Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

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Krangodnzr

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Hold up - are you really insinuating that Dobbs was going to be the 2nd string QB in Cleveland? Lol, nobody is making that argument anywhere. He had already been passed by DTR! If you're not aware of the most basics here, what are we doing?
I don't have to "insinuate". He was named the backup QB. You can ignore actual news stories. I don't know, go check to see if OAN backs up your claim, but the actual media reported a clip of Stefanski naming Dobbs the back up.
Krang - I've seen them both play. They are both career backups in the NFL. The difference between the two is minimal, and certainly not worth the cost of a 5th round pick. I showed you a direct comparison of their actual performances so far in the NFL - basically the Spiderman meme.
You must have a lot of time on your hands to watch Dobbs play.

This type of situation plays out every year where a team trades for a player because he has actual experience and knowledge of an NFL system.
4th round pedigree? lol. By that logic Tune should be best of show. Dude was a FA and offered 1.5m. Browns found a better option in the draft and immediately dumped him. Pedigree. Incredible.
Right...right after he beat out DTR. I'm walking into bizarro land where that didn't actually happen.
You're paying real assets for crap on a glass plate instead of paper. Good GM'ing!
A fifth rounder is a real asset?? Go back to 2019 and tell me how many of those fifth rounders are still on an NFL roster. I'll wait. Last I checked, fifth rounders have a sub 15% hit rate, and by hit, I mean sticks on NFL rosters long term, and of that 15%, most aren't even on the same team that drafted them.
 

OmahaCardsFan

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Didn't we just trade spots with Cleveland? We gave a 5th and we got their 7th. Is that a huge difference in a hit on player that is in the 200th range of overall selection? We traded the trade difference for a backup QB. While i don't care for the trade, did we really lose a lot of draft capital there? Personally i don't think so. We will still draft a developmental player in the 7th instead of the 5th next year and we get a backup QB that knows the system and the OC?

Look... We are going to lose anyway. Maybe having a QB that isn't a rookie that needs to develop and isn't a noodle arm like McCoy and can run the system (Assuming here :) ) might make us give the illusion that we aren't trying to tank it. wink wink. We still have to try to develop the rest of the offensive positions anyway and i don't want to ever see blough throw the ball into the dirt in front of an open receiver ever again. :)
 
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RON_IN_OC

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We have a probowler and a tantalizing late round rookie prospect

I don't really care - nor do I want to know who's better out of Dobbs and Blough - and I hope we never find out
I'll probably have to duck and cover, but I'll go on record that if Colt doesn't have a good showing this weekend, Dobbs will be the week 1 starter. It won't be Tune going into Washington to make his 1st NFL start.
 

PDXChris

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Of the 3 trades, I like this one the least. I would have preferred to see what he could do on the secondary. It supposedly a lost season, so why not.
 
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Chopper0080

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Fake news.


Brissett who is universally considered one of the best backup QBs in the league.

Not many, but if our speculation that the team thinks McCoy might be done, it's a much more palatable move to have Dobbs than Tune or Blough to start.
If I was trying to generate value for a player I wanted to get rid of, the first thing I would do is name that player a backup at a time where I would not be held to it at all.
 
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Chopper0080

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This idea that Stefanski, who is likely coaching for his job this year, would get rid of a better player at the backup QB position for a 5th round pick, which people on here assert has little value, is an interesting line of thinking.
 

BritCard

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So is your boy Zaven Collins a bust?

No. He's been far better than Simmons has been. More importantly he looks like a football player. Simmons always looked like a track guy in pads.

Are you seriously arguing Simmons hasn't been a bust? He gave up 83% of his targets last year. He gave up the 8th most receptions in the league. He's possibly the worst cover player I've even seen.

If Simmons was on another team you would give up more than a 7th to get him?
 
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Chopper0080

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No. He's been far better than Simmons has been. More importantly he looks like a football player. Simmons always looked like a track guy in pads.

Are you seriously arguing Simmons hasn't been a bust? He gave up 83% of his targets last year. He gave up the 8th most receptions in the league. He's possibly the worst cover player I've even seen.

If Simmons was on another team you would give up more than a 7th to get him?
If I thought the team he was on was completely incompetent I probably would.

If I am the Giants, all I am doing to putting him on special teams and as a stand up rusher on 3rd and long downs. That is worth a 7th rounder to me. He is a 10-15 defensive snaps a game guy unless he shows more as the season goes along.
 

BritCard

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If I was trying to generate value for a player I wanted to get rid of, the first thing I would do is name that player a backup at a time where I would not be held to it at all.

This idea that Stefanski, who is likely coaching for his job this year, would get rid of a better player at the backup QB position for a 5th round pick, which people on here assert has little value, is an interesting line of thinking.

Come on man.

So Stefanski named Dobbs as the backup and cut Mond just to extract some more trade value? Then had to call Mond up and get him back. Even though Dobbs has been starting with the 2's all preseason?

If your backup QB is starting then Stefanski likely isn't coaching for his job. He'd likely get a pass. As he would for last year after being handed a QB with a 10 game suspension.

Also likely had zero to do with Stefanski and was more that Berry liked a 5th + DTR more than keeping Dobbs.
 
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Chopper0080

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Come on man. This is silly.

So Stefanski named Dobbs as the backup and cut Mond just to extract some more trade value? Then had to call Mond up and get him back. Even though Dobbs has been starting with the 2's all preseason?

If your backup QB is starting then Stefanski likely isn't coaching for his job. He'd likely get a pass. As he would for last year after being handed a QB with a 10 game suspension.

Also likely had zero to do with Stefanski and was more that Berry liked a 5th + DTR more than keeping Dobbs.
It is business and it is how the game is played. No coach is beholden to anything they say right now or who is "#2". If you name Dobbs #3 QB when most teams only keep 2 on their 53 man roster, no one is going to offer you anything and you have to cut him or keep three QBs.
 

BritCard

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If I thought the team he was on was completely incompetent I probably would.

If I am the Giants, all I am doing to putting him on special teams and as a stand up rusher on 3rd and long downs. That is worth a 7th rounder to me. He is a 10-15 defensive snaps a game guy unless he shows more as the season goes along.

It is worth a 7th rounder. Not much more. Maybe you get a conditional 6th if you're lucky. But people are dreaming if they think more was possible.

The old staff couldn't get anything out of him. The new staff didn't like what they saw so much they wanted to move him. Maybe we should trust their judgement considering they have seen far more than us?
 

BritCard

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It is business and it is how the game is played. No coach is beholden to anything they say right now or who is "#2". If you name Dobbs #3 QB when most teams only keep 2 on their 53 man roster, no one is going to offer you anything and you have to cut him or keep three QBs.

Yet he's been #2 all preseason.

Maybe he was just #2 and it wasn't some convoluted plan that involved cutting Mond so they could squeeze a 5th out of the Cards because it fits your "Cards suck" narrative.

In fact, I'd bet my house on it considering they had absolutely no reason to cut Mond early if it was all a ruse.
 

kerouac9

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No. He's been far better than Simmons has been. More importantly he looks like a football player. Simmons always looked like a track guy in pads.

Are you seriously arguing Simmons hasn't been a bust? He gave up 83% of his targets last year. He gave up the 8th most receptions in the league. He's possibly the worst cover player I've even seen.

If Simmons was on another team you would give up more than a 7th to get him?

LOL! I obviously have a more restrictive definition of "bust" than you do. That's fine. Let's work with your definition as it applies to Zaven Collins:

BritCard said:
The definition of a bust pick is a guy that was picked 8th in 2020 that

16th overall in the 2021 draft, but we're on the same wavelength here

BritCard said:
going into year 3 is changing position because he sucked at LB

Check

BritCard said:
and in 2 preseason games (and through camp apparently) has also sucked at safety.

Does sucking at Edge count? Probably?

FWIW, I don't think either are busts, but both are absolutely disappointments.

It is worth a 7th rounder. Not much more. Maybe you get a conditional 6th if you're lucky. But people are dreaming if they think more was possible.

The old staff couldn't get anything out of him. The new staff didn't like what they saw so much they wanted to move him. Maybe we should trust their judgement considering they have seen far more than us?

Cherry pick all the stats you want. Obviously Simmons has given more than "nothing" to the team. The argument isn't really that the front office could've gotten more from him (although maybe! We don't know). The argument is that Simmons provided more value from an entertainment and competitive perspective playing the same 81% of defensive snaps he did last year, mostly in the secondary, and contributing another 2 INTs, 7 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, and 4 sacks.

Does that add up to an additional win? Probably not. But aren't wins Actually Bad now?
 

Krangodnzr

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This idea that Stefanski, who is likely coaching for his job this year, would get rid of a better player at the backup QB position for a 5th round pick, which people on here assert has little value, is an interesting line of thinking.
Not if you have two players close in value.
 

Krangodnzr

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Yet he's been #2 all preseason.

Maybe he was just #2 and it wasn't some convoluted plan that involved cutting Mond so they could squeeze a 5th out of the Cards because it fits your "Cards suck" narrative.

In fact, I'd bet my house on it considering they had absolutely no reason to cut Mond early if it was all a ruse.
You're not going to convince him, even though all the evidence points to him being wrong on this matter.
 

QuebecCard

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If I thought the team he was on was completely incompetent I probably would.

If I am the Giants, all I am doing to putting him on special teams and as a stand up rusher on 3rd and long downs. That is worth a 7th rounder to me. He is a 10-15 defensive snaps a game guy unless he shows more as the season goes along.

Good to know that we already have that guy - Mijai Sanders.
 

CardsFan88

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You may be the only person on the planet who thought the Cardinals were attempting a quick turnaround.

There are thousands of posts on this board about how they're "tearing everything down to the studs", and yours is the first I've seen to express surprise that they're not really attempting a quick turnaround. Not sure where you could've possibly got that idea or how anyone can be surprised at this point. :shrug:

How could you possibly question whether the front office "recognizes" that they're doing a complete rebuild? Have they made one single solitary move that's clearly intended to add talent immediately so they can compete this season?!

The only thing I've seen people question is whether they're tearing things down too far and not making moves to compete NEXT season. The consensus seems to be that at the rate they're going the team won't compete until 2025.

I am truly baffled by your reaction!
Thinking?
That's what they were selling. I never said I bought it. But there's a long way between 'quick turnaround' and tearing down to the studs, and then a few months later, replacing some of the studs after you painted them. (or attached drywall to them)

MB professed it. Did he believe it?

Who is saying this season? Most decisions they make keep extending the clock. Pointing that out is important to keep track of.

You are also being facetious when you expect them to have a plan that is long-term, yet they keep contradicting that plan with their moves. It's like you're ignoring it, and then saying it's baffling. That's baffling. Everything seems ad-hoc. More of a general direction that keeps leading us down so far in terms of talent.

When you pay a bonus only to get rid of the guy, that's not part of the plan. I was questioning if they even have a coherent plan when there have already been multiple contradictions in the follow-through of a plan.

They keep getting rid of guys with talent, lots or marginal, with 2-4 years of experience. Guys who are about to enter their prime.
At the end, you make my point entirely. 2025, if we're lucky.

The board has been stating they don't believe it's a quick turnaround and yes, whether it's 2024 or 2025. I see us keep stumbling so whatever the plan was, it's being pushed back. I hope this doesn't continue to 2026, etc.

But overall I questioned what they told MB to get hired. What plan would get them hired over the rest when now we can see it's to gut our roster of this talent? That's baffling.

Overall I don't need to list all the questionable acts as proof to question the soundness of the plan. We may get there, but right now, it would be dishonest to pretend that we haven't been suffering a lot of unforced error setbacks so far in its implementation.

There should be no comparison made between Reddick & Simmons. We did manage to find the right position for Reddick to play AND excel at. No one has found that one position for Simmons, and it‘s highly unlikely that anyone will.
We didn't exactly find it. We came back around to it and then let him leave for a washed-up Suggs. If anyone can get Simmons to be a contributor at a position, especially at a position we switched him from or never tried, the comparison holds. It was never a 1:1 comparison, but I didn't state that it was. Again, the point is, that we mismanaged Reddick just like we might have mismanaged Simmons. Not just Keim, but with the move to safety, Monti/Gannon. It might not end up a huge bonehead move, but it's decently likely we lost a contributor, and about near certainty that we lost a guy who belonged on our roster at some position.

It appears there is interest in him from pundits and professionals around the league. I even came across an article from the Chargers orbit that suggested they might be able to steal Simmons. He's flashed. I don't know why people seem to proffer that he has no chance to resurrect his career at a place that might be better run than here.

The new regime Monti/Gannon didn't even try him back at where he was nor did they try him as a blitzer. They just cut bait.

 
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daves

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You mean like this regime did with Hopkins, Murphy, and Allen?
Dunno why people keep lamenting Ossenfort "losing" Murphy and Allen. They were free agents*, with no more ties to the Cardinals than any other team. In fact, Allen had more ties to Denver since Joseph is their DC. The blame for "losing" Murphy and Allen falls 100% on the Keim regime for not re-signing them before they hit free agency.

* Yes I know Ossenfort had about two months between being hired and the start of free agency, but he had zero leverage to keep Murphy and Allen from hitting free agency. They had zero reason to re-sign with Arizona at that point, so they were effectively in every way free agents.
 

daves

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You may be the only person on the planet who thought the Cardinals were attempting a quick turnaround. .... Have they made one single solitary move that's clearly intended to add talent immediately so they can compete this season?!

They literally did yesterday. Giving up a 5th rounder in the misguided belief that Dobbs is significantly better then what they have.
Heh, @CardsFan88's post came before that move, and I replied before I learned of it. I thought about editing my post, because the trade for Dobbs is the first move they've made all offseason that trades future assets for someone who, presumably, they think can help them win more this season... but then again, most people here doubt that this move will help them win more this season.

Thus, it's just a weird move, not one that contradicts the theme, which has been obvious since day one despite anything Bidwill has said, that they're tearing things down and NOT attempting a quick turnaround.
 
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