Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Episode VII)

[Chaz]

Spoiler

Why would they have to do away with him?

Spoiler

closure. It helps move the story to the next generation.

 

[Proteus]

I liked this movie a lot better when it was called A New Hope.

 

[Bert]

I'm a huge Star Wars fan and felt exactly the same way. I left the theater content that it was fun and that Rey was a kick-ass character and Solo felt like Solo, but the further I got away from it, the more disappointed I am in that it played everything so freaking straight/safe... even though that's exactly what I expected from JJ. That said, I'm a HUGE fan of Rian Johnson and think he can do something special with the next one if he's not hamstrung by what came before.

That's what we (we being me and my daughters) loves so much. Rey was so freaking awesome. Made the movie for us. They are bummed that Halloween is so far away cuz they both want to be her.


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[Phrazbit]

I always believed the title "Return Of The Jedi" was in reference to Anakin defeating Vader at the end and returning to the Jedi to end the Emperor's reign and bring balance to the force again, thus making the prophecy come true... albeit a day late and a billion Alderanians short.

That works too. He balanced it on both ends, wiped out the Jedi order and the Sith.

Spoiler

My only real complaint would be yet another Death Starish weapon. I get that these power mad bad guys probably don't want to give up on the idea but as an audience... we've been down this road too many times. Other than that it was an absolutely awesome movie.

 

[Covert Rain]

Spoiler

I agree with many points about rehash but I think it's more calculated than you think. I thinks it's the concept of what has happened before will happen again. Having said that I hope we are DONE with anything resembling a Death Star.

I will say that although I still don't buy Rey's quick awakenings it's still a great movie.

Surprisingly the movie was better the second time around for me. The cast was great and this by far blows the prequels away and is easily my 2nd favorite Star Wars. ANH was weak aside from it being ground breaking and ROTJ has always been a mixed bag of good and silly.

 

[Phrazbit]

...

Surprisingly the movie was better the second time around for me. The cast was great and this by far blows the prequels away and is easily my 2nd favorite Star Wars. ANH was weak aside from it being ground breaking and ROTJ has always been a mixed bag of good and silly.

You might want to put some of that in spoiler tags, not that they're anything too huge but I know if I hadn't seen it yet and read that post I'd be annoyed.

Spoiler

But I do agree that the 'history repeating itself' aspect is intentional and fits with what we know of the Star Wars mythology.
But honestly, her adapting to the force quickly didn't bother me. Like I said, Luke grew crazy powerful between 5 & 6 and without being mentored in between, and Luke psychologically was in a much darker place than her. She seemed to show the "light side" qualities (patience, understanding) before having any comprehension of the force.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Spoiler

But I do agree that the 'history repeating itself' aspect is intentional and fits with what we know of the Star Wars mythology.
But honestly, her adapting to the force quickly didn't bother me. Like I said, Luke grew crazy powerful between 5 & 6 and without being mentored in between, and Luke psychologically was in a much darker place than her. She seemed to show the "light side" qualities (patience, understanding) before having any comprehension of the force.

Spoiler

No one has thought of the fact that Rey might have unconsciously picked up knowledge of the Force and its usage when she accidentally found herself in Kylo's thoughts.

 

[Stout]

Yeah, I was a little more disappointed on the second viewing. Still an awesome movie, but the coincidences were quite strained, and the other criticisms stuck out. The Rey character is what really makes the movie work so well.

 

[Covert Rain]

Spoiler

But honestly, her adapting to the force quickly didn't bother me. Like I said, Luke grew crazy powerful between 5 & 6 and without being mentored in between, and Luke psychologically was in a much darker place than her. She seemed to show the "light side" qualities (patience, understanding) before having any comprehension of the force.

Spoiler

I would expect Rey to struggle using the Force. I would expect her to struggle using her force powers like Luke but at the same time learn to use them on the fly. I am OK with that.

Luke at least had time with a lightsaber. Rey had never picked one up. Kylo no matter how little training, Kylo still trained with Luke and Snoke. My guess is that Kylo was wounded by Chewie so maybe he wasn't at full strength. Rey was on the defensive which was realistic but where it fell apart for me is when she said "the force". Then all of the sudden her skill level went to 100. It was one of the weakest moments for me in the movie. You simply can't "understand" the force as evident in the prequels and other cannon that Jedi usually start training early in life. Also, they have never depicted Jedi or Sith being able to read minds and pick up powers that way. The Sith probably never would have slaughtered all the Jedi you would think.

Again, it sounds like it's a major complaint but it really isn't. I enjoyed the movie and thought it was great. I just think it would have been more realistic for her to use "force push" or "force pull" to get her out of the jam (that goes along with her experimenting with the force) verses becoming an instant bad-A with a lightsaber.

Oh well...if I could suspend believe with Luke training with Yoda for what seemed like days I can forgive this. I want to see this a 3rd time.

 

[Bert]

Spoiler

I would expect Rey to struggle using the Force. I would expect her to struggle using her force powers like Luke but at the same time learn to use them on the fly. I am OK with that.

Luke at least had time with a lightsaber. Rey had never picked one up. Kylo no matter how little training, Kylo still trained with Luke and Snoke. My guess is that Kylo was wounded by Chewie so maybe he wasn't at full strength. Rey was on the defensive which was realistic but where it fell apart for me is when she said "the force". Then all of the sudden her skill level went to 100. It was one of the weakest moments for me in the movie. You simply can't "understand" the force as evident in the prequels and other cannon that Jedi usually start training early in life. Also, they have never depicted Jedi or Sith being able to read minds and pick up powers that way. The Sith probably never would have slaughtered all the Jedi you would think.

Again, it sounds like it's a major complaint but it really isn't. I enjoyed the movie and thought it was great. I just think it would have been more realistic for her to use "force push" or "force pull" to get her out of the jam (that goes along with her experimenting with the force) verses becoming an instant bad-A with a lightsaber.

Oh well...if I could suspend believe with Luke training with Yoda for what seemed like days I can forgive this. I want to see this a 3rd time.

Spoiler

couple of things stuck out to me on the 2nd viewing, things we had discussed.

I noticed Snoke saying; "Even you, the master of the knights of Ren" and then in the vision with the bodies on the ground, there were like 8 or 9 guys with him.

So, just purely a theory, lol cuz I was thinkin bout our convo in the movie. Maybe Kylo turned a bunch of Lukes students against him. Like he corrupted them by showing them the powers of the dark side and then they together took down the other students, obviously they couldn't kill Luke. Just a theory. Whaddya think?

 

[Zeno]

Spoiler

couple of things stuck out to me on the 2nd viewing, things we had discussed.

I noticed Snoke saying; "Even you, the master of the knights of Ren" and then in the vision with the bodies on the ground, there were like 8 or 9 guys with him.

So, just purely a theory, lol cuz I was thinkin bout our convo in the movie. Maybe Kylo turned a bunch of Lukes students against him. Like he corrupted them by showing them the powers of the dark side and then they together took down the other students, obviously they couldn't kill Luke. Just a theory. Whaddya think?

Spoiler

Only Kylo had a lightsaber among that group, the others had blasters, a staff and something looks like some over the top bladed weapon from a Japanese comic

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Episode 8 has a lot of questions to answer...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Episode 8 has a lot of questions to answer...

Don't expect any. JJ loves asking big questions and NEVER providing any answers. See... Well... Every thing he's ever made for proof of that.

I gotta tell you, I'm surprised at how much people are giving this movie a pass for "rehashing" so many elements from ANH. The further I get away from this, the less I like it. It was like the Star Wars version of Hangover 2. The utter lack of ANYTHING new really bothers me. And from a plot POV, the movie started with a search for a macguffin... Then like 2/3 of the way through completely ignored that plot, making the last act all about taking down the first order... and then had the laziest Deus ex machina ever to get back to the original plot... Which ultimately didn't matter anyway.

 

[Zeno]

Don't expect any. JJ loves asking big questions and NEVER providing any answers. See... Well... Every thing he's ever made for proof of that.

I gotta tell you, I'm surprised at how much people are giving this movie a pass for "rehashing" so many elements from ANH. The further I get away from this, the less I like it. It was like the Star Wars version of Hangover 2. The utter lack of ANYTHING new really bothers me. And from a plot POV, the movie started with a search for a macguffin... Then like 2/3 of the way through completely ignored that plot, making the last act all about taking down the first order... and then had the laziest Deus ex machina ever to get back to the original plot... Which ultimately didn't matter anyway.

Supposedly JJ added some things for Rian Johnson in to the film, probably subtle things I would guess. These were supposedly done so Johnson could move forward with the story and answer some of the questions left hanging at least.

I just hope we are done with world destroying weapons from here on out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Supposedly JJ added some things for Rian Johnson in to the film, probably subtle things I would guess. These were supposedly done so Johnson could move forward with the story and answer some of the questions left hanging at least.

I just hope we are done with world destroying weapons from here on out.

Not just that, but it felt like the world destroying weapon was destroyed not only VERY easily, but almost as an after thought.

I'm gonna see it again, but I have a feeling I'm going to dislike it even more the next time and that Rey and Han will be the only things that save me from outright hating the movie in the long-run.

Expecting a lot more from Rian. None of his films have been blockbusters, but all of them have been really good/interesting with fresh ideas.

 

[cardfaninfl]

I just hope we are done with world destroying weapons from here on out.

At one point my youngest son turned to me and asked, "Does anyone believe it won't be destroyed by the Rebels... again?"

 

[Bert]

Not just that, but it felt like the world destroying weapon was destroyed not only VERY easily, but almost as an after thought.

I'm gonna see it again, but I have a feeling I'm going to dislike it even more the next time and that Rey and Han will be the only things that save me from outright hating the movie in the long-run.

Expecting a lot more from Rian. None of his films have been blockbusters, but all of them have been really good/interesting with fresh ideas.

*Playful tone, not trying to get on your case here.

Good lord dude, "hating" it? I mean it was far from perfect but I feel like you are having an overly strong reaction here my friend. Maybe see it again because you only saw it the one time yet you're posting every day that you're liking it less and less lol. Maybe all the praise is making you like it less rather than the movie itself? You are a bit of a rebel.

 

[Chaz]

Don't expect any. JJ loves asking big questions and NEVER providing any answers. See... Well... Every thing he's ever made for proof of that.

I gotta tell you, I'm surprised at how much people are giving this movie a pass for "rehashing" so many elements from ANH. The further I get away from this, the less I like it. It was like the Star Wars version of Hangover 2. The utter lack of ANYTHING new really bothers me. And from a plot POV, the movie started with a search for a macguffin... Then like 2/3 of the way through completely ignored that plot, making the last act all about taking down the first order... and then had the laziest Deus ex machina ever to get back to the original plot... Which ultimately didn't matter anyway.

Spoiler

The goal and main plot of the movie was the search to find Luke. It was the first section of the crawl. The macguffin at the beginning (used to introduce Rey) was resolved in the second act when it was returned to the Resistance and Rey was captured. The fact that the First Order turned a cold war into a hot one necessitated taking down their base/weapon.

I agree that there were a lot of similarities especially in the third act but I disagree that it was a kind of carbon copy of the original. I also think that they were 'playing it safe' for this first installment of the new trilogy.

 

[crisper57]

Spoiler

JJ really wanted to eliminate any speculation that Han Solo survived. First he is impaled by a lightsaber. Then, he drops him several hundred stories from a bridge, then, for good measure, he turns the base/planet where he is left behind into a star.

Personally, I would have preferred a more meaningful, heroic death. It did nothing but serve to develop the guy from Girls into a meaningful villain. I think he went out like a chump.

 

[Chaz]

Spoiler

JJ really wanted to eliminate any speculation that Han Solo survived. First he is impaled by a lightsaber. Then, he drops him several hundred stories from a bridge, then, for good measure, he turns the base/planet where he is left behind into a star.

Personally, I would have preferred a more meaningful, heroic death. It did nothing but serve to develop the guy from Girls into a meaningful villain. I think he went out like a chump.

Spoiler

He was trying to redeem his son and himself as father.

He always seemed more anti-hero than hero to me anyway. I don't understand the need for a heroic death and the anger from a lot of people. I imagine that Harrison Ford is relieved he won't still be playing this character into his 80s

 

[crisper57]

Spoiler

He was trying to redeem his son and himself as father.

He always seemed more anti-hero than hero to me anyway. I don't understand the need for a heroic death and the anger from a lot of people. I imagine that Harrison Ford is relieved he won't still be playing this character into his 80s

Spoiler

Screw that, Indiana Jones survived a nuclear explosion, but Han Solo can't survive a little poke from a laser sword? Wuss!

I think the redemption arc could have been accomplished with a bit more heroics. I would have preferred if Solo had died interjecting himself between his son and a helpless opponent (Finn or Rey), trying to talk him down, and then getting gutted unexpectedly. Then if the new heroes have to stand on their own, he at least bought them some time to recover and fight on.

Instead, he sought his son out during a quiet moment and his death accomplished nothing. It literally made no difference to the characters that are supposed to take up the torch (other than being sad).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Spoiler

Screw that, Indiana Jones survived a nuclear explosion, but Han Solo can't survive a little poke from a laser sword? Wuss!

I think the redemption arc could have been accomplished with a bit more heroics. I would have preferred if Solo had died interjecting himself between his son and a helpless opponent (Finn or Rey), trying to talk him down, and then getting gutted unexpectedly. Then if the new heroes have to stand on their own, he at least bought them some time to recover and fight on.

Instead, he sought his son out during a quiet moment and his death accomplished nothing. It literally made no difference to the characters that are supposed to take up the torch (other than being sad).

Yup.

 

[Cheesebeef]

*Playful tone, not trying to get on your case here.

Good lord dude, "hating" it? I mean it was far from perfect but I feel like you are having an overly strong reaction here my friend. Maybe see it again because you only saw it the one time yet you're posting every day that you're liking it less and less lol. Maybe all the praise is making you like it less rather than the movie itself? You are a bit of a rebel.

I don't really care about the praise. I came out of the movie entertained, but it's just really left a sour taste in my mouth the more I think about it. It was just such recycled story telling and I think in a couple years, it's gonna get the Avatar "Ferngully" treatment.

 

[Stout]

Don't expect any. JJ loves asking big questions and NEVER providing any answers. See... Well... Every thing he's ever made for proof of that.

I gotta tell you, I'm surprised at how much people are giving this movie a pass for "rehashing" so many elements from ANH. The further I get away from this, the less I like it. It was like the Star Wars version of Hangover 2. The utter lack of ANYTHING new really bothers me. And from a plot POV, the movie started with a search for a macguffin... Then like 2/3 of the way through completely ignored that plot, making the last act all about taking down the first order... and then had the laziest Deus ex machina ever to get back to the original plot... Which ultimately didn't matter anyway.

I'm with you, Cheese. I liked it a lot less on 2nd viewing, though I'm hopeful moving forward--I don't think there's any possible way they do the same schtick in the next movie. I certainly didn't hate it, but the holes were much more prominent on the 2nd viewing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Spoiler

The goal and main plot of the movie was the search to find Luke. It was the first section of the crawl. The macguffin at the beginning (used to introduce Rey) was resolved in the second act when it was returned to the Resistance and Rey was captured. The fact that the First Order turned a cold war into a hot one necessitated taking down their base/weapon.

Thats why it's awful plotting. Resolving your McGuffin at the end of the 2nd act (which they didn't even do... They just put it on hold until magically, the answer appeared later) and then starting the last act with an entire different objective made the pacing of the movie feel schizo to me and probably why the Big Bang at the end felt completely anti-climactic.

It was like they set out with a mission statement of what the movie was supposed
To be about, then realized there was no big ending and then just lopped on the end of ANH/Jedi to the movie they alread made and then got back to the "plot" of the movie... which seemingly didn't matter all that much anymore.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm with you, Cheese. I liked it a lot less on 2nd viewing, though I'm hopeful moving forward--I don't think there's any possible way they do the same schtick in the next movie. I certainly didn't hate it, but the holes were much more prominent on the 2nd viewing.

Yeah... I like the Rey character A LOT. She's a great protagonist and will be interesting to watch her training, but the biggest thing moving forward that worries me is the bad guys just didn't seem scary, powerful or all that smart at all. And in movies like this, your story is usually only as good as your villain and some whiney fanboy who literally only wears a mask because... Well.... Because it looks
Cool? Just doesn't seem all that intimidating.