So why aren't we looking at big men?

[OldDirtMcGirt]

No the NBA shortage of big men is chronic. It's not just the Suns that are looking for real big men. The truth is the chances of you finding someone at another position who can contribute are much greater then finding a big man who can. So I would rather have someone who can contribute the add some big man who never will.

I think that it's very realistic that we'd be able to swing a deal for a guy like Sheed or Camby. Plus, there already is a good defensive big man on the market in P.J. Brown. So it's not like they don't exist.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think that it's very realistic that we'd be able to swing a deal for a guy like Sheed or Camby. Plus, there already is a good defensive big man on the market in P.J. Brown. So it's not like they don't exist.

Easier said then done. They don't want to go near Sheed and we already know that making trades is much more complicated then most people make it out to be. I didn't say it wasn't possible. However, the reality is trading for some big man is not as easy as finding someone like Grant Hill that is more likely to contribute.

I also like the idea of getting PJ and I think he could help. However, we are not the only one that's probaby going to go after him. Again, is it possible? Yes but big men are at a premium in this leage. There are more guys like Hill on the market then PJ.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Easier said then done. They don't want to go near Sheed and we already know that making trades is much more complicated then most people make it out to be. I didn't say it wasn't possible. However, the reality is trading for some big man is not as easy as finding someone like Grant Hill that is more likely to contribute.

I also like the idea of getting PJ and I think he could help. However, we are not the only one that's probaby going to go after him. Again, is it possible? Yes but big men are at a premium in this leage. There are more guys like Hill on the market then PJ.

I totally agree with you that it's difficult to find quality big men in the league. But besides Sheed (which I agree has a zero percent chance of happening) and Camby (who the Nugs are shopping), there are lesser known guys like Jeff Foster or Udonis Haslem that are available.

As for PJ, does anybody have any articles related to him and how much the market is? I think that we could realistic players for him.

EDIT: Add Joel Pryzbilla and Theo Ratliff to that list.

 

[mr_sunshine]

I totally agree with you that it's difficult to find quality big men in the league. But besides Sheed (which I agree has a zero percent chance of happening) and Camby (who the Nugs are shopping), there are lesser known guys like Jeff Foster or Udonis Haslem that are available.

As for PJ, does anybody have any articles related to him and how much the market is? I think that we could realistic players for him.

EDIT: Add Joel Pryzbilla and Theo Ratliff to that list.

You want Ratliff? Hahahahah. Seriously? He's done for, not to mention his contract is $11 million some odd I believe. At least it's only one more year though...

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

You want Ratliff? Hahahahah. Seriously? He's done for, not to mention his contract is $11 million some odd I believe. At least it's only one more year though...

Yeah, it's expiring. I was just throwing out the names of decent big men. Ratliff would definitely be low on the pecking order... besides, the Celtics are using him as trade bait.

 

[HooverDam]

I'd love to see Ely here, he's GOT to be a better option than Marks. He's at least somewhat usuable, maybe for the end of the 1st/3rd qtrs to give KT a break...who knows.

 

[overseascardfan]

For rebounding and shot blocking purposes I would look at Magloire when he is cut, PJ Brown would be ideal but I like Dalembert from Philly.

I just don't know how we would get him from PHI. Maybe Diaw & Banks, don't they need a backup to Miller?

 

[Errntknght]

That's right, the Blazers will have to waive or release a couple of guys... Przybilla might be one of them or Magliore. Come to think of it the Sonics might be waiving one of their bigs this year... of course, the guy they got last year - forgotten his strange name - was pretty much of a flop. Dallas might cut Mbenga loose.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

For rebounding and shot blocking purposes I would look at Magloire when he is cut, PJ Brown would be ideal but I like Dalembert from Philly.

I just don't know how we would get him from PHI. Maybe Diaw & Banks, don't they need a backup to Miller?

Dalembert has a gigantic salary. I doubt we go after him.

 

[Folster]

Chris Andersen? I would give him another chance on a one year deal just as longs as he is clean and stays clean. I really liked him and thought that his game was perfect for the Suns.

I think his lengthy ban/suspension is up. Does anyone know if he has been playing ball somewhere and if he is trying to get back in the league?

Edit: Nevermind. If Wiki is right he was supended for two years in Jan. of 06. It seemed like longer ago than that.

 

[mathbzh]

That's right, the Blazers will have to waive or release a couple of guys... Przybilla might be one of them or Magliore. Come to think of it the Sonics might be waiving one of their bigs this year... of course, the guy they got last year - forgotten his strange name - was pretty much of a flop. Dallas might cut Mbenga loose.

Maybe we could get Petro from seattle. He has all the tools to become a decent center and should be athletic enough to play with the Suns. But he is a poor defender, not a good rebounder and his work ethic is questionable.
Moreover he should not develop into a good center before Nash days are over. Swift would be a better choice but I think that with Durant there the Sonics will keep the defensive center, not the offensive one.
Sene could turn in a good defensive center but the road is way too long.

 

[mr_sunshine]

Maybe we could get Petro from seattle. He has all the tools to become a decent center and should be athletic enough to play with the Suns. But he is a poor defender, not a good rebounder and his work ethic is questionable.
Moreover he should not develop into a good center before Nash days are over. Swift would be a better choice but I think that with Durant there the Sonics will keep the defensive center, not the offensive one.
Sene could turn in a good defensive center but the road is way too long.

We don't have a shot at Swift to be honest. He's got a high price tag on him. Ainge tried to get him in the Ray Allen deal, but they asked for Rajon Rondo in return.

 

[mathbzh]

We don't have a shot at Swift to be honest. He's got a high price tag on him. Ainge tried to get him in the Ray Allen deal, but they asked for Rajon Rondo in return.

I know... that is why I put the focus on Petro... but I don't think Petro would be helpfull.

 

[da_suns_fan]

To answer the question:

1) We have "The Stache" as our coach.

2) We have "The Banker" as our owner.

The banker won't allow us to sign someone like PJ Brown. It doesn't really matter since "The Stache" would rather go small than to stop Tim Duncan literally volleying the ball to himself around the basket. Pretty hard to get stops when you can't get the rebound.

I've always said that Duncan is seven foot, but plays like he's eight foot. He's the best in the league at using his height to his advantage. This is why Dallas (with multiple seven footers on the floor) doesn't have as much trouble with the Spurs as we do.

 

[nashman]

Yeah right our coach sucks and our owner is cheap...geesh some will never stop.

 

[azirish]

Let's be clear, the Suns under D'Antoni are going to play "small ball". Actually, it isn't so much that it is about being small, but about having guys who can run and have serious offensive skills on the inside.

Most bigs are not not only too expensive, they are too slow. That's what limits the minutes KT plays and he's better at this style than most.

This approach can create a lot of frustration, but it has been effective against everybody except the Spurs. Due to injuries and the inability to keep guys on the bench, the jury is out as to whether the Suns can beat the Spurs with the guys they have. Adding another player for a single series is difficult.

 

[Covert Rain]

To answer the question:

1) We have "The Stache" as our coach.

2) We have "The Banker" as our owner.

The banker won't allow us to sign someone like PJ Brown. It doesn't really matter since "The Stache" would rather go small than to stop Tim Duncan literally volleying the ball to himself around the basket. Pretty hard to get stops when you can't get the rebound.

I've always said that Duncan is seven foot, but plays like he's eight foot. He's the best in the league at using his height to his advantage. This is why Dallas (with multiple seven footers on the floor) doesn't have as much trouble with the Spurs as we do.

You can't stop Duncan. You can't. The key to beating the Spurs IMO is not stopping Duncan. It's stopping everybody else on the floor. I keep hearing people make this argument but the best you could hope for is slowing him down. Even that is iffy. Even if we had KG people forget that in head to head match-ups Duncan still shot 63%. So you have to focus on making Tim Duncan the only weapon.

That means stopping Parker and Sir Flopsalot. We need to get more depth on the bench and actually use that bench. If Suns fans are hoping for a Tim Duncan stopper to put us over the top then we will be waiting until he retires. I am all for getting a guy like PJ Brown to help but only because getting bigger would keep guys like Parker and Manu out of the paint not necessarily to stop Duncan.

 

[mathbzh]

You can't stop Duncan. You can't. The key to beating the Spurs IMO is not stopping Duncan. It's stopping everybody else on the floor. I keep hearing people make this argument but the best you could hope for is slowing him down. Even that is iffy. Even if we had KG people forget that in head to head match-ups Duncan still shot 63%. So you have to focus on making Tim Duncan the only weapon.

That means stopping Parker and Sir Flopsalot. We need to get more depth on the bench and actually use that bench. If Suns fans are hoping for a Tim Duncan stopper to put us over the top then we will be waiting until he retires. I am all for getting a guy like PJ Brown to help but only because getting bigger would keep guys like Parker and Manu out of the paint not necessarily to stop Duncan.

Going bigger will not help against Parker, since he is developping a very good jumpshot (Utah is big... and they didn't stop him). If we want to stop him or at least slow him down we need someone able to defend on him (No Shawn you can't defend on Parker).

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

You can't stop Duncan. You can't. The key to beating the Spurs IMO is not stopping Duncan. It's stopping everybody else on the floor. I keep hearing people make this argument but the best you could hope for is slowing him down. Even that is iffy. Even if we had KG people forget that in head to head match-ups Duncan still shot 63%. So you have to focus on making Tim Duncan the only weapon.

That means stopping Parker and Sir Flopsalot. We need to get more depth on the bench and actually use that bench. If Suns fans are hoping for a Tim Duncan stopper to put us over the top then we will be waiting until he retires. I am all for getting a guy like PJ Brown to help but only because getting bigger would keep guys like Parker and Manu out of the paint not necessarily to stop Duncan.

Exactly. This is called the Kobe defense. Let him (duncan/kobe/lebron to an extent) get his points. Make him work for it, but dont over invest in futile attempts to "stop" him. Choke the rest of the team off (not literally!) so they cant contribute.

 

[azirish]

The best job done on Duncan in the playoffs was by Zydrunas Ilgauskas.
Duncan averaged 18.3 ppg and just 44.6% shooting. During the regular season in two games, Duncan shot 14 of 29 against the Cavs (however he took 27 free throws). Z's trick is to be 7'3".

 

[Calvin]

What about Brian Skinner?

The Suns are a better team with Kurt and Amare on the floor at the same time. Skinner would be a good back-up to Kurt. The Suns need to focus on playing someone next to Amare that can body up on people and position rebound.

 

[Gaddabout]

Let's be clear, the Suns under D'Antoni are going to play "small ball". Actually, it isn't so much that it is about being small, but about having guys who can run and have serious offensive skills on the inside.

Most bigs are not not only too expensive, they are too slow. That's what limits the minutes KT plays and he's better at this style than most.

This approach can create a lot of frustration, but it has been effective against everybody except the Spurs. Due to injuries and the inability to keep guys on the bench, the jury is out as to whether the Suns can beat the Spurs with the guys they have. Adding another player for a single series is difficult.

This is D'Antoni's failure, IMO. As long as the center can spread the floor to allow room for Amare and Nash to work the two-man game at the elbow, why does the center need to run? I've not seen too many 5-on-less than 5 fast breaks in my life. In fact, the only time I've seen it was in rec league games when fat guys like me were too out of breath to run back to the other end of the court.

D'Antoni was forced to concede the Spurs had taken away most of the fast-break opportunities and opted to play KT more minutes. Low and behold, the Suns became a better half-court offense -- comparatively to the how other teams have faired against the Spurs' defense.

Playing KT against other teams wouldn't slow down the Suns fast break, but it might have prevented a lot of the headaches of playing such a small lineup.

 

[azirish]

It's all about small ball. The record indicates that small ball works against nearly every team in the NBA. The Suns won 61 games in the far better conference this year even though KT lost almost a month of work (from Jan 15 to Feb 14).

The key is how the Suns use Marion. Marion at PF creates mismatches on offense because bigs cannot keep him from running backdoor plays nor keep up with him on the break. On defense, Marion is very good at playing denial and creating steals. He can play them very tight because there is little risk of the big man getting around him. The only threat is to be backed down, but quick double teams can disrupt that.

The downside of small ball is that it forces Amare to play post defense where he is vulnerable to getting into foul trouble. This a bigger problem against some opponents than others.

Part of what D'Antoni likes about small ball is that it is a "high energy" style. With the right personnle, it means pressing opponents, forcing turnovers and quick, contested shots. Against opponents who play a lot of "one on one" it is highly disruptive and forces them to play faster.

It works very well most of the time. Opponents either cut down their easy shot opportunities by slowing everything down or they get caught into a running game few can hope to win. Once teams get behind, they risk getting run off the court.

In 2004-05, the Suns won 63 games with Stephen "Hands of Stone" Hunter as the only big man off the bench. The Suns management recognized they needed to upgrade and went out to get KT. But they did not abandon the belief that speed ball works.

IMHO, the only team that requires a big lineup to stop is the Spurs. The Suns need to work on being able to use KT and Amare at the same time enough to prepare for the Spurs. But I don't expect them to go to a conventional style for most opponents.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Hopefully we sign Chris Mihm or get PJ Brown eaither one of those guys will work for me and they would be useful against the spurs. If we get eaither of the 2 though I bet it will be Chris Mihm. Hey is Jake Taskaladis still out their? lol jking

 

[Joe Mama]

This is D'Antoni's failure, IMO. As long as the center can spread the floor to allow room for Amare and Nash to work the two-man game at the elbow, why does the center need to run? I've not seen too many 5-on-less than 5 fast breaks in my life. In fact, the only time I've seen it was in rec league games when fat guys like me were too out of breath to run back to the other end of the court.

D'Antoni was forced to concede the Spurs had taken away most of the fast-break opportunities and opted to play KT more minutes. Low and behold, the Suns became a better half-court offense -- comparatively to the how other teams have faired against the Spurs' defense.

Playing KT against other teams wouldn't slow down the Suns fast break, but it might have prevented a lot of the headaches of playing such a small lineup.

amen. I'd rather Kurt Thomas did not play heavy minutes during the regular season because I want him healthy for the playoffs. The same goes for Steve Nash.

I've never understood why people think you have to have a 5 that can run. I'd much prefer a 5 who can defend and rebound the ball. After all, it's a lot easier to run on teams after a defensive stop, especially when you actually secure the rebound.

Joe Mama