So long Leonard

[vinnymac]

Remeber everyone, the cardinals shopped Big around last season to see his value and if there were any takers. This also could have led to the decision of letting him walk.

 

[PJ1]

Also it is ppossible to get as high as a 3rd for compensatory if im not mistaken.

I believe they weigh it against your signings before awarding you anything. So if we are going to be as active as everyone says we won't get much if anything.

 

[PJ1]

Remeber everyone, the cardinals shopped Big around last season to see his value and if there were any takers. This also could have led to the decision of letting him walk.

So they shopped him and got zero offers? Where did you get this information?

 

[Stout]

I just dont believe anyone was gonna tade anything worth while for that big overrated hunk of lard. Besides if hes the HUGE FA you guys are making him out to be we will likely get a decent compensatory pick(4th round) anywhoo. So big wooptydoo!

For your first, you are wrong that you think people wouldn't trade for the big overrated hunk of lard, because he happens to be one of the jewels of the FA market, according to a lot of experts. Teams likely find him the same.

Also, remember that we will not likely get a compensatory pick for him. Please remember that we need to spend a gazillion dollars somehow in FA, and if we bring in more FA than we lose, we don't get squat in FA.

Finally, you have said earlier on this thread that you would have rescinded the tag if you found out you couldn't trade him. Well, guess what? Thanks to a move you so loudly support, we'll never have the chance to get something. Sound smart to you? Not to me.

 

[joeshmo]

Also it is ppossible to get as high as a 3rd for compensatory if im not mistaken.

In the Comp pick formula the main point of it is that you have to lose more then you get to recieve a comp pick.

Big will be the only UFA that will be anything of worth to the comp pick formula so unless we complete screw up the free agency period we will bring in at the very least enough free agents to counteract the loss of Big.

Now since we are on the topic. Remember that according to the CBA there has to be a total of 255 picks in the draft. Now when they hand out the comp picks they never give out enough of them to get to 255 picks. When that happens they hand out conditional 7th round draft pick saccording to the 1st round of the draft starting from pick 1 and going from there. For example last year the first 7 teams to pick in the draft last year each received a 7th round comp pick because of this rule. Which means we will most likelt get a 7th round comp pick this year without having lost any UFA's.

 

[BACH]

Nor is it nearly as simple as you try to make it out to be. From the way you talk, he'll sign the franchise tender as soon as he sees the paperwork. History does not bear you out, nor does common sense. Only one player has ever gyped his team the way you describe--Woodson. Also, if he really wants to leave and has the chance to leave AND get more money, he'll more than likely jump on it. Is that water tight? Is there the chance he stays for one year? Sure, but it's pretty safe that it's a small chance, and we can easily cover it and keep a pretty good player. Not a bad risk-reward ratio.

So, you're afraid that since there is a risk he'll sign the tender, we shouldn't try it, right? Tell me, is the risk we'll end up with no solid replacement and with no compensation not far greater than the consequences of the risk of him signing the one year tender? I'm pretty confident in my logic, bro.

History does bear with me... The only other player to get the franchise value via the 20% rule the first time franchised is Woodson. He signed, because the one year base for very close to the value of a long term deal signing bonus.

I'm glad you're confident.

But I'm pretty confident in Graves, Whiz and Grimm fixing this problem.

I'm skeptical too. But, I personally think it came down to two things:

1) Whiz and Grimm liked Big, but didn't believe he was an essential part of the team.

2) Graves concluding that Big backed by his $11.4M salary in bargaining power in a long term negotiation wouldn't get much more 4th rounder if traded.

The risk was bigger than the reward, and they let him test the market.

 

[joeshmo]

History does bear with me... The only other player to get the franchise value via the 20% rule is Woodson..

There are others. Walter Jones did it twice I believe, just as an example.

 

[BACH]

There are others. Walter Jones did it twice I believe, just as an example.

Should have pointed out that I meant the first time he got tagged.

My point is that because of because Woodson's (and Big's) contract structure their franchise tag were/are almost 50% higher than the "regular" tag. That changes the situation, because that one year salary comes close to the value of the signing bnous of a long term deal. The advantage of getting a long-term deal becomes minimal that way.

 

[ActingWild]

2) Graves concluding that Big backed by his $11.4M salary in bargaining power in a long term negotiation wouldn't get much more 4th rounder if traded.

The risk was bigger than the reward, and they let him test the market.

Wait, are you saying you'd rather have nothing than a 4th rounder? That's at least sooooomething for Big and I'd feel much better about this if we were getting a 6th rounder, much less a 4th.

 

[Duckjake]

I just want to take this opportunity to apologize for all of the mean and hurtfull things that I have said about BIG in the past. It is not his fault that we picked him and we cant blame him for not telling anyone that he was a lazy unmotivated guy. When money is in your face, anyone would say that they are worthy of being an early draft choice. With that said, GOOD RIDDANCE YOU FAT, LAZY, WORTHLESS, WIMPY, CRYBABY, NON-BLOCKING, ASSIGNMENT MISSING, FALSE STARTING AND SOON TO BE SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROBLEM. Best of luck bud (except when you play the Redbirds).

Sad to see posts like this all over the board. Whether Davis was a good or bad offensive lineman for the Cards is debateable but to see the hate here for a guy who played for the Cardinals for 6 years, 5 of them under horrible conditions, and never complained, never acted like he was too good for the team, and did good things like donate his time to charities in the Phoenix area just makes me sick.

Leonard as a person is a far cry from Simeon Rice or David Boston and doesn't deserve the kind of crap posted by cardsfanmd... and others for that matter.

 

[Shane]

For your first, you are wrong that you think people wouldn't trade for the big overrated hunk of lard, because he happens to be one of the jewels of the FA market, according to a lot of experts. Teams likely find him the same.

Also, remember that we will not likely get a compensatory pick for him. Please remember that we need to spend a gazillion dollars somehow in FA, and if we bring in more FA than we lose, we don't get squat in FA.

Finally, you have said earlier on this thread that you would have rescinded the tag if you found out you couldn't trade him. Well, guess what? Thanks to a move you so loudly support, we'll never have the chance to get something. Sound smart to you? Not to me.

Why am I wrong? Because you say so? Hardly. Just because some national sports writers like big dont make it so 99% of those guys havent watched probably more than a quarter of cardinal football all year anyhow. The guy is plain and simply an extremely overrated LT. Just because he is the best LT in the FA market isnt really a glaring endorsement of him either. It just means its a really bad bad year.

You guys are right about the compensatory picks. I forgot about the entire formula.

I said I would only tag him if I knew for a fact that we could get at least a 3rd rounder from another team. IMO nobody would trade for him. Im neither wrong nor right. But by the same token neither are you.

 

[Shane]

Sad to see posts like this all over the board. Whether Davis was a good or bad offensive lineman for the Cards is debateable but to see the hate here for a guy who played for the Cardinals for 6 years, 5 of them under horrible conditions, and never complained, never acted like he was too good for the team, and did good things like donate his time to charities in the Phoenix area just makes me sick.

Leonard as a person is a far cry from Simeon Rice or David Boston and doesn't deserve the kind of crap posted by cardsfanmd... and others for that matter.

I agree to call him "WORTHLESS, WHIMPY, and a CRYBABY are all out of line. The rest fits him to a tee.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree to call him "WORTHLESS, WHIMPY, and a CRYBABY are all out of line. The rest fits him to a tee.

That's too bad. I expected more from you Shane.

You and I agreed a long time ago that Davis inconsitency as a result of an apparent lack of focus was hurting the offense.

That doesn't mean we have to gin up rude behavior.

Where's Woodrow Call when I need him?

 

[Shane]

That's too bad. I expected more from you Shane.

You and I agreed a long time ago that Davis inconsitency as a result of an apparent lack of focus was hurting the offense.

That doesn't mean we have to gin up rude behavior.

Where's Woodrow Call when I need him?

FAT, LAZY,NON-BLOCKING, ASSIGNMENT MISSING, FALSE STARTING

Sorry Duck but all of those describe LD to a tee on the field. Why should I sugarcoat it? Thats not rude. That just how it is.

He will also soon be someone elses problem. The other statements he made were absolutely wrong. I agree.

 

[Sandan]

Duck, why don't just just post over and over again 'Bidwill is cheap' and have done with it

 

[Duckjake]

Duck, why don't just just post over and over again 'Bidwill is cheap' and have done with it

So you think that slamming Davis simply because the Cardinals are not going to keep him for next year is acceptable behavior?

Do you really believe that Davis was lazy, and gave a half hearted effort, and didn't want to be in Arizona? If so where are your facts to back it up?

You are such a hypocrite.

 

[PJ1]

So you think that slamming Davis simply because the Cardinals are not going to keep him for next year is acceptable behavior?

Do you really believe that Davis was lazy, and gave a half hearted effort, and didn't want to be in Arizona? If so where are your facts to back it up?

You are such a hypocrite.

Criticize Graves or Billy B and their stellar track record and he will start crying.....

 

[Shane]

So you think that slamming Davis simply because the Cardinals are not going to keep him for next year is acceptable behavior?

Do you really believe that Davis was lazy, and gave a half hearted effort, and didn't want to be in Arizona? If so where are your facts to back it up?

You are such a hypocrite.

I definitely believe he was lazy at times thus he gave a half hearted effort many times on the field. Watching him play confirms that for me. He was entirely to inconsistent. He showed at other times how dominant he could be. So what was happening in between the dominance and the medocrity? IMO opinion its a lack of focus and effort. Which to me means he wasnt will9ing to give it his all on every single play. Supposting the lazy comments.

 

[vinnymac]

This is a moot point anymore. The man is moving on and i believe it is time for us to move on.

 

[Duckjake]

I definitely believe he was lazy at times thus he gave a half hearted effort many times on the field. Watching him play confirms that for me. He was entirely to inconsistent. He showed at other times how dominant he could be. So what was happening in between the dominance and the medocrity? IMO opinion its a lack of focus and effort. Which to me means he wasnt will9ing to give it his all on every single play. Supposting the lazy comments.

I'll agree to the point that Davis lacked focus. I just can't see the guy blocking for Edge on that scoring run against Seattle as lazy and not caring about the team and it really irks me to see guys bashing him for no other reason than he's not going to be on the team next year.

It also ticks me off for people to call him "drive killer" because of his false starts and not be able to point to more than one or two drives a year, the same or less than all the other players on the team, that his penalties stalled.

 

[justAndy]

This is a moot point anymore. The man is moving on and i believe it is time for us to move on.

yup.
let's make some new threads.

 

[Rats]

I definitely believe he was lazy at times thus he gave a half hearted effort many times on the field. Watching him play confirms that for me. He was entirely to inconsistent. He showed at other times how dominant he could be. So what was happening in between the dominance and the medocrity? IMO opinion its a lack of focus and effort. Which to me means he wasnt will9ing to give it his all on every single play. Supposting the lazy comments.

IMO The truth lay some where in the middle. No one can dominate every game. Davis was very dominate at guard. One of the best in the league. He played one of his seasons at LT on a bum knee that made him less than effective. He played at least 10 of 16 games last season at a pro bowl level. .I do not believe it was a lack of focus or a lack of effort. Constant shuffleing of guys next to him thru out his career made him less effective. This is a fact. He has the measurables to dominate on a good line that is given time to gel. Showing him the door as they were getting it together with Matt at Qb is the wrong move. And doing it without getting good value in return for him is insane. LD is a top Offensive lineman in the NFL, like it or not. He had marginal games but I believe anyone would have that if they had as many line changes and coaching changes as he did here. He deserves better from Cards fans. He is no cancer.

 

[Duckjake]

yup.
let's make some new threads.

You can sew?

Or do you knit?

 

[Skkorpion]

Duckjake, the hypocrite comment is not you.
PJ1, your shot at Nidan was also over the top.

Let's back off on insulting other fans, please.

 

[40yearfan]

This is a moot point anymore. The man is moving on and i believe it is time for us to move on.

It'll never happen vinny. This day will live on in Cardinal infamy, just like the fabled RG trade down and the let D Boston walk with no compensation. These things are ingrained into the physici of some Cardinal fans and they will carry these disappointments with them to the grave.

Besides, it's the only thing Cards fans have to gripe about right now and it could be a while before something new surfaces, so they will tare into it and shake it until something new comes along.

Don't worry fellows. Something new always comes along. It's the Cardinals, remember?