Signs of life from Lopez

[Errntknght]

I've yet to view a few other recent games but watching the Minnesota game I thought Robin was playing with a lot more fire than I've seen before. He still has pretty poor hands when it comes to latching onto rebounds but at least he was scrapping consistently and even throwing his weight around a bit. Probably would have got a number of fouls if the refs hadn't been 'letting them play' much of the time.

Not a whole lot to go on, but still, a positive sign is a positive sign - and I didn't want to go totally unremarked upon.

 

[Sunburn]

The guy really, really needs to work on his hands. Shot blocking ability I feel is good. Still rather uncomfortable with him playing center for us I must say, though, I am pullin for the guy.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

No one would label him a bust if he was working his ass off and hustling like a rookie should. But he always seems to be the last to react and never seems aggressive. When you seem someone perform like a ditz that doesn't outhustle anyone, you can't even note the positives for him, in my opinion. If I see those things change, then I will consider it a positive sign, but I am thus far not the slightest convinced.

I would LOVE to have a goofy haired happy go lucky guy play center for us, but not if he doesn't even convince me he wants to play basketball. Because right now he seems to be the guy who goes to work so he can have cash to buy comic books.

 

[binkar]

Robin Lopez is going to turn out to be an above average starting center in the NBA and will turn out to be a solid draft pick when all is said and done.... There I said it. Now mock me all you want because I am ready for it.

Lopez has drove me nuts and made me want to throw the remote at the tv, vomit, or run down onto the court and slap him a few times this year, but the reason I think he will turn out alright are as follows:

He obviously has a great ability to block shots and when he is in games for any decent period of time his timing improves and he actually does show some of those flashes of protecting the paint like we all want to see. He has had a few games this year where he did a phenomenal job of protecting the paint and blocking or changing nearly every shot that game in the paint.

His rebounding has improved (showed by his 11 boards against Minnesota) and he has done a much better job recently of either putting himself in position to get the board or putting his teammates in position to get the board by boxing out the other big men to assure that they wont be getting an offensive rebound.

His fouls are decreasing and a lot of times he has at least 1 of those fouls within the first minute he is in the game. The thing that does still bother me is that there are times when he leaves his feet to block a guard penetrating to the basket when a) he doesn't really need to with his length in some situations and b) he jumps into them so he is going to get called for the foul every time.

He does a fairly good job of defending the high pick and roll and showing on high screens, but often stays up to long and allows the big man to flash to the basket and then is trying to play catch up which leads to an easy basket or a foul every time (if he doesn't get there and make the block).

On the offensive side of the ball Robin still has a lot to work on. The thing that probably bothers me the most is that when he gets the ball and he is in a position to score he acts like the ball is a dang hot potato a lot of the time. Instead of going up and finishing with authority as a big 7 footer should he often rushes a shot and ends up missing some easy baskets. He also does this quite often when he gets a offensive rebound, he tries to tip the ball in too often when he could either a) have a put back dunk or b) catch the ball and go back up to either finish with authority or get fouled at least.

Robin will always struggle offensively as long as he continues to bring the ball so low where people can get to it. He needs to keep the ball higher where guards can't slap at it. He also has a really low release on his shot that leads to a lot of his shots getting blocked. These are both things that can hopefully be improved with good big man coaching. Not to mention that his hands look flat out awful at times and I don't even know what to say about that.

I also think a lot of this has to do with confidence. The Suns provide a pretty intimidating environment for rookies with all of the future hall of fame players on the roster and also the pressure to win now they have faced this year. There were very high expectations for this team and for these rookies and the Suns have also had a very short bench the last few years. A lot of other rookie big men that are contributing to their teams are playing for teams who didn't really have high expectations. I don't know if this really had much to do with Robins struggles or not, but lack of confidence definitely seems to have played a factor when they were told/expected to play a lot of minutes as rookies and then didn't or had their minutes cut.

I just think with confidence and good coaching Robin will be alright. That said, I haven't really been all that impressed with Bill Cartwright as the big mans coach. Either A) Robin is not applying the things that Cartwright is teaching him or B) Cartwright is failing to teach Robin some of the basic fundemental necessities to succeed in the NBA.

Well this all may be a bunch of garbage that I just wrote but they are some of the thoughts I have about Robin.

Don't stone me too bad.

 

[BC867]

Robin Lopez is going to turn out to be an above average starting center in the NBA and will turn out to be a solid draft pick when all is said and done.... There I said it. Now mock me all you want because I am ready for it.

I'm with you. In this age of instant gratification, fans expect rookies to walk into the most talented basketball league in the world and perform at their level.

It takes time and there is no shortcut for that.

I, too, believe that he will turn out to be a solid starting Center in the NBA . . . in time.

That's why we need to keep Shaq.

 

[slinslin]

I think he can be a solid player, at least a backup center.

What he needs are:

- 2 years of consistant playing time at least.
- 2 productive offseasons working on his strength

 

[lou_skywalker]

I think he can be a solid player, at least a backup center.

What he needs are:

- 2 years of consistant playing time at least.
- 2 productive offseasons working on his strength

absolutely he needs more playing time and that's the main downside of being a rookie in a winning team.
I wonder if he could become as good as his brother if he was starting in NJ Nets.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Robin Lopez is going to turn out to be an above average starting center in the NBA and will turn out to be a solid draft pick when all is said and done.... There I said it. Now mock me all you want because I am ready for it.

Hahahahhhahaha. (you asked for it. )

He is a poor, poor, poor, poor man's Ben Wallace. Lopez has absolutely no offensive game, and is a poor man defender. I don't believe Lopez has ever blocked a shot from his man, he is a good weak side defender, but his one on one defense is poor.

I think Lopez may have already reached his ceiling. Sad.

 

[asudevil83]

he needs to learn to stand up straight. that's half his problem right there.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

he needs to learn to stand up straight. that's half his problem right there.

The straighter you stand, the more immobile you are. Catch 22 with him for sure.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not starting center material IMO. He might be one of those guys that starts because you have nothing better. There is nothing about him that screams starter material to me. He is ackward on the court, is a horrible rebounder for his size and doesn't jump very well for a guy his size. How many dunks has this guy missed?

I wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now he is on his 3rd or 4th NBA team.

 

[Mainstreet]

Even if Robin corrected all his deficiencies as described above, he stills needs to add some weight and muscle to be effective. He doesn't have the strength to play inside with the big boys.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

he will never be a quality player in the NBA - about all he has going for him is shot blocking, however, in the NBA you have to be selective in how aggressive you are in shot blocking as it can lead to foul trouble real fast

the guy averaged about 9 point, 5 rebounds while playing next to another legit 7 footer in the PAC 10

if Robin Lopez was named Morris Hanson and played at Oregon State keeping everything else equal he would of been a 2nd round pick destined for the d-league at best

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not saying he'll be starter-quality, but some of you people need to understand how rookie big men actually develop in the NBA. There are a ton of them that were virtually nothings when they came out. I mean, we have one ON OUR OWN TEAM, for chrissakes! Robin may never become starter-quality, and he probably won't, but it's short-sighted and pure Phoenix Sun homerism to right him off as being a "nothing" in the NBA. Fans of teams always ignore the trends of the NBA when talking about their own team.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not saying he'll be starter-quality, but some of you people need to understand how rookie big men actually develop in the NBA. There are a ton of them that were virtually nothings when they came out. I mean, we have one ON OUR OWN TEAM, for chrissakes! Robin may never become starter-quality, and he probably won't, but it's short-sighted and pure Phoenix Sun homerism to right him off as being a "nothing" in the NBA. Fans of teams always ignore the trends of the NBA when talking about their own team.

Pure Phoenix homerism would be calling the guy the next great center. Disagree with you there. I admit that usually big men have a tendency to develop late in the NBA. However, there are very few examples of guys that didn't do much in college to come in and become starting material in the NBA.

He was a 9 point 5 rebound guy in college. Most teams in the NBA would be happy if their draft picks did AT LEAST what they did in college. In the NBA a 9 point a game 5 rebounding per game Center in the NBA is complete garbage. I guarantee the Suns expect him to do more then that if he ever starts. I just don't see it.

I pray that I am wrong because when Shaq moves on, if Lopez doesn't develop, we go back to Amare as the man at the center position. We had a horrible paint defense with Amare at center, Amare hates playing Center and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Chaplin]

Pure Phoenix homerism would be calling the guy the next great center. Disagree with you there. I admit that usually big men have a tendency to develop late in the NBA. However, there are very few examples of guys that didn't do much in college to come in and become starting material in the NBA.

He was a 9 point 5 rebound guy in college. Most teams in the NBA would be happy if their draft picks did AT LEAST what they did in college. In the NBA a 9 point a game 5 rebounding per game Center in the NBA is complete garbage. I guarantee the Suns expect him to do more then that if he ever starts. I just don't see it.

I pray that I am wrong because when Shaq moves on, if Lopez doesn't develop, we go back to Amare as the man at the center position. We had a horrible paint defense with Amare at center, Amare hates playing Center and we all know how that turned out.

What did Lou Amundson do in college? Robert Swift? Any big man for the Washington Wizards? I mean there are countless examples of servicable big men that succeeded in the NBA.

And by Phoenix Suns homerism, I mean treating players differently, which you have to admit is definitely the case here, and in almost everything else. (Whether it's over- or under-valuing them)

 

[Covert Rain]

What did Lou Amundson do in college? Robert Swift? Any big man for the Washington Wizards? I mean there are countless examples of servicable big men that succeeded in the NBA.

And by Phoenix Suns homerism, I mean treating players differently, which you have to admit is definitely the case here, and in almost everything else. (Whether it's over- or under-valuing them)

I understand what your trying to say. However, most of the examples in the NBA our guys that were average in college that went on to compete at the same level in the NBA. I can't recall very many below average centers in college (like Lopez) that went on to be starting material on a legit contending team. There are alot of crappy players who end up starting on the bottom feeder teams in the NBA.

If the Suns said they were drafting Lopez for bench depth that would be different. The Suns are touting the guy as our future starting center and one of the future cornerstones of the franchise. That is WAY different IMO. I don't think it's a stretch to call that thought...well a stretch. Maybe the expectations were set to high by the Suns FO????? I mean if they had said they drafted the guy for bench depth and for youth, I doubt there would be as many people all up in arms over the guy.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

What did Lou Amundson do in college? Robert Swift? Any big man for the Washington Wizards? I mean there are countless examples of servicable big men that succeeded in the NBA.

And by Phoenix Suns homerism, I mean treating players differently, which you have to admit is definitely the case here, and in almost everything else. (Whether it's over- or under-valuing them)

Robert Swift didn't go to college and hasn't done squat in the NBA - he's shown potential to play and a knack for injuries and tattoos - I dig big ugly, but he's not a contributor in any way shape or form

Amundson is far from a big man and far from the 6'9" they list him at - my wife is good friends with the wife of one of his cousins in MN - the group photo they sent after the recent t-wolves game would have me put him at 6'6" to 6'7" tops - he also did nothing in college (career 7 and 5 guy), but showed some signs of life by putting up 14 and 9 in his last year and grabbing a bunch of double doubles - lopez had 2 double doubles his entire collegiate career - he was also undrafted, had to hustle through the summer leagues to get into a team, play in the D-league and change organzations ........ if that is the benchmark for your 15h overall pick, then it's pretty sad

brendan heywood put up 12 & 7 his last 3 years at UNC - he's developed into a 8 and 6 guy at the NBA level - people loved his long arms and big frame, but he was soft even in college

etan thomas put up 13 and 10 his last year at syracuse and was a 12 and 8 guy his last 3 years in college

Blatche came out of HS and is just starting to look like he could be servicable

JaVale McGee is a rookie out of Reno putting up 6 and 4 in 15 mpg - he also came out after his sophomore year, tall, big wingspan, was drafted 3 spots after lopez and put up 14pts, 7 boards and 3 blocks his final season in reno - doesn't have the lopez name, but probably the better prospect and many wizards fans thought he was a complete reach and probable bust

 

[Chaplin]

I understand what your trying to say. However, most of the examples in the NBA our guys that were average in college that went on to compete at the same level in the NBA. I can't recall very many below average centers in college (like Lopez) that went on to be starting material on a legit contending team. There are alot of crappy players who end up starting on the bottom feeder teams in the NBA.

If the Suns said they were drafting Lopez for bench depth that would be different. The Suns are touting the guy as our future starting center and one of the future cornerstones of the franchise. That is WAY different IMO. I don't think it's a stretch to call that thought...well a stretch. Maybe the expectations were set to high by the Suns FO????? I mean if they had said they drafted the guy for bench depth and for youth, I doubt there would be as many people all up in arms over the guy.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone from the FO touting him as our starting center of the future. Do you have any references to that? Just curious.

 

[Chaplin]

Robert Swift didn't go to college and hasn't done squat in the NBA - he's shown potential to play and a knack for injuries and tattoos - I dig big ugly, but he's not a contributor in any way shape or form

Amundson is far from a big man and far from the 6'9" they list him at - my wife is good friends with the wife of one of his cousins in MN - the group photo they sent after the recent t-wolves game would have me put him at 6'6" to 6'7" tops - he also did nothing in college (career 7 and 5 guy), but showed some signs of life by putting up 14 and 9 in his last year and grabbing a bunch of double doubles - lopez had 2 double doubles his entire collegiate career - he was also undrafted, had to hustle through the summer leagues to get into a team, play in the D-league and change organzations ........ if that is the benchmark for your 15h overall pick, then it's pretty sad

brendan heywood put up 12 & 7 his last 3 years at UNC - he's developed into a 8 and 6 guy at the NBA level - people loved his long arms and big frame, but he was soft even in college

etan thomas put up 13 and 10 his last year at syracuse and was a 12 and 8 guy his last 3 years in college

Blatche came out of HS and is just starting to look like he could be servicable

JaVale McGee is a rookie out of Reno putting up 6 and 4 in 15 mpg - he also came out after his sophomore year, tall, big wingspan, was drafted 3 spots after lopez and put up 14pts, 7 boards and 3 blocks his final season in reno - doesn't have the lopez name, but probably the better prospect and many wizards fans thought he was a complete reach and probable bust

Are you kidding me? You spent all this time coming up with this stuff and I'm not even arguing that he's starter quality!

 

[MigratingOsprey]

wasn't that hard

so your hopes for a #15 pick would be to one day develop into a secondary big man coming off the bench and putting in 15 minutes a game?! Maybe get to the point where he can put up 6 & 4 in the pros. A block every now and again. Keep his foul count under 3......

 

[Chaplin]

wasn't that hard

so your hopes for a #15 pick would be to one day develop into a secondary big man coming off the bench and putting in 15 minutes a game?! Maybe get to the point where he can put up 6 & 4 in the pros. A block every now and again. Keep his foul count under 3......

Well, thank you for putting words in my mouth, but I'm done with this discussion. All I'm saying is that it is a little too early to proclaim him as a total disaster with no hope of improvement. That's all.

 

[Covert Rain]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone from the FO touting him as our starting center of the future. Do you have any references to that? Just curious.

I probably could find something. Were you watching on draft day? Kerr during the draft show said that Lopez and Dragic should be able to contribute from day 1. He then went on KTAR and said that Lopez and Dragic are expected to be part of the regular rotation and will contribute. When asked if Dragic was the back up point guard, Kerr said that is one of the reasons they they drafted him. In addition, he said that Dragic and Lopez were the future of the franchise.

I went off about what Kerr was saying on draft day. I posted in the draft thread my concerns about the Suns relying so heavily on 2 rookies being "primary bench players". Kerr was more bold on ESPN radio and I will try to find those. However, here are some local quotes:

"Robin Lopez is someone who will help us right away. It's rare to find an active 7 footer who can run and defend, so we felt fortunate that he fell to us at 15. Robin will provide something we don't have - a versatile big guy who can get out on the perimeter to defend screen and rolls, but who also has the size and mentality to protect the rim."

"Terry Porter expects him to contribute right away, so our depth will be greatly enhanced. Robin told us a month ago when we worked him out that he was dying to come to Phoenix, so he got his wish - as did we. This is going to be a great fit."

"We believe that Goran has the potential to be our starting point guard in the future, so to fill such an important position with a second round pick would be a coup."

All in all, it was a very successful draft. We still have several spots to fill through free agency, but we feel much better about our depth and the overall versatility of our roster.

"We felt that if things played out for us, we might be able to add two players who could help us accomplish our goal going into yesterday: to find players who can help us sustain our recent success"

 

[binkar]

Chaplin's argument was that you can't project an entire big mans career based upon limited playing time in his rookie season (at least that what I took from it and correct me if I am wrong). He never proclaimed that he was going to be a decent player in this league, he simply said it's too early to call him a success or failure. I was the one who said he will turn out to be an above average center in the NBA so attack me

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Robin Lopez is going to turn out to be an above average starting center in the NBA and will turn out to be a solid draft pick when all is said and done.... There I said it. Now mock me all you want because I am ready for it.




His rebounding has improved (showed by his 11 boards against Minnesota) and he has done a much better job recently of either putting himself in position to get the board or putting his teammates in position to get the board by boxing out the other big men to assure that they wont be getting an offensive rebound.


Instead of going up and finishing with authority as a big 7 footer should he often rushes a shot and ends up missing some easy baskets. He also does this quite often when he gets a offensive rebound, he tries to tip the ball in too often when he could either a) have a put back dunk or b) catch the ball and go back up to either finish with authority or get fouled at least.

I like that you go out on a limb. that's all i like from your post.

a single game of 11 boards against a team who is without their best rebounder does not "improved" make. at best it is a statistical anomaly.

and the reason for the lack of finishing authority is the fact that robin just isn't that athletic. he doesn't have hops. i've said it from the beginning but everyone here wanted to ride along with the pundits and front office who kept touting him as athletic. is he more athletic than brooks? perhaps a bit. but that's not athletic. robin gets his shot blocked more than any 7-footer i can remember in recent memory. part of it is b/c he's timid offensively, but more of that is attributable to his lack of athleticism.