You do realize that A) the actual narrative thrust of the Jedi wasn't destroy the Death Star, right? That was the B plot of the movie. The A plot of the movie was Luke having to bring his father back from the dark side and defeating the Emperor. That was the climax of the entire series. The Death Star was just a complication. Trying to argue otherwise is an exercise in futility.
Did you notice I said main goal and said plot device? Star Wars has always been a soap opera about family that happens to be in space. Lucas has stated that in several interviews. So, I don't understand who are you arguing with on that point. That was never my point. My point was that repetition in different forms was evident in the first trilogy and into the second.
And again, you say I'm "carving things up"... Wrong. I'm showing that in the two movies that made people absolutely fall in love with Star Wars it didn't repeat itself and that's one of the reasons it was so fresh. The ensuing movies then started rehashing the same elements and that's the reason those next two movies weren't neArly as beloved and one of them was even loathed. You can say the same thing was repeated 3 times, because ANH STARTED everything. the definition of REPEAT is to do something AGAIN. You get that, right? And the more Lucas repeated himself, the less people liked the movies.
Don't we agree on that? Didn't I say the same thing? The FX pushed the envelope. It sparked imaginations. To say otherwise wouldn't be true. It doesn't change all the shortcomings I stated before. I think all the great things about it allowed people to overlook all it's bad. If you don't agree that's cool but I am not the first to say so. If you don't think ROTJ had a huge impact on kids and women for that matter you're kidding yourself. I am pretty sure ROTJ probably had the most appeal to a wider demographic than the first two.
We actually seem to be agreeing one of the weak points of the entire series is some of the rehash. The concept of the movies "echoing" each other and "rhyming" were words from Lucas. Not me. That tells me it was intentional. Star Wars does that in spades (no matter how big or small). When 3 out of the first 4 movies destroyed weapon X to stop side B from a major victory.....you must get that it is repetitive regardless of subtext, subplot main plot or otherwise. You don't get to cherry pick where you draw the line on the movies. Lucas made 6 films not 2.
My original point was this movie was no more repetitive if you look at all the films that proceeded it. My followup was this is what Lucas intended. The point was never if you look at only the first two films of the six he made (which is where you keep steering it to). Nobody argued "when" people fell in love with the franchise.
Maybe Lucas's concept was flawed from jump. I don't know. Maybe it was execution. Maybe it was both.
I often wonder if Lucas kept in the script of ROTJ that the battle was on Kashyyyk with Wookies instead of on Endor with a bunch of teddy bears would Jedi be held in a higher esteem.
It would have been rated higher with die hard fans for sure. I think for years the planet most fans wanted to see was Kashyyyk. Although #3 out of 6 films is not exactly low esteem. In some polls I looked up tonight it was rated pretty close to the original film. I know over the years talking to people it seems ROTJ ranks better with kids and women verses the first one. I know my wife and kids and most of my friends wives love ROTJ as their favorite. It's hard to know for sure because I am sure most woman and kids are not going to participate in those polls I would imagine. It's people like us on this forum that would mostly participate totally disregarding a huge portion of the demographic.
I think I read that this time around almost 4 out of every 10 people who watched this movie were women. That wasn't because of the first two films. Women and kids liked the Teddy Bears regardless of what we think as die hard fans. So...how do you appeal to them? Evidently, creating a cute robot and making the lead a bad-a woman worked. The first thing my wife said...I love the lead and new Jedi is Rey. My daughter? I love BB8.
Personally, I know I still wonder to this day what ROTJ would have looked like with Kashyyk. I have heard some argue with the technology back then it would have looked like muppets on steroids. I think I still would have liked to see it myself. Although, my wife and daughter probably wouldn't give two sheets about Star Wars if one of the movies had not had Ewoks in it.
Star Wars is so much richer of an experience being able to share it with my wife and daughter and not just my son. I love that the entire family is now into Star Wars and can't wait to see the next one. I felt like this movie was able to appeal to them without pandering and taking the awesome out of the Star Wars I love.
