Sign and Trade with Stat

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Covert Rain

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Sign and Trade with Stat Now?

OK, this is getting weird. Now the Suns are in talks with Amare's agent to work out a sign and trade with Amare's rights before Warrick or Stat sign their deals. Also, trying to do something with Warrick's deal.

To me this smacks of "My name is Sarver and I didn't know I could do this". Like I said...it's getting weird.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...100705phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire-plan.html

Phoenix Suns seek return on Amar'e Stoudemire's move to New York Knicks


by Paul Coro - Jul. 5, 2010 10:00 PM

The Suns still might be able to get something out of Amar'e Stoudemire's departure after all.

Even with Stoudemire agreeing to a five-year, $99.7 million deal with the New York Knicks, the Suns are working on being able to use Stoudemire's rights in a sign-and-trade deal with the Knicks for a trade exception or perhaps even free-agent power forward David Lee.

The Suns would do so by also executing a sign-and-trade deal with Chicago and Hakim Warrick, who finished last season with the Bulls.

If the Suns do a sign-and-trade for Stoudemire first, they could receive a trade exception of up to about $17 million in return, unless a Lee contract is included. The Suns would then use part of that exception for the first $4 million year of Warrick's contract in a sign-and-trade with Chicago.

Chicago could benefit by getting a second-round draft pick from Phoenix, which might be able to get a second-round pick and a trade exception or Lee from New York. The Knicks benefit with a small bump in cap space by starting Stoudemire's contract at a lower first-year salary because the deal can have 10.5 percent raises via Phoenix rather than 8 percent raises if done by New York.

"If we can do something to help Phoenix, we will," Stoudemire's agent, Happy Walters, said.

The Suns have talked to Cleveland about a deal that would send Barbosa there for Jamario Moon, whose contract expires in a year, and Delonte West, who can be bought out of his contract. Barbosa has two years and $14.7 million remaining on his deal.

Moving Barbosa could put Phoenix in a position to save $3.5 million this season and have more salary-cap space next summer, when Jason Richardson's contract expires, for a maximum-level free agent. However, after Carmelo Anthony, the 2011 free-agency pool won't be nearly as strong, and there is a strong chance of a lockout.
 
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Mainstreet

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I found this to be a cart before the horse item for the Suns. Are the Suns only now interested in a sign and trade because it would save them money and give financial flexibility or would the Suns be willing to take back Lee to improve the team. Here are a couple of quotes that bother me as saving money is mentioned over and over again.

If the Suns do a sign-and-trade for Stoudemire first, they could receive a trade exception of up to about $17 million in return, unless a Lee contract is included. The Suns would then use part of that exception for the first $4 million year of Warrick's contract in a sign-and-trade with Chicago.

Chicago could benefit by getting a second-round draft pick from Phoenix, which might be able to get a second-round pick and a trade exception or Lee from New York. The Knicks benefit with a small bump in cap space by starting Stoudemire's contract at a lower first-year salary because the deal can have 10.5 percent raises via Phoenix rather than 8 percent raises if done by New York.

The Suns have talked to Cleveland about a deal that would send Barbosa there for Jamario Moon, whose contract expires in a year, and Delonte West, who can be bought out of his contract. Barbosa has two years and $14.7 million remaining on his deal.

Moving Barbosa could put Phoenix in a position to save $3.5 million this season and have more salary-cap space next summer, when Jason Richardson's contract expires, for a maximum-level free agent. However, after Carmelo Anthony, the 2011 free-agency pool won't be nearly as strong, and there is a strong chance of a lockout.

After the comments about Barbosa I have to question if the Suns are all about the money. I'm wondering if Happy Walters and the Knicks are giving the Suns advice... not that this is a bad thing considering the Suns seemed blind to the possibilities.
 
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chickenhead

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I would be ecstatic if we got Lee. I've become a big fan of his living in NY and think he is exactly the kind of player who could replace Amare's "real" value at a lower price.

But we just offered the deal to Warrick...
 

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I'm not sure if Sarver wants Lee and his contract although it would help the Suns field a much better team. I don't know if there will be any better FAs next year if the Suns basically just want the TPE. Sarver has a history of not using them as I recall. I'd really like to get Lee in return.
 

jagu

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I'm not sure if Sarver wants Lee and his contract although it would help the Suns field a much better team. I don't know if there will be any better FAs next year if the Suns basically just want the TPE. Sarver has a history of not using them as I recall. I'd really like to get Lee in return.

that would be great if we had Lee. We'd be a very improved rebounding team with Lopez and Lee cleaning. Throw in Earl Clark and you have a long front 3.
 

Kolo

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Maybe I misunderstand all the rules, but wouldn't Chicago get a trade exception for the amount of Warrick's salary that would count against their cap?
 

Mainstreet

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Maybe I misunderstand all the rules, but wouldn't Chicago get a trade exception for the amount of Warrick's salary that would count against their cap?

I believe you're right but I'm not an expert on these things.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Maybe I misunderstand all the rules, but wouldn't Chicago get a trade exception for the amount of Warrick's salary that would count against their cap?

I don't think they would get an exception as they are under the cap, but I'm not sure.
 

hafey

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Let me play devil's advocate (perhaps Bob Sarver's advocate) for a minute.

I'm not convinced taking a big money, long-term contract is such a good idea for the Suns. It would really reduce their post-lockout flexibility. If we make two assumptions: 1) The Suns do not add a large long-term contract to the payroll and 2) The Suns trade Barbosa for expiring contracts, then the Suns will be sitting at ~23,689,000 in committed money post lockout. That team includes Nash, Lopez, Lawal, Frye, Warrick, Dudley, Dragic, Clark + 6 cap holds.

No one knows exactly how drastically the new CBA will change the NBA, but even if the salary cap is reduced by 20% (56.1-11.22=44.9) the Suns would be sitting at roughly 20 million in cap room. I think that would be a good start for the post-Nash era.

It is something to consider.
 
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Covert Rain

Covert Rain

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I'm not sure if Sarver wants Lee and his contract although it would help the Suns field a much better team. I don't know if there will be any better FAs next year if the Suns basically just want the TPE. Sarver has a history of not using them as I recall. I'd really like to get Lee in return.

I hear alot of local media making a big deal about the Suns having a Max player slot next year. For who exactly?
 

dreamcastrocks

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I hear alot of local media making a big deal about the Suns having a Max player slot next year. For who exactly?

Who knows. 2012 is when Paul, Deron Williams will be available, not next year.
 
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Covert Rain

Covert Rain

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Who knows. 2012 is when Paul, Deron Williams will be available, not next year.

I would save my money for Paul but that is just me. However, something tells me there is going to be alot of saving period over the next few years. I would be money we don't sign a max type player any time soon. I hope I am wrong.
 

taz02

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Haven't we learned that we need big front court players to win a championship. So we let our 6'10" PF walk so we can have a slim chance at signing a PG in a couple years.

Who are we going to get at PF or C that is better than Amare? That is the only question. We have more quality guards than we know what to do with. It's time the Suns break the cycle of focusing on PG's.
 

Mainstreet

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Haven't we learned that we need big front court players to win a championship. So we let our 6'10" PF walk so we can have a slim chance at signing a PG in a couple years.

Who are we going to get at PF or C that is better than Amare? That is the only question. We have more quality guards than we know what to do with. It's time the Suns break the cycle of focusing on PG's.

The Suns need to think big but there is not much out there in 2011. Also I think betting on 2012 is a risky strategy. I take Lee now if the Suns can get him.

Separately, an elite PG is almost (not quite) as hard to get as an elite big man.
 

SunsTzu

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Who knows. 2012 is when Paul, Deron Williams will be available, not next year.

Melo will in probably be extended this year so most of the best FA next year will be restricted. If he doesn't get extended this year it would make sense for the Suns to go after Horford. Not sure he's a max player but he's really good all around player who'd likely excel playing his natural position next to Lopez and in the Suns offense. However the Hawks would be able to match any offer.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Melo will in probably be extended this year so most of the best FA next year will be restricted. If he doesn't get extended this year it would make sense for the Suns to go after Horford. Not sure he's a max player but he's really good all around player who'd likely excel playing his natural position next to Lopez and in the Suns offense. However the Hawks would be able to match any offer.

Might not be worth a max player, but he will probably get max or very near max dollars because of the lack of FA's on the market, especially big men.
 

carey

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Melo will in probably be extended this year so most of the best FA next year will be restricted. If he doesn't get extended this year it would make sense for the Suns to go after Horford. Not sure he's a max player but he's really good all around player who'd likely excel playing his natural position next to Lopez and in the Suns offense. However the Hawks would be able to match any offer.

Would they though? Especially after maxing out JJ this year. They will be paying 67M to 9 guys next year. Tax paying team for a 7th or 8th seed.
 

Mainstreet

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Would they though? Especially after maxing out JJ this year. They will be paying 67M to 9 guys next year. Tax paying team for a 7th or 8th seed.

The Suns would not be the only team at the feeding barrel I'm sure for Horford. There is always the sign and trade option for other teams to snag him.
 

taz02

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Separately, an elite PG is almost (not quite) as hard to get as an elite big man.[/quote]

Yea I know But there is no way a team is going to win a Championship in the next 5 years without multiple top quality bigs. Outside of the Magic era Lakers, has a team built around a PG ever won it all?

I personally think we are fine with Dragic at PG. In fact I think he is better suited than Nash for playoff style B-ball. A S&T for Lee would be great. we'd have a decent young core with Dragic, Lopez and Lee. We'd likely still have close to max money available after next season for a run at Durant or Anthony.
 

Chaplin

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The All-Knowing Gambo is reporting that the Suns want the Trade Exception, not Lee.
 
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