So does that harm Matt Patricia's HC chances?

[Russ Smith]

The Pat coordinators get hired away by other teams as much for their application of BB's philosophy and understanding of the 'Patriot way' as much as anything else.

The Pats had some mediocre talent on D yet they worked the D-scheme to the SB. Their best CB was on the sid)elines (who knows why) and the game went down to the wire.

More pieces on the Lion D for Patricia than the Pats D. He should do fine if Stafford ever gets over the hump.

Why hasn't it worked for the rest of them then?

Mangini and McDaniels were supposed be brilliant guys who would win big but McDaniels got caught cheating in Denver right away, and Mangini was the guy who turned in the pats in 2007 and started the whole scandal of them cheating and taping other teams, and he did all that because he knew of and possibly participated in it, when coaching for the Pats.

FWIW, Detroit was 23rd in total defense, 21st in scoring defense, it's not clear to me they're actually that good on defense.

 

[Southpaw]

I don't think this is the narrative anymore; otherwise, Minnesota, the best defense in the NFL, should also hold its head in shame. Rather, we're seeing Nick Foles develop (or redevelop?) into a good quarterback.

The thing about this postseason, which people did not consider, is that the Eagles won playoff games and the Super Bowl because of Nick Foles, not in spite of Nick Foles.

What does Nick Foles say about Andy Reid and Chip Kelly? Andy Reid dumped him and Kelly got a very good year out of him.

 

[TJ]

What does Nick Foles say about Andy Reid and Chip Kelly? Andy Reid dumped him and Kelly got a very good year out of him.

Andy Reid also convinced Nick Foles to not retire and got him to Kansas City.

 

[JeffGollin]

Reports that Schiano going to be named DC for Pats lol

Maybe not so much LOL.

Pats seem to have more Rutgers grads on their roster, and I suspect that Belichick (as he usually does) knows something about Schiano that nobody else knows.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The defense that Patricia is inheriting in Detroit is much more talented up front and they have some good pieces like Darius Slay and and Quin Glover in the secondary.

Patricia helped the Pats go 13-1 over the Pats' last 14 games prior to the Super Bowl---and while the Pats have good talent in the secondary, after Hightower's injury, this was by far the weakest front seven the Pats gave had in years---yet Patricia worked wonders with them.

The Lions are retaining Jim Bob Cooter as OC---which will aid and abet MP's 1st year transition to HC.

But here is a point in reference, and I do not mean to bring up your observation on Peterson's tackling but there where numerous tackling 'attempts' in that Super Bowl. I mean that Patriot defense is soft and maybe it's because Patricia is great with analytics but cannot convey intensity as a coach... that beard he grows as a guise for being just a nerd portraying a tough guy

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Why hasn't it worked for the rest of them then?

Mangini and McDaniels were supposed be brilliant guys who would win big but McDaniels got caught cheating in Denver right away, and Mangini was the guy who turned in the pats in 2007 and started the whole scandal of them cheating and taping other teams, and he did all that because he knew of and possibly participated in it, when coaching for the Pats.

FWIW, Detroit was 23rd in total defense, 21st in scoring defense, it's not clear to me they're actually that good on defense.

None of them had a QB to build around. TB12 hides a lot of problems within the Patriots.

 

[Dback Jon]

None of them had a QB to build around. TB12 hides a lot of problems within the Patriots.

and the fact that thru gisele they have more money than what they know what to do with, and is content being the 19th highest paid QB in the league.

Imagine if TB wanted to be highest paid (as he should) - the Patriots would have 10-12 million less to work with.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

and the fact that thru gisele they have more money than what they know what to do with, and is content being the 19th highest paid QB in the league.

Imagine if TB wanted to be highest paid (as he should) - the Patriots would have 10-12 million less to work with.

Honestly, I think without Giselle, TB12 would still be flexible in his salary...It's always just seemed to be a part of his dna and demeanor...He's a team first rarity in a me first world.

 

[moklerman]

and the fact that thru gisele they have more money than what they know what to do with, and is content being the 19th highest paid QB in the league.

Imagine if TB wanted to be highest paid (as he should) - the Patriots would have 10-12 million less to work with.

I'd sure like to see Tom Brady on any team other than the Patriots. He's JAG in most other situations IMO.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd sure like to see Tom Brady on any team other than the Patriots. He's JAG in most other situations IMO.

Wtf?!? You might be literally the only person on the planet with this opinion.

 

[moklerman]

Wtf?!? You might be literally the only person on the planet with this opinion.

Perhaps but it's hard for me to concede that he'd be great just anywhere without the Patriot "mystique" backing him up. We'll never know.

 

[Ronin]

Chris Burke‏Verified account@ChrisBurkeNFL 1m1 minute ago
Lions announce the hire of Matt Patricia as head coach.

 

[oaken1]

What does Nick Foles say about Andy Reid and Chip Kelly? Andy Reid dumped him and Kelly got a very good year out of him.

Foles completed 65% for 3 TD's and 0INT's for Reid in KC... he had a 1 year contract with a second year option in KC.. the option was declined... that does not equate to Reid "Dumping" him... the team set a plan, allowed Foles to leave then went and drafted Patrick Mahomes.
They obviously wanted to go younger to ensure the teams future at the position.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd sure like to see Tom Brady on any team other than the Patriots. He's JAG in most other situations IMO.

You've been peddling this crap for two decades.

If you look at the Patriots he HAS been on teams other than the Patriots, because he's played for SO MANY different Patriot TEAMS/offenses, so many different schemes and even different coordinators and he's STILL the best. They didn't even have Gronk last year and won the title. He's literally been the captain of the ship, the only player in ALL of their Super Bowls, consistently leads the league in points, is up there in TDs, yardage and ALWAYS has the lowest interceptions. To question him, the only constant in 8 Super Bowl appearances and 5 wins is ludicrous.

JAG... flat out ridiculous.

 

[Arz101]

You've been peddling this crap for two decades.

If you look at the Patriots he HAS been on teams other than the Patriots, because he's played for SO MANY different Patriot TEAMS/offenses, so many different schemes and even different coordinators and he's STILL the best. They didn't even have Gronk last year and won the title. He's literally been the captain of the ship, the only player in ALL of their Super Bowls, consistently leads the league in points, is up there in TDs, yardage and ALWAYS has the lowest interceptions. To question him, the only constant in 8 Super Bowl appearances and 5 wins is ludicrous.

JAG... flat out ridiculous.

But Patricia's and Belichick's defense though.... NVM

 

[gimpy]

It seemed to me, especially early in the game that the Pats defense did a lot of standing around. The runner was not completely down or stopped and there would be three or four guys standing around watching. Led to a lot of extra yardage.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I have said, and/or implied, for years that too many coaches actually stifle their young QBs. They are so afraid of them making mistakes that they keep the kid from developing as he could/should. Especially rookie QBs, whose success is so much determined by simply what team and coach they are drafted into. It is sort of sad to think about how many good young QBs failed, not because of the talent or lack of it, but because they never got the right opportunity to succeed. Foles is probably the perfect example of this. He considered retiring before he given was given the opportunity to go somewhere he knew he would have some chance of succeeding.

Foles was allowed to open up and play the game to his fullest. Jacksonville could have beaten the Pats also, but its coach put the restraints on Bortles when they had a 10 point lead in the 2nd half. They were afraid of him losing the game, instead of allowing him to finish beating the Pats like he was doing for 2/3 of the game.

I think Alex Smith is another example of how coaches stifled his play for years. Same for the Rams rookie QB under their previous coach Fisher. Some of these coaches need to get out of the way and let their talented young QBs play the game like they always have and quit trying to reign them in so much. That at least stifles the kids growth and at most fully destroys his confidence in his natural ability. To me, they are judging these young qbs while allowing them to play with one arm tied behind their back.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Why hasn't it worked for the rest of them then?

Mangini and McDaniels were supposed be brilliant guys who would win big but McDaniels got caught cheating in Denver right away, and Mangini was the guy who turned in the pats in 2007 and started the whole scandal of them cheating and taping other teams, and he did all that because he knew of and possibly participated in it, when coaching for the Pats.

FWIW, Detroit was 23rd in total defense, 21st in scoring defense, it's not clear to me they're actually that good on defense.

I never said the previous D coaches for the Pats were successful when they got hired to be HC for other teams.

My point was that they get hired away from the Pats because they are coming from a winning program.

There are some pieces on the Detroit D to build upon and with Stafford in place on the O, Patricia has a decent shot provided he improves that D above their 2017 numbers.

 

[Russ Smith]

None of them had a QB to build around. TB12 hides a lot of problems within the Patriots.

So Stafford couldn't hide the Lions problems in past years but will now?

And Patricia is a DC.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

So Stafford couldn't hide the Lions problems in past years but will now?

And Patricia is a DC.

Oh Good no. I was just saying why those previous coaches, named, had all been failures. I have no idea if Stafford can do anything more than he has already shown.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[moklerman]

You've been peddling this crap for two decades.

If you look at the Patriots he HAS been on teams other than the Patriots, because he's played for SO MANY different Patriot TEAMS/offenses, so many different schemes and even different coordinators and he's STILL the best. They didn't even have Gronk last year and won the title. He's literally been the captain of the ship, the only player in ALL of their Super Bowls, consistently leads the league in points, is up there in TDs, yardage and ALWAYS has the lowest interceptions. To question him, the only constant in 8 Super Bowl appearances and 5 wins is ludicrous.

JAG... flat out ridiculous.

Once he does something outside of New England, I'll happily concede. There are too many shenanigans surrounding that franchise to buy that it's all Tom Brady and not the machine they have in place. You put just about any starting QB in the same situation(Cassell) and I think you'd get similar results.

You bring up a good point in that he has been a constant but he hasn't been the only constant. And not the most important IMO.

Perhaps there is something that Tom Brady is contributing that I fail to recognize but I see too many wide open receivers, picked up blitzes, etc. that remain constant regardless of who all of the other players are. Brady doesn't have accuracy, anticipation, arm strength or other things that other QB's don't possess so for me, it's been more about the QB friendly environment that the Patriots have created.

 

[TRW]

Chris Burke‏Verified account@ChrisBurkeNFL 1m1 minute ago
Lions announce the hire of Matt Patricia as head coach.

Guess not. LOL

 

[Shane]

Once he does something outside of New England, I'll happily concede. There are too many shenanigans surrounding that franchise to buy that it's all Tom Brady and not the machine they have in place. You put just about any starting QB in the same situation(Cassell) and I think you'd get similar results.

You bring up a good point in that he has been a constant but he hasn't been the only constant. And not the most important IMO.

Perhaps there is something that Tom Brady is contributing that I fail to recognize but I see too many wide open receivers, picked up blitzes, etc. that remain constant regardless of who all of the other players are. Brady doesn't have accuracy, anticipation, arm strength or other things that other QB's don't possess so for me, it's been more about the QB friendly environment that the Patriots have created.

Did you honestly just say Brady does not have Accuracy???? Anticipation?? And yes his arm strength is not over the top but the guy has chucked it 60 yards in the air accurately many times over.... He huffed it 50 right where it needed to be in the end zone last night with a hand that isnt completely healthy and at 40 years old.... oh boy what a laugher...

Quite possibly the most lidicrous view point ever written on this forum....

 

[RugbyMuffin]

But here is a point in reference, and I do not mean to bring up your observation on Peterson's tackling but there where numerous tackling 'attempts' in that Super Bowl. I mean that Patriot defense is soft and maybe it's because Patricia is great with analytics but cannot convey intensity as a coach... that beard he grows as a guise for being just a nerd portraying a tough guy

???

Not allowed to bring up Peterson's tackling now ?

Sorry, do not mean to be a problem, but I am in the belief if you say it you own it. Get tired of hearing about it ? Too bad, then you should not have said anything in the first place.

After last night's game, it is 100% acceptable for talking about the Patriots and those comparisons. I do not remember posters of ASFN asking for the Patriots to be, by far, the second most talked about team on this board, and the constant example of what the Cardinals do wrong by comparison's sake.

Anyone's points and opinion are up for debate on this board. If not, I ask the mods to post the truths that are not to be disputed on this board, please.

Watching the tackling, which by many on this board would deem poor, last night begs this to be talked about, and rightly so. Its been a HUGE topic on this board all season. Numerous Cardinals coaches, and players criticized and harshly for effort, and tackling.


Personally, I saw no problem with the effort and tackling of the Patriots. Blount is a 250lb back, and Ajayi is 220 lbs. Those are big backs, and they have a lot of weight on most defensive backs in the league. Its the pros, both sides are getting paid to play, and a 250lbs man running over a 180lbs is not an effort thing, it is a physics thing.

Sure, there are defensive backs that are good tacklers, but even "the best coach in the game" knows you have defensive backs out there for coverage purposes, and tackling second. That is the risk you take in the league, that is the chess match.

Matt Patricia can scream, and motivate, and intensify all he wants to, but Eric Rowe at 205lbs is in a really bad spot if L. Blount's 250lbs is coming at him full steam.

I understand that effort is something that fans like to see, and by effort that means taking on punishment to show "toughness", but again, you have to play smart. Ask Brandin Cooks about where effort for the chance at two or three extra yards, got him yesterday. #AndreEllington

This has been an ongoing talk, mainly because the constant, thorough Patriots comparisons made throughout the year, and here, in the biggest game we are seeing that maybe there was some hyperbole when making those comparisons. More than fair to talk about them today, since the Superbowl was yesterday.

Bill Belichek is a great coach, maybe the greatest, he has given his life to this game, and deserves his respect. But, he is just a football coach in the NFL with all the same challenges of other coaches. He doesn't walk on water.

Last night he got out coached, and his team was out executed. Still a great coach tho, it happens to the best of them. Only the hopelessly reactionary will be jumping off his bandwagon over last night.

But, maybe we can stop putting the Patriots a top the ivory tower and realize there are other great coaches out there, that can have success without copying everything the Patriots do.

As for what Patricia will do in Detroit ? We will see, it will be a different team, and it has yet to be seen if it will be done the Patriot way, or the Patricia way. But, I am pretty sure his team will tackle as well, or as poor as the rest of the teams in the NFL.



LOL, done, sorry J.Green to hijack your post.

 

[Russ Smith]

I never said the previous D coaches for the Pats were successful when they got hired to be HC for other teams.

My point was that they get hired away from the Pats because they are coming from a winning program.

There are some pieces on the Detroit D to build upon and with Stafford in place on the O, Patricia has a decent shot provided he improves that D above their 2017 numbers.

From what I've read today since they hired him even Patricia thinks their biggest issue is their lack of a run game. Run game obviously helps the whole team but they just hired a coach who has spent most of his career on a team that runs as an afterthought, and thinks their biggest need is fixing the run game, and he's a DC.

Maybe he'll be the guy that finally does it but my general feeling has been for some time the combination of Bill B, and their system of "Bending" the rules has made their defenses better than you think, and combined with Brady's brilliance on offense is just REALLY hard to duplicate anywhere else.