Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

[Goldfield]

Simmons' base salary is $1.01 million this year. It's nothing, even in a rollover.

BUT -- Michael cut him a check for nearly $2.5 million roster bonus three weeks ago. LOL!

Created $5.5 million in dead cap money to "save" $1 million.

Wow

 

[CardsFan88]

Heh, @CardsFan88's post came before that move, and I replied before I learned of it. I thought about editing my post, because the trade for Dobbs is the first move they've made all offseason that trades future assets for someone who, presumably, they think can help them win more this season... but then again, most people here doubt that this move will help them win more this season.

Thus, it's just a weird move, not one that contradicts the theme, which has been obvious since day one despite anything Bidwill has said, that they're tearing things down and NOT attempting a quick turnaround.

I just saw those comments and missed the add talent portion (kinda in a hurry).

But you're right, they added Dobbs. Does that mean recent rumors of Murray not being ready perhaps the whole season are true? Who knows. But McCoy looks done, and I think it's more about removing the risk that we are at a level of historical suckage on offense. We need a QB with a pulse that isn't a rookie.

The move itself seems more ad hoc.

To be fair, I'd be more concerned if they are making these mistakes next offseason as compared to this one, but I guess I had hoped that we hired a GM and coach that analyzed our roster and actually had a plan, even if was a longer term one.

Still, it was a wise move to make a trade considering Mike McCoy was fired pretty quickly after six games in his first season and Wilks was out after one season when there was complete ineptitude.

 

[BirdGangThing]

.

Simmons' base salary is $1.01 million this year. It's nothing, even in a rollover.

BUT -- Michael cut him a check for nearly $2.5 million roster bonus three weeks ago. LOL!

Created $5.5 million in dead cap money to "save" $1 million.

This kinda suggests there's more to this story imo - I'm not saying he was good enough to keep or bad enough to trade - I'm saying something may have changed or occurred in between now and three weeks ago

 

[PJ1]

Come on man.

So Stefanski named Dobbs as the backup and cut Mond just to extract some more trade value? Then had to call Mond up and get him back. Even though Dobbs has been starting with the 2's all preseason?

If your backup QB is starting then Stefanski likely isn't coaching for his job. He'd likely get a pass. As he would for last year after being handed a QB with a 10 game suspension.

Also likely had zero to do with Stefanski and was more that Berry liked a 5th + DTR more than keeping Dobbs.

Come on man.

So Stefanski named Dobbs as the backup and cut Mond just to extract some more trade value? Then had to call Mond up and get him back. Even though Dobbs has been starting with the 2's all preseason?

If your backup QB is starting then Stefanski likely isn't coaching for his job. He'd likely get a pass. As he would for last year after being handed a QB with a 10 game suspension.

Also likely had zero to do with Stefanski and was more that Berry liked a 5th + DTR more than keeping Dobbs.

Dobbs has played in one of three preseason games. 8-16 with 37.8 rating. DTR has played in all three with an impressive 100+ rating. He has created buzz to say the least. Easy to see what the Browns did.

 

[PACardsFan]

Thinking?
That's what they were selling. I never said I bought it. But there's a long way between 'quick turnaround' and tearing down to the studs, and then a few months later, replacing some of the studs after you painted them. (or attached drywall to them)

MB professed it. Did he believe it?

Who is saying this season? Most decisions they make keep extending the clock. Pointing that out is important to keep track of.

You are also being facetious when you expect them to have a plan that is long-term, yet they keep contradicting that plan with their moves. It's like you're ignoring it, and then saying it's baffling. That's baffling. Everything seems ad-hoc. More of a general direction that keeps leading us down so far in terms of talent.

When you pay a bonus only to get rid of the guy, that's not part of the plan. I was questioning if they even have a coherent plan when there have already been multiple contradictions in the follow-through of a plan.

They keep getting rid of guys with talent, lots or marginal, with 2-4 years of experience. Guys who are about to enter their prime.
At the end, you make my point entirely. 2025, if we're lucky.

The board has been stating they don't believe it's a quick turnaround and yes, whether it's 2024 or 2025. I see us keep stumbling so whatever the plan was, it's being pushed back. I hope this doesn't continue to 2026, etc.

But overall I questioned what they told MB to get hired. What plan would get them hired over the rest when now we can see it's to gut our roster of this talent? That's baffling.

Overall I don't need to list all the questionable acts as proof to question the soundness of the plan. We may get there, but right now, it would be dishonest to pretend that we haven't been suffering a lot of unforced error setbacks so far in its implementation.


We didn't exactly find it. We came back around to it and then let him leave for a washed-up Suggs. If anyone can get Simmons to be a contributor at a position, especially at a position we switched him from or never tried, the comparison holds. It was never a 1:1 comparison, but I didn't state that it was. Again, the point is, that we mismanaged Reddick just like we might have mismanaged Simmons. Not just Keim, but with the move to safety, Monti/Gannon. It might not end up a huge bonehead move, but it's decently likely we lost a contributor, and about near certainty that we lost a guy who belonged on our roster at some position.

It appears there is interest in him from pundits and professionals around the league. I even came across an article from the Chargers orbit that suggested they might be able to steal Simmons. He's flashed. I don't know why people seem to proffer that he has no chance to resurrect his career at a place that might be better run than here.

The new regime Monti/Gannon didn't even try him back at where he was nor did they try him as a blitzer. They just cut bait.

Could the Chargers steal Isaiah Simmons amidst the Cardinals rebuild?

Tom Telesco still has opportunities to make 2023 an "all-In" season if he’s willing to adapt.

www.boltsfromtheblue.com

You’re forgetting that it was SIMMONS who went to JG and asked to spend ALL his time as a defensive back. The Cardinals did not make that change, Simmons did. No one wanted Simmons to succeed as much as I did, but even you have to admit that he was the perfect definition of “Jack of all trades & master of none”.

 

[CardsFan88]

You’re forgetting that it was SIMMONS who went to JG and asked to spend ALL his time as a defensive back. The Cardinals did not make that change, Simmons did. No one wanted Simmons to succeed as much as I did, but even you have to admit that he was the perfect definition of “Jack of all trades & master of none”.

I can't forget that because I don't remember hearing that, so my bad. But as you know, the coaches had ultimate authority on how and where he plays and if his desire isn't working, switch it up.

I agree to the jack of all trades. But right now we rolling with a lot of fours on the roster. I'll take a young jack. (I know I shouldn't mix the metaphors)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No holding onto him is. Realizing he is a sunk cost and moving on is avoiding the sunk cost fallacy.

Not even soft balls here. Wiffle balls.

You do know that a soft ball is like 2000% easier to hit than a wiffle ball, right?

 

[BritCard]

Dobbs has played in one of three preseason games. 8-16 with 37.8 rating. DTR has played in all three with an impressive 100+ rating. He has created buzz to say the least. Easy to see what the Browns did.

Yeah they gave Dobbs a fully guaranteed $2m contract in March because he wasn't going to be the #2...

 

[schutd]

You think they care about what the media is saying? I'd say they care more about what is said in the locker room.

If you dont think what the media is saying doesnt affect the bottom line, youre not a business owner. ANyone who says "They dont care" is lying, or naive.

 

[schutd]

Personally, I think this was another situation Monti handled poorly in terms of timing, similar to Hopkins. In both instances Monti has said that the decisions were not snap decisions, and also in both situations Monti missed the window that would have given the team the best chance to get value.

If you are trying to trade an expensive, vet WR, you do so when teams have the most money available, and not after they have spent it

If you are trying to trade a non-traditional player who is a high level athlete, you don't wait a month into camp after teams have already invested time and energy into their roster. You want to move him when teams feel they have time to figure out how to use him and see him in their systems.

I agree with all of this, but isnt there a scenario, where, even as a highly paid NFL executive, you roll the dice on a guy and try to find a way to salvage him? The reality is paying a couple mil to keep a guy around who in his career to that point had been a series of high praise followed by accusations of misuse, flashy splash plays, and a lot of head scratching plays as well. the 2M doesnt mean squat comparatively. We laymen use a couple mil as a barometer in our judgement of the front office, but really, who cares? Its peanuts to these guys.

Surely its reasonable to expect them to give one final swing for the fences with an athletic, top 10 pick, 2 million be damned? The timing of that is just a result of the effort.

Either way, I think its pretty clear he was NEVER going to live up to expectations, and the effort last saturday was the cherry on top. See ya.

 

[schutd]

The most hilarious part of all of this is Simmons is exactly the kind of player we should be targeting...highly thought of, bad team potentially misused him, low cost high reward options.

Instead we've given up pretty much all of our promising young talent with little to nothing in return. Murphy/Simmons/Allen/Jones...this isn't tearing down down to the studs, it's nuking the jobsite for reasons.

I'm still waiting for when and how we plan on replenishing talent, outside of near perfect drafting at this point.

Doesn't every team, good and bad, have these situations? We did exactly what you propose with LJ Collier, right?

 

[slanidrac16]

This is like arguing who’s going to get the last broken chips in the bottom of the bag.
There are unknown factors here that we will eventually learn. Fit, ability, attitude and aptitude are all a part of trading some of these guys and getting Dobbs.
I know it’s highly unlikely but I’d love to the Monday morning posts should Dobbs lead this team to a win going 18 or 24 with 2td’s and no picks. MO will be deemed a genius…. Until next week when Dobbs throws 3 picks in a blowout loss.
Bottom line, we don’t know a lot of what’s going on behind close doors yet.

 

[pemory09]

Simmons' base salary is $1.01 million this year. It's nothing, even in a rollover.

BUT -- Michael cut him a check for nearly $2.5 million roster bonus three weeks ago. LOL!

Created $5.5 million in dead cap money to "save" $1 million.

The Cardinal Way.

 

[Garthshort]

.

This kinda suggests there's more to this story imo - I'm not saying he was good enough to keep or bad enough to trade - I'm saying something may have changed or occurred in between now and three weeks ago

Possibly his lack of EFFORT in the KC game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You do know that a soft ball is like 2000% easier to hit than a wiffle ball, right?

Maybe I should say T-ball then? Either way it's faulty logic of the negativity bias variety. Simmons is like the infielder who hits really well, but is so bad on defense that he is unplayable. In football there is no DH so he will always be a flawed player. I won't say he's a terrible player, but if you put an absolute premium on assignment sound football, you aren't going to want to live with Simmons mistakes.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Possibly his lack of EFFORT in the KC game.

I doubt it was just the preseason game. I think the preseason game showed a preview of what teams were going to be able to get away with doing to Simmons. If a receiver puts a double move on Simmons he is toast.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree with all of this, but isnt there a scenario, where, even as a highly paid NFL executive, you roll the dice on a guy and try to find a way to salvage him? The reality is paying a couple mil to keep a guy around who in his career to that point had been a series of high praise followed by accusations of misuse, flashy splash plays, and a lot of head scratching plays as well. the 2M doesnt mean squat comparatively. We laymen use a couple mil as a barometer in our judgement of the front office, but really, who cares? Its peanuts to these guys.

Surely its reasonable to expect them to give one final swing for the fences with an athletic, top 10 pick, 2 million be damned? The timing of that is just a result of the effort.

Either way, I think its pretty clear he was NEVER going to live up to expectations, and the effort last saturday was the cherry on top. See ya.

The problem with his logic is that every bit of evidence clearly demonstrates that the Cardinals didn't trade Simmons on a whim, and tried to make the situation work in earnest.

Timing be damned in situations like this, you really have to weigh all of the evidence with a player like Simmons. As fans we have 1/1000 of the information that an NFL team has. In some of these situations, it's like the NFL version of the Dunning-Krueger effect, where you'll see fans criticize teams without any understanding of how little actual information that they have.

 

[PJ1]

Yeah they gave Dobbs a fully guaranteed $2m contract in March because he wasn't going to be the #2...

Yeah and then they got rid of him. You said he played through the preseason with the seconds. He barely played at all. And was outplayed badly by the guy they kept.

 

[Garthshort]

Yeah and then they got rid of him. You said he played through the preseason with the seconds. He barely played at all. And was outplayed badly by the guy they kept.

I read that they had him as their #2 QB behind Watson.

 

[PJ1]

I read that they had him as their #2 QB behind Watson.

They did say that and then traded Dobbs and kept DTR because they liked him better. Look at the stats in preseason. They kept the guy they liked better and got something for Dobbs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't have to "insinuate". He was named the backup QB. You can ignore actual news stories. I don't know, go check to see if OAN backs up your claim, but the actual media reported a clip of Stefanski naming Dobbs the back up.

You must have a lot of time on your hands to watch Dobbs play.

This type of situation plays out every year where a team trades for a player because he has actual experience and knowledge of an NFL system.

Right...right after he beat out DTR. I'm walking into bizarro land where that didn't actually happen.

A fifth rounder is a real asset?? Go back to 2019 and tell me how many of those fifth rounders are still on an NFL roster. I'll wait. Last I checked, fifth rounders have a sub 15% hit rate, and by hit, I mean sticks on NFL rosters long term, and of that 15%, most aren't even on the same team that drafted them.

This post is fraught with hypocritical concepts. You keep touting dobbs being named 2nd string but then want to ignore the fact he was immediately traded for what you state here isn’t a “real asset.” In other words they thought so highly of him as a backup that they gave him away to go with the other guy. If this were the cards you 100% would be saying “why did they trade that bum away? Because they decided the rookie was the backup.”

 

[football karma]

Simmons' base salary is $1.01 million this year. It's nothing, even in a rollover.

BUT -- Michael cut him a check for nearly $2.5 million roster bonus three weeks ago. LOL!

Created $5.5 million in dead cap money to "save" $1 million.

the staff /FO had to be surprised by what a liability in coverage Simmons was in the new role (which is the same as the old role)

The org feels cash constrained right now. In that environment:

if they knew at the beginning of camp that Simmons wasn't likely to make the final roster, you dont cut a $2.5mm check

 

[BulldogCard]

Sounds like they're pushing Tune with this move.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This post is fraught with hypocritical concepts. You keep touting dobbs being named 2nd string but then want to ignore the fact he was immediately traded for what you state here isn’t a “real asset.”

Right...maybe if you didn't laser focus on trying to tear down an argument, and instead looked at the nuance, you would see that I said Dobbs won but it was close. So what happens when a team offers an asset in that situation? You trade the more expensive veteran and take the draft pick.

In other words they thought so highly of him as a backup that they gave him away to go with the other guy. If this were the cards you 100% would be saying “why did they trade that bum away? Because they decided the rookie was the backup.”

Dobbs is on a one year deal and more expensive. Jeebus man, don't make refuting these points so easy. This is th exact same logic to a degree with the Beachum vs. Jones, with the only difference is that Beachum is older. Take the asset and be happy you got something for a player that won't be around too long and you can fill the spot with a cheaper player.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah they gave Dobbs a fully guaranteed $2m contract in March because he wasn't going to be the #2...

Is he the #2 today? Case closed.