Skelton is responsible for 8 of 13 wins since Warner bailed.

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

That's pretty fast and loose with "responsible."

Potayto, potahto.

So Skelton single-handily, without any assistance from the defense and special teams, led the team to 8 wins over the past two years?

I'll leave it at that


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http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2677429&postcount=16

 

[Shane]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2677429&postcount=16

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2677472&postcount=21

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Lamest leap in logic on this board in a long time.

Really? Based on what? LOL.

 

[Phrazbit]

One gets the impression there are some more vested in the failure of Kolb or Skelton than the Cards winning no matter who's at the helm.

Clearly the Skelton fans especially dont give a crap if the Cards win. The gall of them supporting a QB with a 66% career winning percentage over one who during his career has an equal chance of winning a game as he does of getting injured.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So Skelton single-handily, without any assistance from the defense and special teams, led the team to 8 wins over the past two years?

I'll leave it at that


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Is that really what you believe he said? I think the OP figured we were all smart enough to realize we were talking about the performance of one Qb vs other Qb's. As this is a team sport and nobody, EVER, has won a football game all by their lonesome, I think he thought it was safe to make that statement without fully defining every aspect of it. I guess he was wrong.

Skelton, as a QB, has been responsible for most of our recent wins. I still believe the single best thing Skelton has done the past two years is simply not be Kolb or Anderson. A good QB would have sailed through our schedule, a bad QB (Skelton) had to come alive late in games to undo the damage he'd done earlier and a horrible QB (Kolb) would simply lose the games for you.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Is that really what you believe he said? I think the OP figured we were all smart enough to realize we were talking about the performance of one Qb vs other Qb's. As this is a team sport and nobody, EVER, has won a football game all by their lonesome, I think he thought it was safe to make that statement without fully defining every aspect of it. I guess he was wrong.

Skelton, as a QB, has been responsible for most of our recent wins. I still believe the single best thing Skelton has done the past two years is simply not be Kolb or Anderson. A good QB would have sailed through our schedule, a bad QB (Skelton) had to come alive late in games to undo the damage he'd done earlier and a horrible QB (Kolb) would simply lose the games for you.

Steve

A solid breakdown.

 

[BigRedRage]

the argument of "skelton didnt win it all by him self!!!" it stupid.

Did kolb win or lose anything by himself last year? noone wins by themselves. Was Skelton instrumental in his wins? Yes. Was kolb? yes.

No skelton doesnt do it alone, yes he won way more games and has a better shot at victory.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

So Skelton single-handily, without any assistance from the defense and special teams, led the team to 8 wins over the past two years?

I'll leave it at that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So we subbed in an entirely different defense and Special teams unit when Kolb played?

I'll go ahead and leave it at that.

 

[Stout]

Proof is in the pudding and at the end of the day the NFL is about wins and losses and Skelton wins. The team simply plays better when he starts and that is because of his resiliency, toughness, and ability to keep plays alive.

He gives this team the best chance to win as currently constructed an has been the only source of any hope since Warner left.

I like Skelton for that and believe he will win at least 4 more games than Kolb will for this team.

 

[BigRedRage]

So we subbed in an entirely different defense and Special teams unit when Kolb played?

I'll go ahead and leave it at that.

nice

 

[TJ]

Is that really what you believe he said? I think the OP figured we were all smart enough to realize we were talking about the performance of one Qb vs other Qb's. As this is a team sport and nobody, EVER, has won a football game all by their lonesome, I think he thought it was safe to make that statement without fully defining every aspect of it. I guess he was wrong.

Yes. It is what the OP who has said time and time again about this subject with little substance to qualify except for "Skelton's record as a starter is 6-2" statement. The problem is the topic infers that it was Skelton and Skelton alone that was responsible for the wins. There were numerous instances when he needed much assistance from the defense and special teams to get a one-possession victory.

I think we can all agree that Skelton is not Brees, Peyton, Brady, or Rodgers. He's not talented enough to eviscerate opponents and put a team on his back while the rest of the squad is struggling.

Skelton, as a QB, has been responsible for most of our recent wins. I still believe the single best thing Skelton has done the past two years is simply not be Kolb or Anderson. A good QB would have sailed through our schedule, a bad QB (Skelton) had to come alive late in games to undo the damage he'd done earlier and a horrible QB (Kolb) would simply lose the games for you.

Steve

I give credit where credit is due. Skelton had a couple of Herculean efforts that cannot be ignored, such as the SF home game. But more often than not, it was 55 minutes of putrid offense with the defense and special teams making key 3 and outs, blocked kicks, and punt returns for TDs to keep the game manageable. This all resulted in a 10 ppg allowed reduction. It occurred coincidentally the day Skelton took over; where at the same time, Horton pared down the defensive playbook as the players appeared to be overwhelmed and confused.

I prefer to look at it this way - how many of those victories would Bartel or Kolb have "earned" if it would have been one of them starting instead of Skelton? Take into consideration that the team was a) playing a lighter schedule the second half of the season and b) the defense was allowing 10 ppg less per game. It is much easier to initiate a comeback when the opposition posted 17 points as opposed to 27. This notion was put to the test during the second half of the season when Kolb played one game vs. the Cowboys and led the team to an OT victory 19-13.

I'm not trying to say that one QB is better than the other. I'm over that conversation. Rather, I'm questioning whether or not Skelton was the catalyst for the majority of victories. I believe based on watching the second half of games that the majority of credit belongs to the defense because it figured out how to play in Horton's system. The QB who posted a 67 QB rating and a negative TD:INT, IMO, was not the difference maker.

 

[Mulli]

Yes. It is what the OP who has said time and time again about this subject with little substance to qualify except for "Skelton's record as a starter is 6-2" statement. The problem is the topic infers that it was Skelton and Skelton alone that was responsible for the wins. There were numerous instances when he needed much assistance from the defense and special teams to get a one-possession victory.

I think we can all agree that Skelton is not Brees, Peyton, Brady, or Rodgers. He's not talented enough to eviscerate opponents and put a team on his back while the rest of the squad is struggling.



I give credit where credit is due. Skelton had a couple of Herculean efforts that cannot be ignored, such as the SF home game. But more often than not, it was 55 minutes of putrid offense with the defense and special teams making key 3 and outs, blocked kicks, and punt returns for TDs to keep the game manageable. This all resulted in a 10 ppg allowed reduction. It occurred the day Skelton took over; where at the same time, Horton pared down the defensive playbook as the players appeared to be overwhelmed and confused.

I prefer to look at it this way - how many of those victories would Bartel or Kolb have "earned" if it would have been one of them starting instead of Skelton? Take into consideration that the team was a) playing a lighter schedule the second half of the season and b) the defense was allowing 10 ppg less per game. It is much easier to initiate a comeback when the opposition posted 17 points as opposed to 27. This notion was put to the test during the second half of the season when Kolb played one game vs. the Cowboys and led the team to an OT victory 19-13.

I'm not trying to say that one QB is better than the other. I'm over that conversation. Rather, I'm questioning whether or not Skelton was the catalyst for the majority of victories. I believe based on watching the second half of games that the majority of credit belongs to the defense because it figured out how to play in Horton's system. The QB who posted a 67 QB rating and a negative TD:INT, IMO, was not the difference maker.

eli manning!!

 

[TJ]

So we subbed in an entirely different defense and Special teams unit when Kolb played?

I'll go ahead and leave it at that.

nice

Cute, but your rhetorical question actually has truth to it.

As a matter of fact, the defensive playbook was pared down by 70% in Week 9. So for all intents and purposes, that was a new unit out there we were witnessing.

Unless somehow Skelton sneaked in a few plays at linebacker, I don't think he can take responsibility for the defense's 180 degree turnaround.

 

[TJ]

eli manning!!

Eli is known throughout the league as a 4th quarter QB, but at least he looks like a solid NFL QB for the first three quarters.

My hope is when/if Skelton is anointed the starter, he can demonstrate that he's figured out how to play 60 minutes of football.

 

[Duckjake]

I give credit where credit is due. Skelton had a couple of Herculean efforts that cannot be ignored, such as the SF home game. But more often than not, it was 55 minutes of putrid offense with the defense and special teams making key 3 and outs, blocked kicks, and punt returns for TDs to keep the game manageable. This all resulted in a 10 ppg allowed reduction. It occurred coincidentally the day Skelton took over; where at the same time, Horton pared down the defensive playbook as the players appeared to be overwhelmed and confused

.

This has been refuted numerous times. Why do people keep bringing this up?

Ironically one huge missed FG the second half of the season was in the Cowboys game where Kolb was QB and Dallas iced their own kicker.

Oh, and by the way Eli Manning only had three 4th quarter comebacks his first two seasons. Double Deuce already has 7. Eli who?

 

[PJ1]

.

This has been refuted numerous times. Why do people keep bringing this up?

Ironically one huge missed FG the second half of the season was in the Cowboys game where Kolb was QB and Dallas iced their own kicker.

Oh, and by the way Eli Manning only had three 4th quarter comebacks his first two seasons. Double Deuce already has 7. Eli who?

I watched the Dallas game again a couple of weeks ago. Kolb was absolutely horrible in the first half. Yet many point to this game to support him.

They both struggle. It is depressing to keep reading about this but can't deny it will probably kill another season.

 

[TJ]

.

This has been refuted numerous times.

If it was, it was done so unsuccessfully since the vast majority of NFL followers site the significant improvement in defense the 2nd half of the season well before they discuss John Skelton

Oh, and by the way Eli Manning only had three 4th quarter comebacks his first two seasons. Double Deuce already has 7. Eli who?

Double Deuce would trade it all for two of these:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Darkside]

Sometimes I think we'd argue over two turds, one shiny and one less shiny.

 

[PJ1]

Sometimes I think we'd argue over two turds, one shiny and one less shiny.

I think we actually are.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I got one, Skelton and Kolb are both responsible for very freaking little in any of the wins. Anything Skelton won at the end in a comeback was brought about by his own erratic play for a majority of the game till we hit the fourth quarter. Kolb just didn't make mistakes but hardly won the game on his arm when he did win. Both of these QBs are flawed in various ways. The hope is that young Skelton being from a small university will progress more. Yes, Darkside is right, we are arguing over turds. Now, if Kolb or Skelton where to beat the crap out of a team by 4 or three scores in a couple of games, THEN we can say the QB won it. The only thing we can state now is which QB was not responsible for losing it.

 

[Duckjake]

If it was, it was done so unsuccessfully since the vast majority of NFL followers site the significant improvement in defense the 2nd half of the season well before they discuss John Skelton



Double Deuce would trade it all for two of these:

You must be registered for see images attach

Give him time. Manning was in his 4th season when the Giants won the SB in 2007 and his 8th last year. And the last one was only because the refs screwed us on the fumble call. Just think. The Cards decided who won the SB last season. The Giants win because the refs botched that call and Dallas lost because they iced their own kicker. Otherwise Dallas is 9-7 and the Giants stay home at 8-8.

 

[Duckjake]

I got one, Skelton and Kolb are both responsible for very freaking little in any of the wins. Anything Skelton won at the end in a comeback was brought about by his own erratic play for a majority of the game till we hit the fourth quarter. Kolb just didn't make mistakes but hardly won the game on his arm when he did win. Both of these QBs are flawed in various ways. The hope is that young Skelton being from a small university will progress more. Yes, Darkside is right, we are arguing over turds. Now, if Kolb or Skelton where to beat the crap out of a team by 4 or three scores in a couple of games, THEN we can say the QB won it. The only thing we can state now is which QB was not responsible for losing it.

The Cards won 2 games last season where Kolb played the entire game. One on a PP21 punt return and one when Dallas iced their own kicker to send the game to overtime.

I'm sorry but anytime a QB leads six-seven 75+ yard drives to win or tie he's as responsible as anyone or group for the wins. This isn't figure skating where you get style points for how your QB plays in the first half.

But neither one is in a position to win for us now. Especially with that disaster we call an offensive line. In fact FEMA has sent a representative to Arizona to see if any Cardinal fans need federal assistance.

 

[Jetstream Green]

and actually Duckjake, that is one of the reasons I favor Kolb and it is not a reason I feel overly comfortable with since he has not done this on consistent basis. Our OL is horrible right now, meaning the whole run the ball instead approach does not seem to work either because running as well as passing the ball requires blocking.

 

[Duckjake]

and actually Duckjake, that is one of the reasons I favor Kolb and it is not a reason I feel overly comfortable with since he has not done this on consistent basis. Our OL is horrible right now, meaning the whole run the ball instead approach does not seem to work either because running as well as passing the ball requires blocking.

Just too darn similar to the Horns. Two QBs neither of whom has stood out, a pourous offensive line, solid RBs, and a top tier Defense. If only the Cards could start the season against Wyoming and New Mexico.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Is that really what you believe he said? I think the OP figured we were all smart enough to realize we were talking about the performance of one Qb vs other Qb's. As this is a team sport and nobody, EVER, has won a football game all by their lonesome, I think he thought it was safe to make that statement without fully defining every aspect of it. I guess he was wrong.

Skelton, as a QB, has been responsible for most of our recent wins. I still believe the single best thing Skelton has done the past two years is simply not be Kolb or Anderson. A good QB would have sailed through our schedule, a bad QB (Skelton) had to come alive late in games to undo the damage he'd done earlier and a horrible QB (Kolb) would simply lose the games for you.

Steve

Far too reasonable for this discussion.

Does anyone really believe that there is any chance that Kolb does enough to merit his 9 million dollar salary for next year? I'd love to hear the logic behind that one.

As that seems highly unlikely, it seems like when choosing between two bad options, you may want to choose the option that at least has potential to improve, not the one publicly called out by opponents for being scared. (and isn't one hit away from a career ending concussion)