Sportscenter: Ravens have contacted Cardinals to offer 1st and 3rd

[AZ Native]

I still think trading Boldin will be a mistake... I think people on this board are underestimating Boldin's impact.

I agree. Q brings it every game. Draft picks, maybe? I'll keep Q.

 

[WildBB]

I still think trading Boldin will be a mistake... I think people on this board are underestimating Boldin's impact.

And underestimating the value of a REAL running game. I like Boldin. He's a force' especially in the Red Zone. I'd hate to go into the playoffs w/o him.

Can we do right by Wilson now?! Does that leave any manuevering room to get Boldin what he feels he needs?!

 

[Shogun]

And underestimating the value of a REAL running game. I like Boldin. He's a force' especially in the Red Zone. I'd hate to go into the playoffs w/o him.

Can we do right by Wilson now?! Does that leave any manuevering room to get Boldin what he feels he needs?!

You can run those same red zone pick screens with Fitzgerald.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You can run those same red zone pick screens with Fitzgerald.

And Doucet.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I would say yes to the deal with the caveat that it isnt finalized till midnight the day of the draft. If an offer that comes in better we have the right to take it. If not he is yours.

I like that idea.

Raven fans want Boldin: http://www.ravens24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37510

A deal like this may not happen UNTIL draft day to see if the player the Cards really want is still on the board when Ravens/Jets/whoever are on the clock.

maybe agreed to in principle..."If player X is on the board we make the deal, if he is gone forget it(or you sweeten the deal)"

At least thats how I would do it if I was the GM.

Like this one even better.

I still think trading Boldin will be a mistake... I think people on this board are underestimating Boldin's impact.

I don't think people are underestimating Boldin's impact at all. I think they, like me, see that he is not very happy with management. I think they, like me, are worried about the chemistry thing if he is made to play out his contract and a new deal is not done because, as we know, the Cards have other players with which to negotiate. I think that they, like me, can see that the Cards can fix problems at other positions by making a trade. And, I think they, like me, believe our other wide receivers will be able to carry the load.

 

[CtCardinals78]

It will be a sad day in Cardinal land if Q is traded that's for sure.

 

[Evil Ash]

I don't think people are underestimating Boldin's impact at all. I think they, like me, see that he is not very happy with management. I think they, like me, are worried about the chemistry thing if he is made to play out his contract and a new deal is not done because, as we know, the Cards have other players with which to negotiate. I think that they, like me, can see that the Cards can fix problems at other positions by making a trade. And, I think they, like me, believe our other wide receivers will be able to carry the load.

Its not just the chemistry thing. Its the fact that Boldin's style of play will massively shorten his career. Its the fact we can't afford to spend a large chunk of our cap on the WR position (if we extended Boldin, we'd be paying well over $20 million on WR and that's with Breaston needing an extension soon).

There are many things that are being factored into this.

 

[Goldfield]

Cant spend all the cap on 2 wr's. Just cant.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Its not just the chemistry thing. Its the fact that Boldin's style of play will massively shorten his career. Its the fact we can't afford to spend a large chunk of our cap on the WR position (if we extended Boldin, we'd be paying well over $20 million on WR and that's with Breaston needing an extension soon).
There are many things that are being factored into this.

That's kind of what I meant by having the other wide receivers carrying the load and having others players with which to negotiate. We can restructure Boldin's contract, but at which position/player's expense? There is a reason that team's don't have three 1,000 yard receivers ... they have to pay OTHER players, too.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Cant spend all the cap on 2 wr's. Just cant.

 

[Shane]

That's kind of what I meant by having the other wide receivers carrying the load and having others players with which to negotiate. We can restructure Boldin's contract, but at which position/player's expense? There is a reason that team's don't have three 1,000 yard receivers ... they have to pay OTHER players, too.

Colts have managed to have a 100 million dollar QB and two highly paid WR's for quite some time and they managed to remain very good for more than half a decade. It can be done if the team knows what they are doing. BUUUTTT

 

[Jersey Girl]

Colts have managed to have a 100 million dollar QB and two highly paid WR's for quite some time and they mange to remain very good for more than half a decade. It can be done if the team knwos what they are doing. BUUUTTT

Well, there's that, too, I suppose. Can't change the past though.

 

[Shane]

Well, there's that, too, I suppose. Can't change the past though.

Really the money is just an excuse. Nothing more. We could pay them both if we WANTED to.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Really the money is just an excuse. Nothing more. We could pay them both if we WANTED to.

Perhaps, but I don't think you can mortgage this year at the expense of future years. Likewise, you can't throw the motherload at WRs and leave other positions hanging. I don't think there is that much money to go around.

 

[Duckjake]

Perhaps, but I don't think you can mortgage this year at the expense of future years. Likewise, you can't throw the motherload at WRs and leave other positions hanging. I don't think there is that much money to go around.

I agree with those who think the Cards do need to mortgage this year and the next at the expense of future years. The team is loaded with veteran players and the problems they are having with several of them relating to contracts shows how hard it is to keep things together.

We don't have a single position where we need a rookie. Not a single position where we have an aging veteran with only a year or two left without someone already on the roster to take his place other than the one OLB slot occupied by Okeafor and Haggens and we've got this draft plus FA and the draft in 2010 to replace them.

I think the Cards see that as well as indicated by the contract given to Warner.

We need to keep our veterans not acquire more draft picks for 2009. The time to win is now.

 

[football karma]

I agree with those who think the Cards do need to mortgage this year and the next at the expense of future years. The team is loaded with veteran players and the problems they are having with several of them relating to contracts shows how hard it is to keep things together.

We don't have a single position where we need a rookie. Not a single position where we have an aging veteran with only a year or two left without someone already on the roster to take his place other than the one OLB slot occupied by Okeafor and Haggens and we've got this draft plus FA and the draft in 2010 to replace them.

I think the Cards see that as well as indicated by the contract given to Warner.

We need to keep our veterans not acquire more draft picks for 2009. The time to win is now.

Bingo

three years (and even two) is an eternity in the NFL. If the stars have aligned for the Cards for 2009 and 2010 (which, btw will be the years prior to any potential work stoppage) -- you have to go for it.

 

[joeshmo]

Colts have managed to have a 100 million dollar QB and two highly paid WR's for quite some time and they managed to remain very good for more than half a decade. It can be done if the team knows what they are doing. BUUUTTT

They did not ever have two highly paid WR's. Harrison only got a big bonus, but over all his deal was greatly back loaded and constantly restructured with more bonus money every year to lower his cap hit, same with Manning by the way.

In 2007 that duo's total salary was under 10 mill.
In 2008 that duo's total salary was between 11 and 12 mill.

In 2008 Fitz total salary alone was 17 mill.

If Boldin got his 8-10 mill that he wants are WR salary would be double that of the Colts from 2008.

 

[joeshmo]

Really the money is just an excuse. Nothing more. We could pay them both if we WANTED to.

Of course you can. If you have enough bonus money to throw around you can do anything. Ask the Redskins. But are owners are not as rich as them and cannot afford to throw around 100 mill in bonus ever year to make things work under the cap.

And you can get around the cap by throwing more money at it.

 

[JeffGollin]

A couple of things (only loosely related):

1. On Sports Center last night, they asked each member of the 3-man panel of "experts" whether they thought Boldin would be a Cardinal next year. The first 2 guys said "Yes." I suspect the 3rd did too (only my DVR cut the program off at that point).

2. My newest pet theory: It all has to do with Edge.

I keep hearing that the Cards are cap-squeezed - so much so that they can't sign both Boldin and Dansby. Releasing or trading Edge would give the Cards cap-relief, only Rod and Wiz don't want to pull the trigger only to find themselves with just Hightower and Wright going into next season.

So what they may be doing is putting the Boldin and Dansby negotiations "on hold" pending the resolution of the Edge issue on Draft Day - specifically: If they can land the RB they want (probably Wells, Moreno or possibly D Brown), they'd then release Edge, free up the dollars and immediately sign Boldin and Dansby to extensions.

But if they can't draft Wells, Moreno or D Brown (or conceivably trade for someone like Larry Johnson or bring in Deuce McAllister for cheap), they'll then keep Edge and revert to Plan B or C with regard to Boldin and/or Dansby.

These backup plans might involve (a) trading Boldin (at the point in the draft where Wells and Moreno and maybe D Brown dropped off the edge of the earth) or (b) cutting other players to free up the money - and then re-signing Boldin and Dansby.

In either case, the Boldin and Dansby situations would, if I'm right, be "on hold" til draft day.

 

[Duckjake]

Of course you can. If you have enough bonus money to throw around you can do anything. Ask the Redskins. But are owners are not as rich as them and cannot afford to throw around 100 mill in bonus ever year to make things work under the cap.

And you can get around the cap by throwing more money at it.

True. There is a big difference between being "cap squeezed" and being "cash squeezed". You can have plenty of cap room and still not be able to do contracts because of insufficient money to pay the bonuses. In that case no players current contract is interfering with a teams' ability to sign or extend anyone.

Lack of cash to pay signing bonuses was the Cardinals biggest problem for years. One former poster on Cards Corner with purported ties to the team said it was the reason they had hold outs every year. The team had to wait for the TV money to come in to pay the bonus. I guess he was correct because hold outs have become much less of a problem since the stadium with its increased revenue stream opened.

I even saw an interview with the Colts GM a couple of years ago where he talked about the problem of having the money to pay the up front bonuses. So it is not a problem unique to the Bidwills.

 

[lobo]

Really the money is just an excuse. Nothing more. We could pay them both if we WANTED to.

Who is we?? Do you sign the checks?? Anything short of wearing the dark suits is strictly speculation. This ain't the Cardinals of old since Michael took the bridge. They spend the money where they have to. If the Dansby's/Boldins of the world think they can do better $$$ wise, that is their perogative....go for it. Do you think if the "old man" would spring for a ten spot for no.11 or whatever the deal was for Warner?? The team ("we") have a deep roster now and "we" need to redistribute the money....heard of that recently?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

"we" need to redistribute the money....heard of that recently?

What do you mean? Shane just gave me 19 million ASFN bucks; he is well aware of the concept!

 

[Duckjake]

They did not ever have two highly paid WR's. Harrison only got a big bonus, but over all his deal was greatly back loaded and constantly restructured with more bonus money every year to lower his cap hit, same with Manning by the way.

In 2007 that duo's total salary was under 10 mill.
In 2008 that duo's total salary was between 11 and 12 mill.

In 2008 Fitz total salary alone was 17 mill.

If Boldin got his 8-10 mill that he wants are WR salary would be double that of the Colts from 2008.

According to USA today Wayne and Harrison's cap value was 18 million. Manning another 18 million. $36 million for 3 guys. Double the cap hit for Fitz,Warner and Boldin.

Fitz salary for 2008 was only $2million. The rest of the $17m was bonus. Cards total salary for the 2 WRs was $5 million. Again half of the Colts.

Just exactly what counts as salary and what is bonus?

 

[football karma]

According to USA today Wayne and Harrison's cap value was 18 million. Manning another 18 million. $36 million for 3 guys. Double the cap hit for Fitz,Warner and Boldin.

Fitz salary for 2008 was only $2million. The rest of the $17m was bonus. Cards total salary for the 2 WRs was $5 million. Again half of the Colts.

Just exactly what counts as salary and what is bonus?

Assuming Boldin gets a new deal that averages a $8mm cap hit annually (reportedly what he would be satisfied with) -- that would bring Fitz and Boldin to a collective $18 mm cap hit ---

adding Warner's $10mm (heck, add Leinart and St Pierre with an additional $5mm for both) and you are still less than the Colts

No question, the contracts the Colts had forced them to make difficult choices elsewhere -- Edge among them. They also had a steady stream of solid but unspectacular defensive starters leave in free agency.

 

[Duckjake]

Assuming Boldin gets a new deal that averages a $8mm cap hit annually (reportedly what he would be satisfied with) -- that would bring Fitz and Boldin to a collective $18 mm cap hit ---

adding Warner's $10mm (heck, add Leinart and St Pierre with an additional $5mm for both) and you are still less than the Colts

No question, the contracts the Colts had forced them to make difficult choices elsewhere -- Edge among them. They also had a steady stream of solid but unspectacular defensive starters leave in free agency.

The Colts have an amazing organization. Going into the 2006 season they had every first round draft pick dating back to 1996 still on the team with one exception. Edgerrin James who left that year for Arizona.

EDIT: That's the equivalent of the Cards having Simeon Rice, Tom Knight,Andre Wadsworth, David Boston, Leonard Davis, Wendall Bryant, Bryant Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Antrel Rolle, and Matt Leinart still on the team and starting in 2006.