So long Leonard

[conraddobler]

I don't mind Big being gone at all.

I don't even get too mad at how they dumped him, heck with all the cap room out there Big's agent is practically drooling to hit that market with teams flush with cash, they weren't going to cooperate for ANY sign and trade deal period.

Having said all that, Graves and Co are going to get schooled in FA and in the draft, you watch.

 

[wierwolf]

I am sorry. but Big was not performing up to his #2 pick status. Period. Though I feel with Russ Grimm here Big could easily become that Pro Bowl OL they hoped he would be. But the cards can easily get a lineman that could do the same stuff he was doing cheaper. But again this is a business. I am sure they have some FA's and draft picks in mind to go after.So to me it was still good business. It's kind of comical reading your posts here... You say our OL needs a big overhaul to say the least, but when they let one not leave but test the market there is crying here... lol. Just funny... Whiz is going to make the needed changes here to make this a more competitive OL and team. To me I say so long and don't let the door hit him in his big Butt. If he was a little faster the door wouldn't hit him.

 

[wierwolf]

I am sorry. but Big was not performing up to his #2 pick status. Period. Though I feel with Russ Grimm here Big could easily become that Pro Bowl OL they hoped he would be. But the cards can easily get a lineman that could do the same stuff he was doing cheaper. But again this is a business. I am sure they have some FA's and draft picks in mind to go after.So to me it was still good business. It's kind of comical reading your posts here... You say our OL needs a big overhaul to say the least, but when they let one not leave but test the market there is crying here... lol. Just funny... Whiz is going to make the needed changes here to make this a more competitive OL and team. To me I say so long and don't let the door hit him in his big Butt. If he was a little faster the door wouldn't hit him.

 

[BigRedArk]

So now you want to jump on my ass also. What is it with you people? If someone's opinion is different than yours, it's alright to rag on them and brow beat them.

It's my freaking opinion and I see no need to explain it to you, so bug off and go bother someone who gives a damn.

You've now answered my question 40. Thanks. By the way it was a fair question that you ask others on this board all the time.

 

[GreenCard]

40,have you and nidan been drinking from the same jug?

 

[vinnymac]

who would ever thought that big wasn't worth what he is asking for. wait a second it was me. go figure.

 

[BACH]

As to your first point, I will simply assume that you don't understand the issue, because otherwise you are simply dead wrong. You may absolutely trade an UFA if you have franchised him. I don't know the particulars of the sign-and-trade, but you basically allow another team to work out an extension with the franchised player, and you work out draft pick compensation with that team. It happened more than once, but here is an example:

http://www.titansradio.com/news2001/news739380.html

As to the rest, I will again assume you still don't understand. If he signs a good market-deal extension, Big will definitely be guaranteed at least 11 million, so he would be crazy not to extend with another team, especially if he wants to leave.

I'm not sure why you're being so obstinate about this. There is every likelihood we would get draft picks back for Big if we franchise and trade him. Worst case scenario is that he's on the books for 11 million, which is highly doubtful, and we still have more cap room than we can realistically spend in the shallow FA pool.

You're missing my point...

I'm well aware that you can trade a player that you have franchised.

My comment was based on the assumption that Big would sign the tender ASAP. I thought I made that pretty clear.

You cannot trade a player that has signed his tender until 26 July or something like that.

You can do it if Big agrees to a new deal first, because it wouldn't be a franchise tender then.

That brings us to my second point. I don't see any reason why Big would take the long-term deal over the $11.4M tender.

He's going to get a backloaded long-term deal with a huge signing bonus no matter what. My point is that Big can get $11.4M and that signing bonus by staying put for one year. The

Look at a 2-year scenario:
Staying for one year:
$11.4M Base (2007) - $14M SB + $1M BS (2008) = $26.4M

Becoming UFA now:
$14M SB + $1M BS (2007) - $3M (2008) = $18M

If Big signs the tender, then he gets not one, but two huge salaries within 13 months.

 

[40yearfan]

You've now answered my question 40. Thanks. By the way it was a fair question that you ask others on this board all the time.

Some of us get our boards mixed up. This is not the P & R board and I defy you to show me where I asked anyone on this Cardinals board where they are getting their info from. There is nobody on this board who has inside information. Everybody is espousing his or her opinions and to ask someone to prove an opinion is asinine.

Edit:

Look BRA. This is a personal peeve of mine. I enjoy this forum because I know a lot of the people who post on here. I just don't like when some of the more knowledgable posters start picking on people and trying to belittle them because they might not have as much knowledge or have an opinion contrary to what the more knowledgable poster has. We are all Cardinal fans. If we want to argue, we can use some of the other forums and I'll be happy to accomadate anyone on the P & R board. Let's keep the Cards board civil.

I apologize if I've come off as a cranky old man, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[40yearfan]

40,have you and nidan been drinking from the same jug?

Yeah, but nidan keeps hogging it all.

 

[BACH]

Worst case scenario is that he's on the books for 11 million, which is highly doubtful, and we still have more cap room than we can realistically spend in the shallow FA pool.

I agree with you on this, BUT that's where the Whiz factor comes in IMO. I don't think Graves would had made the decision without Whiz and Grimm having okay'ed it.

And I actually semi-agree that this was a wrong decision by Graves.

All I'm staying that it's isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

 

[vinnymac]

The same exact supposed DUMB question and reasoning he likes to throw at the graves bashers.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1251827&postcount=156

I agree with 40 yearfan. This isn't the same ole cardinals. The Bidwill's have a stadium to fill. Everyone here claims the Bidwills are about the money. That is true with most people. In order for the Bidwills to get money, they have to fill that brand spankin new stadium. They can't do that if they don't put a winner on the field. They have been doing that lately. They resigned who they thought were key players on the team. they been bringing in free agents who they think can help this team win. Everyone here agrees that the draft lately have been fairly good. how much money do the cardinals have tied up in Fitzgerald, Rolle, and Leinart. Not to mention that the cardinals landed one of the biggest free agents in the league and in cardinals history, Edggrin James. This isn't the same ole cardinals just because they let an underachieveing player walk. If this was the same ole cardinals, they would have resigned Davis.

 

[cardsfanmd]

If this was the same old Cardinals Denny would still be the coach.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I just want to take this opportunity to apologize for all of the mean and hurtfull things that I have said about BIG in the past. It is not his fault that we picked him and we cant blame him for not telling anyone that he was a lazy unmotivated guy. When money is in your face, anyone would say that they are worthy of being an early draft choice. With that said, GOOD RIDDANCE YOU FAT, LAZY, WORTHLESS, WIMPY, CRYBABY, NON-BLOCKING, ASSIGNMENT MISSING, FALSE STARTING AND SOON TO BE SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROBLEM. Best of luck bud (except when you play the Redbirds).

 

[BigDavis75]

This move sucks.

 

[jefftheshark]

This move sucks.

I can see why you feel this way, BigDavis75. I bet DennyGreenFan felt somewhat similar to the way you do late last season.

I am just glad that I didn't go through with my plans to change my ASFN name to "Wendell Bryant's da bomb" like I originally planned.

The Shark

 

[Stout]

I agree with you on this, BUT that's where the Whiz factor comes in IMO. I don't think Graves would had made the decision without Whiz and Grimm having okay'ed it.

And I actually semi-agree that this was a wrong decision by Graves.

All I'm staying that it's isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

Nor is it nearly as simple as you try to make it out to be. From the way you talk, he'll sign the franchise tender as soon as he sees the paperwork. History does not bear you out, nor does common sense. Only one player has ever gyped his team the way you describe--Woodson. Also, if he really wants to leave and has the chance to leave AND get more money, he'll more than likely jump on it. Is that water tight? Is there the chance he stays for one year? Sure, but it's pretty safe that it's a small chance, and we can easily cover it and keep a pretty good player. Not a bad risk-reward ratio.

So, you're afraid that since there is a risk he'll sign the tender, we shouldn't try it, right? Tell me, is the risk we'll end up with no solid replacement and with no compensation not far greater than the consequences of the risk of him signing the one year tender? I'm pretty confident in my logic, bro.

 

[Shane]

LD was the anchor for arguably the worst OL in history over the last 3 years. They have downright miserbale with the exception of a few hames at the end of last season.

Add on to that the fact that he just isnt all that good and this was a NO BRAINER! Lets just move on and be happy hes gone.

 

[Stout]

LD was the anchor for arguably the worst OL in history over the last 3 years. They have downright miserbale with the exception of a few hames at the end of last season.

Add on to that the fact that he just isnt all that good and this was a NO BRAINER! Lets just move on and be happy hes gone.

But hey, who wants an extra 3rd rounder. Who knows, maybe even a 2nd or a late 1st? Naaaaah, we'd just have too much confusion on who to pick...better off to just let the guy walk for nothin', huh?

 

[Shane]

But hey, who wants an extra 3rd rounder. Who knows, maybe even a 2nd or a late 1st? Naaaaah, we'd just have too much confusion on who to pick...better off to just let the guy walk for nothin', huh?

I just dont believe anyone was gonna tade anything worth while for that big overrated hunk of lard. Besides if hes the HUGE FA you guys are making him out to be we will likely get a decent compensatory pick(4th round) anywhoo. So big wooptydoo!

 

[Skkorpion]

This isn't the same ole cardinals just because they let an underachieveing player walk. If this was the same ole cardinals, they would have resigned Davis.

Never thought of it that way. We do have a history of overpaying to keep average players like Plummer, Larry Centers and Rob Moore.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I just dont believe anyone was gonna tade anything worth while for that big overrated hunk of lard. Besides if hes the HUGE FA you guys are making him out to be we will likely get a decent compensatory pick(4th round) anywhoo. So big wooptydoo!

Shane, you see the quality of the tackles available in FA. Considering that by any measure, Davis is considered the best of the group, do you find it unbelievable that we could have at least gotten a 2nd round pick for him? For a team full of holes, another second rounder would look awfully nice.

 

[Shane]

Shane, you see the quality of the tackles available in FA. Considering that by any measure, Davis is considered the best of the group, do you find it unbelievable that we could have at least gotten a 2nd round pick for him? For a team full of holes, another second rounder would look awfully nice.

No I truly dont believe anyone was gonig to give a 2nd rounder for LD.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

No I truly dont believe anyone was gonig to give a 2nd rounder for LD.

I am not positive than anyone would give a second, but I think there is a very good chance. I find it hard to believe we couldn't get a 3rd. Now our hope is to get a decent compensatory pick. If we could have gotten a 3rd, would you have tagged him?

 

[Shane]

I am not positive than anyone would give a second, but I think there is a very good chance. I find it hard to believe we couldn't get a 3rd. Now our hope is to get a decent compensatory pick. If we could have gotten a 3rd, would you have tagged him?

I may have tagged him in order to bait somebody for the tradeif we knew we would get a 3rd. But I would have certainly pulled the tag with plenty of time left on the dead line so big LD couldnt stroll on in and sign that bad boy.

 

[Shane]

Also it is ppossible to get as high as a 3rd for compensatory if im not mistaken.