Starks?

[LittleDavis]

Will he thrive under Green? I hope so.

 

[Redheart]

Starks = FA Bust

 

[JeffGollin]

Starks = FA Bust
Based on what we've seen from during the past 2 years, he is at best an unproven entity for us as our starting corner.

I want 2 proven shutdown corners in place when we start next season. If Starks can outfight one of them for a starting spot or represent a quality #3, that would be cool also.

 

[CaptTurbo]

You mean Tommy Knight Starks? Maybe we can give the ravens Barret for Knight. Can you imagine.

Starks and Knight as the season starter CB's

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by JeffGollin

I want 2 proven shutdown corners in place when we start next season.[/COLOR]

Well you aren't going to get them.

"Shutdown" corner is a term much like "franchise QB". It's thrown around way too much, and is very poorly defined.

There are literally only 3-4 true shutdown corners out there. Aeneas once was a shutdown corner, as was Deion. But Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, etc aren't the same as those too.

My point is that we should look for 2 "pretty good" corners and an improved pass rush. We aren't going to get 2 shutdown corners...

 

[Redheart]

Sorry...

But I want Starks gone...

28 Duane Starks

CB
Height: 5-10
Weight: 170
(Too small & too slow)
Born: 05/23/1974
College: Miami (Fla.)
NFL Experience: 6

Career Stats Game Logs Situational Stats Other CBs Team Roster

DEFENSIVE STATS

Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
1998 Baltimore Ravens 16 56 52.0 4 0 5 3 0.6 2 0 10
1999 Baltimore Ravens 16 42 39.0 3 0 5 59 11.8 43 1 13
2000 Baltimore Ravens 15 49 45.0 4 0 6 125 20.8 64 0 17
2001 Baltimore Ravens 15 59 54.0 5 0 4 9 2.2 9 0 13
2002 Arizona Cardinals 10 55 47.0 8 0 2 3 1.5 3 0 6

PUNT RETURNS

Year Team G No FC Yards Avg Lg TD 20+
1998 Baltimore Ravens 16 0 0 0 --- 0 0 0
1999 Baltimore Ravens 16 0 0 0 --- 0 0 0
2000 Baltimore Ravens 15 9 1 135 15.0 47 0 2
2001 Baltimore Ravens 15 0 0 0 --- 0 0 0
2002 Arizona Cardinals 10 0 0 0 --- 0 0 0

FUMBLES

Year Team G Fum Lost Fum Forced Own Rec Opp Rec Yards Tot Rec TD
1998 Baltimore Ravens 16 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0
1999 Baltimore Ravens 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2000 Baltimore Ravens 15 1 0 0 1 1 0 2 0
2001 Baltimore Ravens 15 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0
2002 Arizona Cardinals 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Salary 3,600,000

AND now he has an ACL to recover from.

Bust. Bust. Bust.

 

[WizardOfAz]

I would have liked to see how Starks would have played this year with Dexter on the field with him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Redheart
But I want Starks gone...

28 Duane Starks

CB
Height: 5-10
Weight: 170
(Too small & too slow)
.

TOO SLOW???????

Duane runs around a 4.3-4.4......He is definitely fast enough, pending his return obviously (he could lose some of that speed, due to an ACL tear).

 

[kerouac9]

If you ever expected Duane to be a solid #1 corner (and I think the Cards were), you were destined to be disappointed. Starks is an above-average #2 corner (maybe the best in the league), and a slightly below-average #1, especially in a division like ours, with a plethora of very, very good wideouts.

Did we overpay to get him? Duh. Does he no longer have any utility to the Cardinals franchise in this cornerback-starved league? Um, not at all.

 

[Redheart]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Starks = FA Bust
Based on what we've seen from during the past 2 years, he is at best an unproven entity for us as our starting corner.

I want 2 proven shutdown corners in place when we start next season. If Starks can outfight one of them for a starting spot or represent a quality #3, that would be cool also.

At best, he is unproven? THAT is kind. He is a proven bust. Torched the one year (if you call 10 games a year) he played for us for $8 Million.

You really want to pay a #3 CB coming back from an ACL $3.6 million?

Too many talented FA CB's this year to even consider bringing Starks into camp again. Use his money to sign and bring in a couple of those.

 

[Redheart]

Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
TOO SLOW???????

Duane runs around a 4.3-4.4......He is definitely fast enough, pending his return obviously (he could lose some of that speed, due to an ACL tear).

That time is WAY in the rear view mirror, Krang. Count on that ACL to spell career for Starks. CB's are not just about speed, they are about cuts and transitions.

The only speed I ever saw from Starks as a Cardinal was one-step too slow as the opposing WR caught the ball. Always close to the play, always a little late, and often overpowered.

BUST!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Redheart
That time is WAY in the rear view mirror, Krang. Count on that ACL to spell career for Starks. CB's are not just about speed, they are about cuts and transitions.

The only speed I ever saw from Starks as a Cardinal was one-step too slow as the opposing WR caught the ball. Always close to the play, always a little late, and often overpowered.

BUST!

I disagree. I thought he was our best corner when healthy.

 

[Ryanwb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I disagree. I thought he was our best corner when healthy.

He befuddled Boston a few days after he gave his, "I'll give any CB $100,000" speech.

Give the guy another chance...its not his fault he got injured

 

[Redmark]

Originally posted by Redheart
At best, he is unproven? THAT is kind. He is a proven bust. Torched the one year (if you call 10 games a year) he played for us for $8 Million.

No Pass Rush = Toasted DBs

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I disagree. I thought he was our best corner when healthy.

No question about it in my mind.

 

[Pariah]

But, if we're going to end up cutting Starks anyway (big IF), I'd like to see us do it the day free agency opens. That way it's one more CB on the market for teams to bring in--maybe it'll increase the chances of someone like Woodson or Winfield coming here (if ever so slightly).

 

[Redheart]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I disagree. I thought he was our best corner when healthy.

Talk about being damned with faint praise...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Redheart
Talk about being damned with faint praise...

He wasn't great, mind you, but with another good corner across from him, and a better pass rush, he is a pretty good player.

He proved that with Baltimore, when he had 20 picks in a 4-5 year span.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by Redmark
No Pass Rush = Toasted DBs

Nice point....you put Champ Bailey with Terrence Newman with our DL and they look like a couple of Tito Pauls

 

[Redheart]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
He wasn't great, mind you, but with another good corner across from him, and a better pass rush, he is a pretty good player.

He proved that with Baltimore, when he had 20 picks in a 4-5 year span.

I just don't see it. Another good corner would only increase the number of times a defense challenged him and the ACL is NOT going to make him stronger next year.

If we had a good pass rush, then all the secondary benefits, can't argue that. I will argue there and MANY better FA CB's available for his money. I would argue there will be serveral better FA CB's available for even LESS $.

You REALLY want to spend $3.6 milliion on Starks, considering what is available next year in the FA CB markert???

This is not even a tough decision.

 

[ajcardfan]

There's plenty of room for CB's on our roster. We need 2, at least, this offseason. Actually, we could probably really bring in 3 new guys. Given the fact that we need so many, and we have so many other holes to fill, the smart move IMO, is giving Starks training camp to prove he can still play.

Maybe Green will change his luck.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Redheart
At best, he is unproven? THAT is kind. He is a proven bust. Torched the one year (if you call 10 games a year) he played for us for $8 Million.

You really want to pay a #3 CB coming back from an ACL $3.6 million?

Too many talented FA CB's this year to even consider bringing Starks into camp again. Use his money to sign and bring in a couple of those.

He played most of that year with a groin pull though. We have NOT seen Starks healthy, if he never will be he should be gone, but if he's back relatively healthy next year he should be here.

Torched is a bit harsh what I recall is a guy giving up a bunch of TD passes where he was just slightly out of position, he wasn't getting beat by 5-10 yards the way the other CB's on the roster do.

If the ACL causes him to lose a step he may have real problems but i think it's premature to just cut him unless we know for sure there's a injury issue in which case we would have to reach an injury settlement. IMHO Starks was our best CB 2 years ago even playing hurt, that's how weak we were.

 

[CardsFan88]

The question should be on a starks is "Is he a good player anymore?"

When he has played, he's sucked.

He's been injured alot.

And he'll be two years older and rusty next year.

He was great for Baltimore

He's sucked for us

IF he could return to form, then he'd be a great CB....

But thats a BIG IF!

That said he is also a small corner, which really didn't hurt him before, but with all our other small corners, I am dying for even a corner with average size 6'0 or so. Many of our corners are already 5'9 or so.

If we get a corner thru free agency or draft, hopefully its a tall one...that has talent.

 

[Redheart]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
Nice point....you put Champ Bailey with Terrence Newman with our DL and they look like a couple of Tito Pauls

...or maybe they look like Aneas Williams and go to the pro-bowl.

The reality is you need quality CB's when the pass rush does not get to the QB, and that happens much more often than the reverse even for a team with a great pass rush.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by Redheart
...or maybe they look like Aneas Williams and go to the pro-bowl.

The reality is you need quality CB's when the pass rush does not get to the QB, and that happens much more often than the reverse even for a team with a great pass rush.

Starks was a Pro Bowl CB at Baltimore, granted he had an outstanding supporting cast....but the talent in there.