So, exactly what is the standard for Whiz & DA?

D-Dogg

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And to piggyback off of that, what in the hell does Jason Wright bring to this team? Really? THT, Beanie and LSH are a fine trio...Wright? I'd much rather roll with 4 QBs than Wright (of course, Leinart's popping off pretty much sealed his fate, so that option is closed).
 

D-Dogg

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Know that is a horse of a different color...

What is lamer "Witness for the prosecution" or "witness for the DA?"

:)


Which QB is more mediocre, ML or DA. I think if you can answer that, you can answer your brain-twister too.
 
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Absolutely a wide brush. It's cool - people are going to try to buy in to DA (hell, so will I) and will concoct all kinds of mental scenarios (I coined the Gloves of Accuracy line, ffs) to make chicken salad out of this chicken ish. The site has gone plenty goofy already with Team DA and Team Toast and Team DA and Team Hall all up in each others' throats.

People are now popping out of the woodwork to talk about how DA is actually the better option based on numbers, or that they know the entire locker room is against Matt, or whatever, all in an effort to maybe be comfortable with a move that...really, puts us in a very, very tight spot. This is the biggest risk Whis has taken (not starting DA per se, but dropping Matt and rolling with a wild-ass QB and two rookies). It's straight up ballsy...if it works, holy hell what a move. If it fails, holy hell what a move. But arguing the merits of DA vs Matt is silly when at the end of the day, we were better off with two mediocre vets and 2 rookies and cutting someone like, oh, Jason Wright than rolling with the more inaccurate, risk-taking turnover machine QB and 2 rookies. Arguing otherwise, to me, is silly.

I'm giving DA until the bye week before I go fully darkside, but if I continue to see him throw rockets at linebackers, I won't have to wait that long.

Go Cards...we shall overcome?


You're still blinded over your love of Toast... that's ok. The reality is that you can make a very strong case that this team needs to put the ball in the endzone - A LOT - in order to have a shot at W's. We won't be winning many games by our defense dominating and shutting down the opponent's offense. The Matty vs DA arguement gets pretty simple in that context. Add in the speculation that Whiz and the team itself see Matty as a poor leader, and the arguement becomes a no-brainer IMHO.
Now, as for upping my Win total... as I've said time and again, DA is no McCown. DA has proven the ability to move an offense and score. Granted it was one year. But it was his only year of starting all season. 29 TD's is a tremendous performance no matter how you slice. Particularly in the crappy confines and conditions of Cleveland weather and the Browns franchise, oh yea, playing in arguably the toughest division - the AFC North.
Look at our schedule and it becomes plausible that DA can put up 10 W's. Hell, if Kurt were here, I think 11 wins, maybe 12 if we beat the 9ers twice would be possible! Here's what I got with DA at the helm:

Rams - W
Falcons - L
Raiders - W
Chargers - L
Saints - L
SeaHags - W
Bucs - W
Vikes - L
SeaHags - W
Chiefs - W
9ers - W
Rams - W
Broncos - W
Panthers - L
Cowgirlz - W
9ers - L

Yes, so many of these games can go in a different direction as I'm sure many will be decided by a TD or less. But is it really that out of the realm of possibility?? Of course not.
Just stop with the crazy analogies of Whiz going all-in with a crappy hand. The hand he is playing is at worst the same hand he had in Matty, with a bunch more potenial for an upside surprise.

And yes, the W's would not have rested solely on the narrow shoulders of Matty, just as they don't on the broad shoulders of DA. The o-line, the run game and our defense all have to somehow find their legs... tall order for sure and truthfully, I am WAY, WAY more worried about these areas of the team than I am of DA. I see DA hitting Fitz, Breaston, Doucet (if he can stay on the field...), Williams and our TE's often and in-stride - may 25 times or more in the End Zone! What I am having a harder time with is seeing TH or Beannie sustaining effectiveness. And of course, our MLB and secondary still scares the crap out of me... We'll see. But for now, I'll stick with my 10 win prediction, that was 9 with Matty.
 
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82CardsGrad

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And to piggyback off of that, what in the hell does Jason Wright bring to this team? Really? THT, Beanie and LSH are a fine trio...Wright? I'd much rather roll with 4 QBs than Wright (of course, Leinart's popping off pretty much sealed his fate, so that option is closed).

I kinda agree with this, but, it just seems he is a Whiz kinda guy. Solid on Special Teams (which Whiz loves), and is apparently a solid locker room and leader kinda guy. Still, it would be no skin off my back of Wright were gone.
 

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I'm not going to give a standard for this year since there are so many questions going into the season but I expect a stable yearly playoff team within 3-4 years.
 

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Look at our schedule and it becomes plausible that DA can put up 10 W's. Hell, if Kurt were here, I think 11 wins, maybe 12 if we beat the 9ers twice would be possible!

Well for one thing if Warner were still QB I don't think there would have been a wholesale makeover of the offensive line so the Cards would have been odds on favorites to win again even though Kurt would be 39 and still have his hip to deal with.

I don't see how anyone can begin to predict what this team does this season because there are just too many people in new positions. Can anyone tell me of a team that changed starting QB and 9 other positions in one off season and did well the following season? There probably is so if someone can find it I'd appreciate it because it would make me feel better about the prospects for the 2010 season.
 
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Well for one thing if Warner were still QB I don't think there would have been a wholesale makeover of the offensive line so the Cards would have been odds on favorites to win again even though Kurt would be 39 and still have his hip to deal with.

I don't see how anyone can begin to predict what this team does this season because there are just too many people in new positions. Can anyone tell me of a team that changed starting QB and 9 other positions in one off season and did well the following season? There probably is so if someone can find it I'd appreciate it because it would make me feel better about the prospects for the 2010 season.


1.) Even had the o-line gone thru the changes with Kurt here, I'd still say 11 wins was ours... ;)

2.) Totally agree wiith your second point about all of the changes in totality and the impact on the team. It really can't be overstated... :bang:
Still, the schedule is friendly and we do have better than serviceable parts in place. Don't get me wrong, I am going with 10 wins, but if we end up 6 & 10 when it's all said and done, I really wouldn't be all too surprised... would've said the same with Matty at the helm (though, I predicted 9 wins as his upside.).
 

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I haven't read over the thread yet, but I'll go through and put my ideas together in responses to individual posts eventually.

My expectations for Anderson are pretty much the same as my expectations for Leinart. I don't think that anything less than 60% completion percentage, 3600 yards, 22 TDs, 18 INTs is acceptable. That's kind of the NFL average for a starting QB. I expect Anderson to keep us in at least three-quarters of the games, not run us out of them in the first quarter and then have to battle back.

As for Whis, I think that 10 wins remains a difficult goal. Rebuilding the offensive line and transitioning the defense, you have to expect some level of backsliding. Vegas has the over/under on the team at 7.5. I don't think that 8 wins is an acceptable standard for any NFL coach who's moving forward with a 10 win team, but I'll live with it as long as the team avoids three-game losing streaks or more than two blowout losses.
 

az240zz

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It's not about me... It's about Whiz, who, though you and others seem to feel otherwise, is far better suited to make these types of calls than am I, or you... ;)


I don't think Whiz is perfect, evidently you do. Is he a good coach, yes, but infallible, no none of us are.
 

D-Dogg

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Just stop with the crazy analogies of Whiz going all-in with a crappy hand. The hand he is playing is at worst the same hand he had in Matty, with a bunch more potenial for an upside surprise.

My analogy wasn't crazy, and I didn't say it was a crappy hand either. Let me elaborate, please (and take it into the realm of crazy).

Matt is a pair of 4's (I'm upping it to be fair). It's a made hand, we know what we have in it and it's not going to win a lot of showdowns, but it will show well against A-something if the board is rags (our division is rags). But it's a made hand (knows the offense, cautious with the ball, won't be spectacular but will depend on the running game and the D to win games).

Derek is a suited 9-8. Not a made hand, but pair one of the two and you beat the pocket 4's. You also have a straight chance. You also have a flush draw. Lots of upside, but the hand isn't made (needs to learn the offense, but could make a spectacularly exciting hand.) However, the hand is inherently weak, as exciting as it is. First off, it isn't made, so if the board is rags, a team with an A-anything beats you (the Niners are holding something like A or K-9). Second, even if you make the exciting flush or straight draw (the rocket arm, big play potential) you OFTEN find yourself on the losing end of the straight or up against a higher flush (the backbreaking picks, the bullet pass through the WR's hands in the endzone, etc). It's a MUCH more fun hand to play, but is a heartbreaker more often than not.

On the bench we have two 3-7 offsuit hands in the rookies. Not ready to win hands yet, but fun to play when you know you are going to lose with them and it's ok..because on the few times you win with them you can laugh maniacally and smile.

I don't even mind the playing of the 89S hand, by the way...it's totally a Whis hand to play (lots of fun, lots of risk, interesting upside). I get it. However, I don't agree with the longview strategy here.

Basically Whis was given 4 hands to choose from, 44, 89S, 37 and 37. He had two hands with a chance to play at the table, and two that fold the season. By playing the non-made hand first, it's an automatic ditch of the made hand, and now you have a risky hand and two folds, vs. a made hand, an exciting potential hand and a fold or two. The problem IMO isn't that Whis is going all-in with the 89S, because he isn't. The problem as I see it is that inevitably (barring super success with that 89S hitting the flop), is that he's going to be blinded all in with one of the 3-7 offsuit hands.

Of course, the 44 popped off to the media and got itself folded, but I think that was the goal all along anyway given the way the preseason played out. And if that is the case, it really sucks that we didn't upgrade the 44 hand to a better made hand when we had the chance. Now we roll with a hand that needs help, and two super long shot hands. Odds aren't great, but Whis does seem to have lady luck on his side. It wouldn't be shocking to see the flop be 10-J-Q-K suited and hit the straight flush...just hope the A the Niners hold isn't the one that makes the royal.

If you like poker, you have to like that analogy even if you don't agree with it. :D
 
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AzStevenCal

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If you like poker, you have to like that analogy even if you don't agree with it. :D

God I hope our rookies are better than 3-7 unsuited (not that the flush draw makes them much more appealing). Couldn't you at least give them one overcard that's likely to play? And who holds the button? Personally, I think both vets are more like a 9-2 hand and Hall is a Queen-small suited and Skelton is a king-eight unsuited.

BTW, how do the niners hit a higher straight flush if our vet is holding the nut straight flush? Also, I don't think the 10 held by the 49er's counts as a kicker since it's in play as part of the straight flush. The nits were ripe, hope you don't mind I picked them?:D

Steve
 

D-Dogg

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God I hope our rookies are better than 3-7 unsuited (not that the flush draw makes them much more appealing). Couldn't you at least give them one overcard that's likely to play? And who holds the button? Personally, I think both vets are more like a 9-2 hand and Hall is a Queen-small suited and Skelton is a king-eight unsuited.

BTW, how do the niners hit a higher straight flush if our vet is holding the nut straight flush? Also, I don't think the 10 held by the 49er's counts as a kicker since it's in play as part of the straight flush. The nits were ripe, hope you don't mind I picked them?:D

Steve

Oops, you are right. I was typing a mile a minute and wasn't using correct strategery - they wouldn't have the st. flush because the 9-8 are in our hands and we hold the nuts. Yay, our Str8 flush holds up! Now I had to edit that because it was bugging me.

Rookies with no experience are not going to be more than a 3-7 off, not going to win you any pots, but fun as hell to play. In a couple of years, their hands would be a lot better.

Bradford is more like the K-small suited hand, and he's a freaking stud.

I think we could create a damn awesome version of fantasy football based on hold 'em.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Oops, you are right. I was typing a mile a minute and wasn't using correct strategery - they wouldn't have the st. flush because the 9-8 are in our hands and we hold the nuts. Yay, our Str8 flush holds up!

Rookies with no experience are not going to be more than a 3-7 off, not going to win you any pots, but fun as hell to play. In a couple of years, their hands would be a lot better.

Bradford is more like the K-small suited hand, and he's a freaking stud.

I think we could create a damn awesome version of fantasy football based on hold 'em.

Nah, I think Skelton is a better longshot hand than that. Unfortunately, you have to go to 5th street with someone like that before you're really sure what you hold. Hall is a more solid hand with little upside. Actually, at a full table I'd call Max the small pocket pair because he's not likely to see the turn unless he catches on right away (trips on the flop).

As for marrying fantasy football to hold 'em, I'm all in.

Steve
 

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Nah, I think Skelton is a better longshot hand than that. Unfortunately, you have to go to 5th street with someone like that before you're really sure what you hold. Hall is a more solid hand with little upside. Actually, at a full table I'd call Max the small pocket pair because he's not likely to see the turn unless he catches on right away (trips on the flop).

As for marrying fantasy football to hold 'em, I'm all in.

Steve

I'd never take either of the rookies to the river unless it was a blinded all-in. Maybe in a tournament next year or so.

Taking a longshot to the river is just advertising that you like to hemorrhage chips.
 

AzStevenCal

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I'd never take either of the rookies to the river unless it was a blinded all-in. Maybe in a tournament next year or so.

Taking a longshot to the river is just advertising that you like to hemorrhage chips.

Sometimes you have to advertise. If you're getting enough action just about any hand becomes playable in spots. I wouldn't recommend chasing on a regular basis but if you only play the hands where the numbers add up, you'll get walked on in today's poker world. Now, back in the 70's you could earn a decent living play tight poker but those days ended when California legalized open faced poker games and the Indian Casino world took off and on-line poker swept through the college ranks.

I'm not sure how all this relates to the Cards this year other than we don't have a strong hand so we might as well take a gamble. Whether you're a tournament player or a high stakes money player sometimes you need to take a loss to set up wins in the future. We're probably at that point right now so let's take our losses and push towards moving one of the rookies into the starting spot.

Steve
 

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Whether you're a tournament player or a high stakes money player sometimes you need to take a loss to set up wins in the future. We're probably at that point right now so let's take our losses and push towards moving one of the rookies into the starting spot.

Steve

And there it is. That's what it all points to for me; we are playing the high risk hand while setting up for the future. And that's ok, but it is what it is. You have to sit by Mike the Mouth for a season though in the stands.
 

AzStevenCal

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And there it is. That's what it all points to for me; we are playing the high risk hand while setting up for the future. And that's ok, but it is what it is. You have to sit by Mike the Mouth for a season though in the stands.

Actually, my wife has to sit by Steve The Screamer in our living room. It's not a picnic for her either. But you're right, this is not for the faint of heart and even in the long run it's one heck of a gamble.

Steve
 

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I am in Vegas this weekend. It will be interesting to see if the 7.5 wins line has changed.

It turns out that over-under lines don't move once they're set after the draft. The line that moves is the money line on the wins. Right now, I don't think you'd get much for the under on 7.5 wins. I bet it's at -150 or worse.
 

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BTW, I think Leinart is more like 77's
 

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BTW, I think Leinart is more like 77's

That destroys the entire strategical plan though. If Leinart is 77's, then that really hurts the win percentage of the 89S since it's potential straight building cards out of the deck.

You changing #7 to 77's changes everything and makes the 89S play worse. That said, I'm raising the bet on 89S now in an attempt to buy the pot.
 

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What does Whiz know about DA that Holmgren didn't?

Why would Holmgren prefer Jake Delhomme, at a pretty hefty price, over DA?

Inquiring minds want to know...
 

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