Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

[dreamcastrocks]

Please stop saying Simmons “has all the tools”.

He doesn’t.

He’s super stiff in his lower body & can’t flip his hips because of it. Which, in turn, makes him a MASSIVE liability in coverage against anyone that isn’t running a vertical route.

He is only straight line fast. That’s not having all the tools.

Please stop telling people what they should or shouldn't say. It is against the rules.

It is pretty rude to just discount people's opinions like that.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

if it makes anybody feel any better:

that 2020 1st round draft isnt turning out well for most

start at 8 and go down:

some clear winners-- Wirfs, Justin Jefferson, AJ Terrel, Jedrick Wills, CD Lamb

but many disappointments in the next 24 picks or so

premium position theory would have had the Cards taking Wirfs, Wills, Terrel... or CJ Henderson

I'd argue that RT isn't a premium position.

 

[QuebecCard]

Please stop telling people what they should or shouldn't say. It is against the rules.

It is pretty rude to just discount people's opinions like that.

Having 'all the tools' is not simply an opinion; it's either a fact or it isn't.

DVontel believes that he doesn't and there's a lot of tape in factual support.

 

[QuebecCard]

I'd argue that RT isn't a premium position.

It is in today's NFL.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Having 'all the tools' is not simply an opinion; it's either a fact or it isn't.

DVontel believes that he doesn't and there's a lot of tape in factual support.

Whether you believe he has the tools or not IS an opinion. It is quite impossible to prove as a fact, even if you wanted to call it that.

Besides, it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing is against the rules.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It is in today's NFL.

It is debatable.

 

[BritCard]

Please stop saying Simmons “has all the tools”.

He doesn’t.

He’s super stiff in his lower body & can’t flip his hips because of it. Which, in turn, makes him a MASSIVE liability in coverage against anyone that isn’t running a vertical route.

He is only straight line fast. That’s not having all the tools.

Worse coverage player I've ever seen in a backfield.

I watched Cam Thomas cover a TE on Saturday and even he was better.

We now know why he didn't run any of the agility tests at the combine.

 

[DVontel]

Please stop telling people what they should or shouldn't say. It is against the rules.

It is pretty rude to just discount people's opinions like that.

That’s why I was nice with it & added the “please”.

 

[BritCard]

Whether you believe he has the tools or not IS an opinion. It is quite impossible to prove as a fact, even if you wanted to call it that.

Besides, it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing is against the rules.

I would argue that giving up 83% of passes he was targeted on while also giving up the 8th most receptions in the league means he's definitely missing some tools.

In my opinion...

 

[QuebecCard]

Whether you believe he has the tools or not IS an opinion. It is quite impossible to prove as a fact, even if you wanted to call it that.

Besides, it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing is against the rules.

What is the Combine about if not to establish whether player 'X' has the actual tools?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would argue that giving up 83% of passes he was targeted on while also giving up the 8th most receptions in the league means he's definitely missing some tools.

In my opinion...

You could easily argue he is missing tools, no question.

To tell people to stop posting their opinion? Not allowed and will not be tolerated.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Simmons and his 4 sacks and 4 total QB hits were the most successful on the Cardinals in 2022?

Who had 12.5 sacks and 25 QB hits?

What a specious argument. They were talking about players Left on the actual roster. I mean… you’ve been following the conversation, right?

 

[Chopper0080]

Why? Why would anyone do that or think they did that? Surely that's just your completely negative opinion of the Org clouding your judgement?

There's no logic in doing that. Monti does not seem like an emotional guy. If he decided that Simmons would done any sensible person would shop for the best deal.

Even you or I would do that. So why wouldn't an experienced NFL exec?

Apparently they randomly called up Cleveland for Dobbs after a week of bad practices by McCoy. (which means they had discussed the potential of entering the season without McCoy at some point this offseason)

I am sure Monti and Gannon had spoken similarly about Simmons. I am sure the Giants had expressed some interest in Simmons at some point (hey, if you consider moving on from him, gives us a call). So, after looking really bad vs KC they give the Giants a call, Giants offer a 7th, and it is done.

 

[BritCard]

Apparently they randomly called up Cleveland for Dobbs after a week of bad practices by McCoy. (which means they had discussed the potential of entering the season without McCoy at some point this offseason)

I am sure Monti and Gannon had spoken similarly about Simmons. I am sure the Giants had expressed some interest in Simmons at some point (hey, if you consider moving on from him, gives us a call). So, after looking really bad vs KC they give the Giants a call, Giants offer a 7th, and it is done.

They didn't randomly call about Dobbs. They tried to sign him in March and Petzing knows him. What the Brown's said is "the call came out of the blue". That's just phrasing. Every call comes out of the blue, what are you supposed to do? Text first?

If you know the Giants have interest you phone them, see what they offer, and then phone everyone else to try get more.

For what you think happened to happen the entire FO would have to be both lazy and stupid.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They didn't randomly call about Dobbs. They tried to sign him in March and Petzing knows him. What the Brown's said is "the call came out of the blue". That's just phrasing. Every call comes out of the blue, what are you supposed to do? Text first?

If you know the Giants have interest you phone them, see what they offer, and then phone everyone else to try get more.

For what you think happened to happen the entire FO would have to be both lazy and stupid.

Lazy, like breaking the most basic of rules regarding communication with a potential coach during the postseason?

Nah, impossible.

 

[Chopper0080]

They didn't randomly call about Dobbs. They tried to sign him in March and Petzing knows him. What the Brown's said is "the call came out of the blue". That's just phrasing. Every call comes out of the blue, what are you supposed to do? Text first?

If you know the Giants have interest you phone them, see what they offer, and then phone everyone else to try get more.

For what you think happened to happen the entire FO would have to be both lazy and stupid.

Trying to hammer out phrasing differences of "Out of the blue" and "randomly" seems odd to me but whatever. So, just like they called Cleveland "out of the blue", I believe it is very plausible they called the Giants "out of the blue" about Simmons. Again, my guess is the Giants had previously inquired about Simmons.

I disagree on the lazy and stupid. My guess is there wasn't a significant amount of interest from multiple teams prior, and once they decided to move on from him they just took what they could get. I don't believe they were interested in spending a significant amount of time searching to try to get a minimal amount more.

Like I admitted, there is no way we will know unless something is reported.

 

[BritCard]

I disagree on the lazy and stupid. My guess is there wasn't a significant amount of interest from multiple teams prior, and once they decided to move on from him they just took what they could get. I don't believe they were interested in spending a significant amount of time searching to try to get a minimal amount more.

While I don't think this true (it's not a significant amount of time, it's a bunch of low level FO guys hitting the phone for an hour) but if it is why so butt hurt about the trade for a 7th?

If the options were a "minimal amount more" what does it matter?

You want to keep him? And have a guy in a contract year grumbling in the locker room that he isn't getting playing time?

 

[Chopper0080]

While I don't think this true (it's not a significant amount of time, it's a bunch of low level FO guys hitting the phone for an hour) but if it is why so butt hurt about the trade for a 7th?

If the options were a "minimal amount more" what does it matter?

You want to keep him? And have a guy in a contract year grumbling in the locker room that he isn't getting playing time?

Just like I feel the Giants could get value out of him as a situational pass rusher worth more than a 7th round pick, I thought the Cardinals could do the same if they wanted to. I have said previously in here that I thought they waited too long and sold at his lowest value. I never got the impression from the org they were interested in finding a way to make him work so I don't like that they waited so long to move him.

Again, I feel like we have went down this road previously in this thread, but you asked and so I felt it would be polite to answer.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Just like I feel the Giants could get value out of him as a situational pass rusher worth more than a 7th round pick, I thought the Cardinals could do the same if they wanted to. I have said previously in here that I thought they waited too long and sold at his lowest value. I never got the impression from the org they were interested in finding a way to make him work so I don't like that they waited so long to move him.

Again, I feel like we have went down this road previously in this thread, but you asked and so I felt it would be polite to answer.

As silly as this sounds, I think with top ten picks you exhaust all chances to make them be great players. It certainly was embarrassing for the Cardinals to trade him for a 7th round pick, but you can't say they didn't try him at a litany of positions.

He just wasn't really all that good at any of them, and he even asked to be tried at safety. I have my doubts about how effective he will be on edge as soon as teams figure out that he really is only effective with a speed rush unblocked.

 

[CardNots]

As silly as this sounds, I think with top ten picks you exhaust all chances to make them be great players. It certainly was embarrassing for the Cardinals to trade him for a 7th round pick, but you can't say they didn't try him at a litany of positions.

He just wasn't really all that good at any of them, and he even asked to be tried at safety. I have my doubts about how effective he will be on edge as soon as teams figure out that he really is only effective with a speed rush unblocked.

After this year the market will determine his true value.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Even if that was the case, you really think that HE thinks that Dobb's is the difference?

If they lose Watson they aren't making the playoffs or winning a game either way. Whether it's DTR or Dobbs at QB.

If they don't make the playoffs with Watson then yeah, his job might be on the line. But if Watson is out and Dobbs is in? Nah. So why would he be concerned about holding on to Dobbs?

Plus, since when did Stefanski make these decisions? All the vitriol here is aimed at Monti for making the moves. It was Berry that made this trade, not Stefanski.

You're the one who commented that it's a myth about Stefanski's job and started touting all his attributes.
It's pretty well known in Ohio that his he needs to make the playoffs or is gone. They feel they have a very talented team, they do, and aren't paying huge guaranteed money to Watson to be home watching the playoffs.

The GM may have a little more leash but is likely gone too. The owner, Jimmy Haslam, is not afraid to make changes in a hurry.

The fact that their jobs are on the line, and they are, the fact that they think if Watson goes down that DTR and a 5th round pick next year is a better option than Dobbs is pretty telling.

 

[BritCard]

Simmons is going to play edge update...

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[BritCard]

The fact that their jobs are on the line, and they are, the fact that they think if Watson goes down that DTR and a 5th round pick next year is a better option than Dobbs is pretty telling.

It is telling. What it tells us is that if Watson is out and any backup has to play they are screwed anyway. So it might as well be DTR and a 5th.

And if Watson is out any length of time, it's likely Stefanski gets a pass anyway. Depending on where they sit when that happens.

If the Brown's are 7-3 and Watson is done for the year no way they fire Stefanski. So Dobbs don't matter.

If the brown's are 3-7 and Watson is done for the year, Stefanski is screwed. So Dobb's don't matter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No, case pending; he's likely #1 in AZ until Tyler returns.

Not for the team we were discussing, but nice try. I now move sanctions.

 

[BritCard]

As silly as this sounds, I think with top ten picks you exhaust all chances to make them be great players. It certainly was embarrassing for the Cardinals to trade him for a 7th round pick, but you can't say they didn't try him at a litany of positions.

He just wasn't really all that good at any of them, and he even asked to be tried at safety. I have my doubts about how effective he will be on edge as soon as teams figure out that he really is only effective with a speed rush unblocked.

For me he had 0 value and will be out of the league in a couple of years. He's just bad at football. So a 7th was a bonus considering he was gone next year.

I'd rather have the 7th than Simmons stick around as a locker room cancer while he steals 150 snaps at Edge that Myjai Sanders should be getting.