Some names to watch at the Senior Bowl

[Buckybird]

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[ARZCardinals]

Senior bowl 2017
There was this no name Hassan Reddick who did outstanding.
Cardinals drafted him
Got nothing in return

Learn the Senior Bowl and combine mean NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every draft fools get ‘moved up’ due to combine and senior bowl...come nfl game day ...they suck

If the player could t do it on Saturdays at a high level they sure as hell won’t be able to do it on Sunday’s.

 

[Buckybird]

Senior bowl 2017
There was this no name Hassan Reddick who did outstanding.
Cardinals drafted him
Got nothing in return

Learn the Senior Bowl and combine mean NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As Lee Corso says “not so fast my friend”. I personally touted Reddick before the game last year & think he’s going to be a very good player still. We shall see but he did flash & many times the biggest improvement in an nfl player is year 2.

Patience grasshopper, this kid produced in college unlike Bustdiche

 

[Hypothesis]

generally speaking a 4-3 is going to employ bigger LB's with smaller DE's... but quickness, instincts, and the ability to deliver a hit is most important
our defense has lots of hybrid type players so while we dont really have a traditional 4-3 MLB...we can get by for a season or two with what we have. for MLB you want a guy who can diagnose the play and shed blocks... getting swallowed up by an olineman is very bad...a guy like Deone Bucannon is an anti-MLB...lol

You definitely want a thumper type MLB in the 43 but they are usually more in the 6 to 6”2 range and about 245-250. It's quite common for your olb's to be in the 220 range. Generally your 43 lbs are smaller than in the 34.

 

[oaken1]

I'm actually a fan of BM's fire and competitiveness, but I just don't see the upside. You mention Elway and Favre. What tools does Baker posses that leads you to believe he has this sort of upside? I see a QB that is barely 6 foot, low release point with good, but not great arm strength. AKA Russell Wilson with less arm strength and athletic ability. Doesn't scream high upside to me. More like Doug Flutie or better version of Tyrod Taylor

I think he has the rarest of tools. The ability to elevate the play of his team mates. None of the other QB's in this class look to have that.... or at least not as blatantly

 

[Veer]

I’m still not sure that’s this case!

Imo I just can’t see Elway passing on a basic clone of himself in Allen, in size, arm talent & movement in the pocket even though he’s not as accurate. If he’s even available at that pick!!! Think about it.

It may be a smokescreen or maybe not. It’s hard to believe that Elway is showing he’s holding 2 aces in his hand this early in the process. We shall see

Elway just drafted a basic clone of himself in Paxton Lynch. Honestly Paxton Lynch and EJ Manuel are the best comparisons I can find for Allen. Maybe Allen has better character and work ethic, but his ceiling is Joe Flacco imo. Can't improve accuracy that much. Allen will need a strong run game to hit on deep play action passes. I can't ever see him marching down the field completing multiple passes in a row. He can use his size and athleticism in the red zone like Cam Newton. But that's about it. If you can't pass accurately you will never be a good QB.

 

[Ronin]

Charles Davis
@CFD22

Feel like @PennStateFball WR DaeSean Hamilton gets better with each rep @seniorbowl - Good E/W week, too. Decisive routes/cuts. @NFLDraft

 

[Ronin]

Daniel Jeremiah
@MoveTheSticks

After watching the tape of yesterday's North practice, a couple players really jumped out- BC CB Isaac Yiadom (excellent positioning downfield) PSU WR DaeSean Hamilton (cleanest route runner) Pitt OT Brian O'Neil (zone run teams will love him)

 

[Ronin]

Daniel Jeremiah
@MoveTheSticks

Davenport is more comfortable in 2 pt stance. He's routinely late off the ball when his hand is in the ground. You can still see the flashes of strength/explosiveness but he hasn't had any pure speed wins. The ability is all there. Just needs some time.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Senior bowl 2017
There was this no name Hassan Reddick who did outstanding.
Cardinals drafted him
Got nothing in return

Learn the Senior Bowl and combine mean NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every draft fools get ‘moved up’ due to combine and senior bowl...come nfl game day ...they suck

If the player could t do it on Saturdays at a high level they sure as hell won’t be able to do it on Sunday’s.

Ok......Reddick played at a very high level his last year at Temple. Being from the Philly area, it was on display for all to see.

There are not guarantees to draft picks, it is a collection of the whole

 

[football karma]

As an aside:

if you listen to Wilks: lots of talk about teaching, development, etc. One quote on player development (more or less): "everyone knows what they are getting in rounds 1 and 2, but wealth is built in this league on the third round and later"

sure sounds to me like MB and SK went into this search with "can develop young players" as a key criteria / saw that as an area where they wanted to be better

 

[overseascardfan]

As an aside:

if you listen to Wilks: lots of talk about teaching, development, etc. One quote on player development (more or less): "everyone knows what they are getting in rounds 1 and 2, but wealth is built in this league on the third round and later"

sure sounds to me like MB and SK went into this search with "can develop young players" as a key criteria / saw that as an area where they wanted to be better

The flip side is yes develop late round talent but you shouldn’t be taking on long term projects like Brandon Williams in Round 3. Small school guys with skill and production who have some experience against high level competition should be your draft criteria. Guys who struggled or have little to no experience at a certain position need to be off your radar Keim.

 

[Ohcrap75]

I think you’re selling his arm short! He’s got a very good arm, go watch the Texas game from this year. 65 yard bomb on a rope! He doesn’t have Allen’s arm, but BM has got plenty of arm!

His anticipation on his throws & ball location is as good or better than anyone in this class! That’s why his completion % is so high. Often he throws guys open. He sets up quickly in the pocket & has a quick release. When his runs an RPO it’s like stealing because it comes out so fast. Oh & btw he reads coverages as well.

I promise you if he’s 6’4” most of his critics would be silent & he would probably be the top pick.

I like that you promise things that are hypothetical. There are plenty of prospects that you could add physical traits to that would increase their draft stock, but since most players don't grow or get substantially faster, I will choose to evaluate players as they are.

I would be fine with Cardinals taking Baker at 15. I just see some limitations in his game. He can over come these hurdles but time will tell. Best case is R Wilson, but I just don't think he has quite the physical tools that Wilson possess.

 

[Ronin]

Reese's Senior Bowl
@seniorbowl

From North practice, courtesy @ZebraTechnology - tracking players this week: Fastest Throw = Josh Allen – 66.14 MPH
Longest Throw = Tanner Lee – 54.7 yards
Highest Rotations Per Minute = Luke Falk 721.6 RPM
Most Throws = Luke Falk 112 throws

 

[Ohcrap75]

Reese's Senior Bowl
@seniorbowl

From North practice, courtesy @ZebraTechnology - tracking players this week: Fastest Throw = Josh Allen – 66.14 MPH
Longest Throw = Tanner Lee – 54.7 yards
Highest Rotations Per Minute = Luke Falk 721.6 RPM
Most Throws = Luke Falk 112 throws

Any idea what the fastest throw was from previous years? Just curious because many touting Allen of having a once in a generation arm.

 

[Veer]

Allen entering Skelton territory with his fastball!

 

[Southpaw]

I’ve never wanted the Cards to draft a QB more in many years. Too bad Keim & Wilks aren’t there.

WTH are they?

 

[Chopper0080]

Senior bowl 2017
There was this no name Hassan Reddick who did outstanding.
Cardinals drafted him
Got nothing in return

Learn the Senior Bowl and combine mean NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every draft fools get ‘moved up’ due to combine and senior bowl...come nfl game day ...they suck

If the player could t do it on Saturdays at a high level they sure as hell won’t be able to do it on Sunday’s.

It all depends on the whole story...here is Reddick's issue. He was a walk on. It took him a couple years before he was able to stand out vs college competition. When he was successful, it was mostly because he was a smaller edge rusher who won with speed against marginal OTs. He then goes to an all star game, and gets credit for doing what he should, which is play well vs average Sr. college athletes. Essentially, against the guys who weren't talented enough to get drafted highly as Jrs. We then bought the hype, and selected him in the first round vs under standing that he had a cap in terms of his physical abilities and would have to make a position change in the NFL.

From there, it is all about your entry point. If Reddick is a 2nd round pick, we would not be upset because we drafted a project with upside and there would not have been an expectation of immediate return. However, because Reddick was selected in the first round, and the Cardinals sold the fans on him being a difference making player, we are now disappointed that he was not a playmaker in his first year.

When it comes to scouting, and projecting college players, you have to look at a couple different areas.

Does the player have the requisite measurables to play the position at the NFL level?
Was a player productive in college?
Why, or why wasn't, the player productive in college?
Is that project-able to the NFL?
Is it project-able to how the position is used in our scheme?

AND THEN, you get to character and work ethic.

If you look at Reddick in this way, here is how you break him down.

-Yes. Reddick has the measurables to play a 3-4 ILB at the NFL level. He does not have the measurables to play 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE at the NFL level.

-Yes, Reddick was a productive player in his last two years of college.

-Reddick was productive as a speed rusher off the edge of the defense, consistently using speed to beat OTs around the edge. He also blended a bit if power to complement this.

-As a pure speed rusher off the edge, Reddick does not show the rare speed to consistently beat NFL OTs with a speed rush only. Due to his size, he also does not show the ability to complement that speed rush with a bull rush against NFL OTs. Therefore, how he was productive in college is not translatable to the NFL as a DE or EDGE rusher.

-If Reddick transitions to an ILB in a 3-4 scheme, his use of speed in space will be translatable to the NFL, however he will need time to adjust to learning a new position.

After this, you would look at the character and work ethic. Reddick showed in these areas that you would expect him to be willing to put in the work to adjust to this position change.

To Bucky's point, I do believe that Reddick sticks around in the NFL. He has the necessary level of athleticism to do so. He seems to have the work ethic that is also required. However, I don't have any reason to believe that he will be a difference maker with what we have seen so far to date. That is what could lead him to have a Deone Bucannon type of career arc. A player who underachieves due to his draft position vs what he showed in college.

 

[Southpaw]

Elway just drafted a basic clone of himself in Paxton Lynch. Honestly Paxton Lynch and EJ Manuel are the best comparisons I can find for Allen. Maybe Allen has better character and work ethic, but his ceiling is Joe Flacco imo. Can't improve accuracy that much. Allen will need a strong run game to hit on deep play action passes. I can't ever see him marching down the field completing multiple passes in a row. He can use his size and athleticism in the red zone like Cam Newton. But that's about it. If you can't pass accurately you will never be a good QB.

Just wondering if you watched many of his games?

 

[Southpaw]

As an aside:

if you listen to Wilks: lots of talk about teaching, development, etc. One quote on player development (more or less): "everyone knows what they are getting in rounds 1 and 2, but wealth is built in this league on the third round and later"

sure sounds to me like MB and SK went into this search with "can develop young players" as a key criteria / saw that as an area where they wanted to be better

Condemnation of BA and his staff?

 

[JeffGollin]

WTH are they?

Hopefully holed up at a cheap airport motel in Philly or Minneapolis having a below-the-radar gabfest with the Flipster.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Senior bowl 2017
There was this no name Hassan Reddick who did outstanding.
Cardinals drafted him
Got nothing in return

Learn the Senior Bowl and combine mean NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every draft fools get ‘moved up’ due to combine and senior bowl...come nfl game day ...they suck

If the player could t do it on Saturdays at a high level they sure as hell won’t be able to do it on Sunday’s.

This is just so wrong. They spend millions to get these players on display. Teams spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their people to these events, and it means nothing....COME-ON-MAN!

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that it doesn't have meaning.

 

[football karma]

Condemnation of BA and his staff?

condemnation too strong a word, but sure seems like an attribute they wanted improvement on

 

[ARZCardinals]

It all depends on the whole story...here is Reddick's issue. He was a walk on. It took him a couple years before he was able to stand out vs college competition. When he was successful, it was mostly because he was a smaller edge rusher who won with speed against marginal OTs. He then goes to an all star game, and gets credit for doing what he should, which is play well vs average Sr. college athletes. Essentially, against the guys who weren't talented enough to get drafted highly as Jrs. We then bought the hype, and selected him in the first round vs under standing that he had a cap in terms of his physical abilities and would have to make a position change in the NFL.

From there, it is all about your entry point. If Reddick is a 2nd round pick, we would not be upset because we drafted a project with upside and there would not have been an expectation of immediate return. However, because Reddick was selected in the first round, and the Cardinals sold the fans on him being a difference making player, we are now disappointed that he was not a playmaker in his first year.

When it comes to scouting, and projecting college players, you have to look at a couple different areas.

Does the player have the requisite measurables to play the position at the NFL level?
Was a player productive in college?
Why, or why wasn't, the player productive in college?
Is that project-able to the NFL?
Is it project-able to how the position is used in our scheme?

AND THEN, you get to character and work ethic.

If you look at Reddick in this way, here is how you break him down.

-Yes. Reddick has the measurables to play a 3-4 ILB at the NFL level. He does not have the measurables to play 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE at the NFL level.

-Yes, Reddick was a productive player in his last two years of college.

-Reddick was productive as a speed rusher off the edge of the defense, consistently using speed to beat OTs around the edge. He also blended a bit if power to complement this.

-As a pure speed rusher off the edge, Reddick does not show the rare speed to consistently beat NFL OTs with a speed rush only. Due to his size, he also does not show the ability to complement that speed rush with a bull rush against NFL OTs. Therefore, how he was productive in college is not translatable to the NFL as a DE or EDGE rusher.

-If Reddick transitions to an ILB in a 3-4 scheme, his use of speed in space will be translatable to the NFL, however he will need time to adjust to learning a new position.

After this, you would look at the character and work ethic. Reddick showed in these areas that you would expect him to be willing to put in the work to adjust to this position change.

To Bucky's point, I do believe that Reddick sticks around in the NFL. He has the necessary level of athleticism to do so. He seems to have the work ethic that is also required. However, I don't have any reason to believe that he will be a difference maker with what we have seen so far to date. That is what could lead him to have a Deone Bucannon type of career arc. A player who underachieves due to his draft position vs what he showed in college.

You could work for Steve Keim or Rod Graves

It's silliness like this that got you him picked in the 1st round....sounds like you are ready to do it again.

I'll take Ruben Foster all day every day at the pick we had. He PRODUCED in college and he produced in the pro's.

It's attitudes like that that kill me. You have seen these guys get drafted due to senior bowl or combine....and they never pull their weight in the pros.

Do you pick a guy for what they did on their team for 4 years? OR
Pick a guy for what he did for 1 week of practice....one meaningless game....that is a 'me' fest and some routes and weight lifting?

I wouldn't even send guys to the senior bowl or combine other than to conduct interviews.

 

[Veer]

Just wondering if you watched many of his games?

4 tapes! In one he looked like a legit 1st round QB beating up a minor team. In another he was okay but his receivers let him down, could've been bad ball placement too, hard to judge. In two games he looked undraftable or late round developing project. Quite honestly he reminds me more of Logan Thomas than EJ Manuel or Paxton Lynch. Ugh.