. With a decent OL he's worth a whole bunch of wins, but his effectiveness behind this line is really mitigated.

JMHO

 

[az1965]

Mike Gandy was an average LT and Levi Brown is an above average RT. I'd kill for mediocrity right now

Like I said the drop off is not going to be much. Levi is an average tackle at best. Statistically, he is one of the bottom feeders on the list of tackles.

 

[Pariah]

You are the one who needs to get a grip since it seems like you are completely clueless about what's going on and what is missing.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[Pariah]

Like I said the drop off is not going to be much. Levi is an average tackle at best. Statistically, he is one of the bottom feeders on the list of tackles.

The distance between "average" and "practice squad" is pretty significant in the NFL.

JMHO

 

[az1965]

The distance between "average" and "practice squad" is pretty significant in the NFL.

JMHO

DJ Young will never be on the OL going into the season. Not sure what Whiz and Grimm wanted to achieve by putting an undrafted practice squad guy on the LT spot as a starter. But the line with Batiste on the LT and Massie on the RT stabilized and may be our best option. Massie is going to make some mistakes but he already improved drastically yesterday compared to his early showings. The OL is not going to be dominant, of course, but it is also not going to be complete doom either. We will be ok.

 

[Darkside]

Dude... if Kolb survived last night's OL, Manning would definitely have.

That's a fallacy: Kolb is more athletic than Manning. Don't care what anyone says. Manning is a pocket QB and was never athletic and is even less so now, at his age. He would have been destroyed. People can hate Kolb, but Manning would have been destroyed behind this oline after 3 games.

 

[Darkside]

News for you pal... we have had crappy OL for decades, not even decent.

Warner was able to hide the weaknesses of the OL. Same goes for a HOF QB like Manning.

News for you pal, Warner had a way better, much better, miles better, like the rock of Gibraltar better oline than these guys have. There's no comparison. We would have destroyed Manning behind this oline and it would have been a travesty and a league scandal.

 

[az1965]

News for you pal, Warner had a way better, much better, miles better, like the rock of Gibraltar better oline than these guys have. There's no comparison. We would have destroyed Manning behind this oline and it would have been a travesty and a league scandal.

Really??? That is news for me... we never had more than a mediocre OL. Talk about overstatement of the year.

 

[Darkside]

We lost the starting LT, changed the RG and RT. It's worse, dude. It just is.

Way worse. Kurt had a functioning oline. What we considered bad back then is nothing compared to this crap. There's absolutely no comparison. Totally agree with you. Even if we had Levi, which we don't, but even if we did this oline is worse than what Kurt had.

 

[Pariah]

Really??? That is news for me... we never had more than a mediocre OL.

That's the whole point. Mediocre in this case is WAY better than the line we have today.

 

[Pariah]

AZ1965, do you think Manning made the right choice for Manning? Or do you think he would have been better off in AZ?

 

[Darkside]

Really??? That is news for me... we never had more than a mediocre OL. Talk about overstatement of the year.

Not at all, compared to what we have this year, what Warner had was heaven regarding the oline. There's no comparison at all.

 

[Darkside]

That's the whole point. Mediocre in this case is WAY better than the line we have today.

Precisely, wish I had put it that way.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's a fallacy: Kolb is more athletic than Manning. Don't care what anyone says. Manning is a pocket QB and was never athletic and is even less so now, at his age. He would have been destroyed. People can hate Kolb, but Manning would have been destroyed behind this oline after 3 games.

Avoiding hits as a QB is more about reading the defense, making small adjustments and being decisive than it is about athletism. Manning would make our line look waaaaaaaaaay better than it is just by being Manning. Also a QB as good as him keeps the coverage honest, while against crap Kolb you can do cover 0 blitzes all game long and it wont matter, he is more likely to throw it to the wrong team than he is read and beat a blitz.

 

[az1965]

I disagree.

So you are saying Gandy was miles better than say Batiste at LT? Gandy constantly struggled. Batiste may struggle, I don't know, but based on limited showing, he seems to be ok. But definitely not miles apart.

Reggie Wells miles better than Colledge? Marginally, maybe, but not miles.

Lutui miles better than Snyder? Better, perhaps, but not miles.

Levi Brown miles better than Massie? Better, perhaps, but not miles. Jury is still out on Massie, but I liked what I have seen so far. Levi was definitely a better run blocker but an atrocious pass blocker. We will see what Massie does, if indeed he gets the starting nod.

 

[Darkside]

Avoiding hits as a QB is more about reading the defense, making small adjustments and being decisive than it is about athletism. Manning would make our line look waaaaaaaaaay better than it is just by being Manning. Also a QB as good as him keeps the coverage honest, while against crap Kolb you can do cover 0 blitzes all game long and it wont matter, he is more likely to throw it to the wrong team than he is read and beat a blitz.

There are plays where that's true, like Kolb's INT the 2nd half, where he just locks on to a guy and throws it instead of reading the wide open TE in the middle of the field. But over a period of time it won't matter. He's going to get destroyed.

I disagree though that just by being Manning he's going to stifle coverages, behind our Oline they would come after him more than otherwise. Our oline sucks so bad they are going to hit him and keep hitting him. I doubt he even makes it out of preseason. Our QB's have been obliterated. An old guy like Manning doesn't even survive, pre-snap reads or not.

 

[Pariah]

So you are saying Gandy was miles better than say Batiste at LT?

Yes.

Reggie Wells miles better than Colledge? Marginally, maybe, but not miles.

Yes.

Lutui miles better than Snyder? Better, perhaps, but not miles.

Yes.

Levi Brown miles better than Massie? Better, perhaps, but not miles.

By your own admission 4 of the 5 spots along the line have declined FROM MARGINAL.

 

[Darkside]

I disagree.

So you are saying Gandy was miles better than say Batiste at LT? Gandy constantly struggled. Batiste may struggle, I don't know, but based on limited showing, he seems to be ok. But definitely not miles apart.

Reggie Wells miles better than Colledge? Marginally, maybe, but not miles.

Lutui miles better than Snyder? Better, perhaps, but not miles.

Levi Brown miles better than Massie? Better, perhaps, but not miles. Jury is still out on Massie, but I liked what I have seen so far. Levi was definitely a better run blocker but an atrocious pass blocker. We will see what Massie does, if indeed he gets the starting nod.

I won't even break it down because just looking at it as a whole I have to wonder how you can even ask whether the line in 08 was better than today. There's totally no comparison.

 

[Pariah]

Again, I'm not saying Manning wouldn't make this team better. The man is the best QB to ever play the position, IMO. I'm just saying he might take this team from 4 wins to 8 this year. Or from 5 to 9. It's not a championship difference.

I also don't think Whiz would have turned the offense into HIS offense like Fox has done for him in Denver.