Steelers West? I am waiting!!!!!!!!!!

[Mitch]

I think we should take a flyer on Wade Phillips after he gets fired in Dallas. He's another example of a guy who is a great coordinator, but a poor head coach (ala Norv, Romeo, Charlie). He's had some pretty good D's over the years.

Great suggestion, THT!

+1

 

[DoTheDew]

Teams just don't jettison their high draft picks and marquee FA signings within a year the way the Whis Cards have. Look around the league and find well-run teams who jettison second- and third-round picks before they can play a meaningful down. Find teams that release March free agent signings the following April. It doesn't happen except here.

While that is true, the draft picks he cut have yet to really turn into anything of value anywhere else. I'd prefer a coach who admits a draft blunder and lets someone with the spot on the team instead of holding on to dead weight. As for the FA signings thing, it is rare, I'll admit, though the Redskins were sincerely thinking about dumping Haynesworth a year after signing him. I know they didn't but maybe they *should* have. Only example I have off the top of my head though, is Bengals cutting WR Coles a year after signing him.

The question you have to ask is, are the players Whiz is dumping useful or is he getting rid of dead weight? This off-season was a bit of an extreme example but a lot of it was out of our hands. We tried to keep Dansby. I'm personally glad we swapped Rolle for Rhodes. Losing Boldin hurts but that relationship had clearly soured and it was either a 3 and a 4 this year or lose him for nothing next year. McFadden would look nice as the #3 right now but that price tag for a #3 would scare most teams and rightly so.

It's really hard to find serious fault in our personnel decisions this off-season other than how we handled the QB situation. But that has been discussed to death already. What else could we have handled better though? Bring back Gandy maybe???

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, he won a Super Bowl with two of the four...

when? Back in 2006? That was 4 years ago when Porter was still an absolute beast and Haggans wasn't approaching LBer old age.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm pretty sure you could go through most teams and find all their successes and failures and you'll see similar results. The hit rate on draft picks and FAs just plain isn't that high. FAs I think actually are worse than draft picks. If the players were at the top of their game, most of the time they are getting extended. You sign a vet FA, you're getting someone that the other team didn't want and that no one else in the league wanted more than you. That generally tells you that you're overvaluing the guy from the get go.

That really depends on whether you are getting a guy who is at the end of his first contract and still in the prime of his career, which you get when they simply are not going to extend with their current team, or guys that a lot of the better teams let go who are at the end of their second contract and so are older and starting to lose a step or two.

Sure we've had several one year wonders as free agents but we've also had some real success stories: Kurt Warner, Bertand Berry, Chike Okeafor, Clark Haggens and Edgerrin James for instance.

I know you didn't mention overpaying but you hear that a lot with FA's and I don't buy into that at all. I'd bet the Dolphins don't think for a minute they overpaid for Dansby. You only overpay for a player when that contract weakens your team in another area because you don't have the cap space or cash to get that extra TE you need for instance or have to cut a solid player.

Then of course you have people who think 3 journeymen are worth 1 star player and so you should never pay one guy huge money. I know I saw several posts like that during the Fitz contract debate.

 

[DoTheDew]

That really depends on whether you are getting a guy who is at the end of his first contract and still in the prime of his career, which you get when they simply are not going to extend with their current team, or guys that a lot of the better teams let go who are at the end of their second contract and so are older and starting to lose a step or two.

Sure we've had several one year wonders as free agents but we've also had some real success stories: Kurt Warner, Bertand Berry, Chike Okeafor, Clark Haggens and Edgerrin James for instance.

That last one is really debatable. Almost any other team and he'd be considered a colossal failure given his YPC. Just shows how low the RB bar was set in AZ.

 

[Duckjake]

That last one is really debatable. Almost any other team and he'd be considered a colossal failure given his YPC. Just shows how low the RB bar was set in AZ.

Good point but Edge did rush for over 1000 yards twice and we got 3 years out of him including two solid performances at home in the playoffs in 2008.

As for the lowered bar for RBs in Arizona it is hard to believe that it had been 7 years since the Cards had a 1000 yard rusher when Edge went over that mark in 2006. He had twice as many yards as the leading rusher the year before!

Unreal how pitiful the running game had been in the AZ.

 

[DoTheDew]

Good point but Edge did rush for over 1000 yards twice and we got 3 years out of him including two solid performances at home in the playoffs in 2008.

As for the lowered bar for RBs in Arizona it is hard to believe that it had been 7 years since the Cards had a 1000 yard rusher when Edge went over that mark in 2006. He had twice as many yards as the leading rusher the year before!

Unreal had pitiful the running game had been in the AZ.

I look at it this way. Edge's mediocrity led to us drafting THT and Beanie. So in that sense he was a success!

 

[BigRedMO]

I look at it this way. Edge's mediocrity led to us drafting THT and Beanie. So in that sense he was a success!

It is sad that Hightower and Wells are considered a success. You have to go back to Ottis Anderson to find a top RB with the Cards. Stump Mitchell was good but he did not have the staying power to amass the carries or yards year in and year out like Anderson did. Anderson was a horse. Maybe someday there will be top back in AZ.

Many here dont think he is HOF worthy so why is it so hard to find another league leader type RB?

 

[kerouac9]

It is sad that Hightower and Wells are considered a success. You have to go back to Ottis Anderson to find a top RB with the Cards. Stump Mitchell was good but he did not have the staying power to amass the carries or yards year in and year out like Anderson did. Anderson was a horse. Maybe someday there will be top back in AZ.

Many here dont think he is HOF worthy so why is it so hard to find another league leader type RB?

Thomas Jones was a top back for the Cards if only anyone on the team knew how to use him.

And Garrison Hearst before him.

 

[BigRedMO]

Thomas Jones was a top back for the Cards if only anyone on the team knew how to use him.

And Garrison Hearst before him.

They were not for the Cardinals.

 

[DoTheDew]

It is sad that Hightower and Wells are considered a success. You have to go back to Ottis Anderson to find a top RB with the Cards. Stump Mitchell was good but he did not have the staying power to amass the carries or yards year in and year out like Anderson did. Anderson was a horse. Maybe someday there will be top back in AZ.

Many here dont think he is HOF worthy so why is it so hard to find another league leader type RB?

That's true. I think because we're using a duel back set it makes both THT and Wells look like poorer backs than they are. I'll go by their YPC last year and so far this year as a basis for my judgement rather than total yards. Total yards is a poor measure since we are such a pass oriented team, or at least have been since those two have been here.

Edit: If THT and Beanie both matched their current YPG averages for the rest of the season without missing any games, they'd both be a hair over 1000 yards. I know that is an unrealistic expectation, but I think it is reasonable to project them combining for 1500+. If they both end the year over 4 YPC, I'll consider them successes.

 

[Mulli]

They were not for the Cardinals.

Because they started scrubs instead of giving their FIRST ROUND PICKS a chance to succeed.

 

[kerouac9]

While that is true, the draft picks he cut have yet to really turn into anything of value anywhere else. I'd prefer a coach who admits a draft blunder and lets someone with the spot on the team instead of holding on to dead weight. As for the FA signings thing, it is rare, I'll admit, though the Redskins were sincerely thinking about dumping Haynesworth a year after signing him. I know they didn't but maybe they *should* have. Only example I have off the top of my head though, is Bengals cutting WR Coles a year after signing him.

The question you have to ask is, are the players Whiz is dumping useful or is he getting rid of dead weight? This off-season was a bit of an extreme example but a lot of it was out of our hands. We tried to keep Dansby. I'm personally glad we swapped Rolle for Rhodes. Losing Boldin hurts but that relationship had clearly soured and it was either a 3 and a 4 this year or lose him for nothing next year. McFadden would look nice as the #3 right now but that price tag for a #3 would scare most teams and rightly so.

It's really hard to find serious fault in our personnel decisions this off-season other than how we handled the QB situation. But that has been discussed to death already. What else could we have handled better though? Bring back Gandy maybe???

That's a lot of excuses. I understand that this is this year, but the Cards are going to be rebuilding for a while because they haven't been able to (1) build cheap depth and starters from the draft or (2) fill important roster holes with quality free agents on the defensive side of the ball since Whis has been here.

Look at the Jags: they have some quality skill position players, but because they've whiffed on so many draft picks in the past five years, they're going to be working to rebuild their roster maybe from scratch when Jack Del Rio gets fired after this season.

Gerald Hayes
Joey Porter
Clark Haggans
Bryan Robinson

These are four of our front seven who are the downside of their careers. We've already let Antrel Rolle and Karlos Dansby leave without compensation (although we'll maybe get quality compensatory picks for them). We're going to have to go into free agency or the draft to replace them, because our in-house replacements--Cody Brown and Rashard Johnson most obviously, and also Buster Davis--were busted picks. Two of those guys never saw an NFL down. How is that not on the front office and the head coach?

I don't mind if the coach gets rid of dead weight, but it's dead weight that he brought to the team. How can you trust him to replace those players?

Add in busted guys like Bryant McFadden (although he looks more than serviceable in Pittsburgh again, doesn't he?) and Travis LaBoy, and you've thrown good money away on guys who should be undervalued two or three years after their original contract.

 

[Big D]

Steelers west?? Pfft, I'd settle for the smart, tough, DISCIPLINED team Whis preached he would deliver the day he was introduced here. I'm still waiting for THAT to happen...

3+ years in and a roster now full of "Whis guys" there are no excuses.

 

[Rats]

Steelers west?? Pfft, I'd settle for the smart, tough, DISCIPLINED team Whis preached he would deliver the day he was introduced here. I'm still waiting for THAT to happen...

3+ years in and a roster now full of "Whis guys" there are no excuses.

Yep, needs to start this weekend. Need the D to get out of the basement against the run and also get to the passer.

 

[BigRedMO]

That's true. I think because we're using a duel back set it makes both THT and Wells look like poorer backs than they are. I'll go by their YPC last year and so far this year as a basis for my judgement rather than total yards. Total yards is a poor measure since we are such a pass oriented team, or at least have been since those two have been here.

Edit: If THT and Beanie both matched their current YPG averages for the rest of the season without missing any games, they'd both be a hair over 1000 yards. I know that is an unrealistic expectation, but I think it is reasonable to project them combining for 1500+. If they both end the year over 4 YPC, I'll consider them successes.

This is the kind of production I want to see:
'79 2,582 yds 4.6 3rd
'80 2,183 yds 4.2 9th
'81 2,213 yds 4.3 9th
'82 1,209 yds 3.9 7th (Strike year)
'83 2,277 yds 4.3 7th
'84 2,088 yds 4.3 9th
'85 1,974 yds 4.7 15th

Those were the years Anderson was a Cardinal. I would like to see 2,000 yards rushing as a team.

 

[Duckjake]

1,823 yards 4.4 ypc 15th/10th. Finished 5-11 in 2002. Also allowed over 2000 yards rushing that season and had injuries to key WRs.

The Cards are on pace to do all that again. Unfortunately.

 

[DoTheDew]

These are four of our front seven who are the downside of their careers. We've already let Antrel Rolle and Karlos Dansby leave without compensation (although we'll maybe get quality compensatory picks for them). We're going to have to go into free agency or the draft to replace them, because our in-house replacements--Cody Brown and Rashard Johnson most obviously, and also Buster Davis--were busted picks. Two of those guys never saw an NFL down. How is that not on the front office and the head coach?

I don't mind if the coach gets rid of dead weight, but it's dead weight that he brought to the team. How can you trust him to replace those players?

Add in busted guys like Bryant McFadden (although he looks more than serviceable in Pittsburgh again, doesn't he?) and Travis LaBoy, and you've thrown good money away on guys who should be undervalued two or three years after their original contract.

1. We cut Rolle so no comp pick for him. I still think this was cheap ownership and not Whiz's fault.
2. Every team drafts guys who end up doing hardly anything or sucking. Even high. You could go through every team and list a series of 1st through 3rd round picks that didn't meet expectations. Even the most respected drafters like the Ravens. I wonder how they feel about Kindle and Terrence "Moobs" Cody right now? Is it on the coach? Sure. Our previous coach drafted JJ Arrington in the 2nd. Daryl Blackstock and Leonard Pope in the 3rd. Go back to the McGinnis years it gets even worse. Missing on draft picks sucks. But it happens all too often in the NFL. Better to have a coach that moves on than one who tries in vein to make a career where there isn't one.
3. I agree those FA signings sucked. At least we got more out of them than Oliver Ross and that center we signed under Green who's name escapes me. I don't know enough about other teams to know how they've done in this department though.

But going back to the draft, I've looked through other teams and most of them don't even have a long term hit rate of 50%. So in that light let's look at Whiz's drafts.
2007:
Levi Brown, Alan Branch, Buster Davis, Steve Breaston, Ben Patrick.
We'll give this draft a 2/5. Got a starting WR in Breaston and a solid TE in Patrick and 3 underperformers/busts.
2008:
DRC, Campbell, Doucet, Iwebema, THT, Chris Harrington, Brandon Keith.
This draft is AT least a 3/7 with DRC, Campbell and THT, but I'd count Iwebema as a solid rotational player. Wish I could count Keith but he's been such a disappointment so far.
So now Whiz is 6/12
2009: Still a bit premature to judge this but I'll try.
Beanie, Cody Brown, Rashad Johnson, Toler, Herman Johnson, Will Davis, LS, Trevor Canfield.
I count Beanie, Toler and LSH as hits already. Brown and Canfield are obvious misses. The jury is still out on the others but I'm more inclined to make them misses.

So Whiz is 9/20 going into this years draft class in my mind. Not great but not terrible either. I challenge you to go through other teams over the past 5 years and find many that have a higher hit rate?

 

[Duckjake]

Not great but not terrible either. I challenge you to go through other teams over the past 5 years and find many that have a higher hit rate?

The problem is I don't want the Cards to be average or simply better than the old Cardinals.

I want them to be a top tier NFL team. With multiple playoff appearances like the last two seasons.

I'm sure the Cards brass does too but I'm not sure if the personnel moves they are making are an indication they can accomplish that. Regardless of how they compare to the NFL average.

 

[kerouac9]

2. Every team drafts guys who end up doing hardly anything or sucking. Even high. You could go through every team and list a series of 1st through 3rd round picks that didn't meet expectations. Even the most respected drafters like the Ravens. I wonder how they feel about Kindle and Terrence "Moobs" Cody right now? Is it on the coach? Sure. Our previous coach drafted JJ Arrington in the 2nd. Daryl Blackstock and Leonard Pope in the 3rd. Go back to the McGinnis years it gets even worse. Missing on draft picks sucks. But it happens all too often in the NFL. Better to have a coach that moves on than one who tries in vein to make a career where there isn't one.

Every team? Go find me five good teams who have had 2nd and 3rd round picks that never played a down for the team before being released. Find them. Show me.

The Ravens knew that they weren't going to get much out of Kindle this season when they drafted him. Terrance Cody is injured. Do you expect either of those players to not make Baltimore's roster next season? I sure don't. So those picks are already better than Cody Brown was.

What do I care whether or not Whis drafts better than Green? I want this team to draft as well as the Colts do. Or the Pats. The fact remains that five years into Whis's tenure this team is still thin to the point that we have two undrafted free agent rookies starting or getting major playing time, combined with a handful of very old veterans. That's on the coaching staff and front office.

J.J. Arrington was good his last season here. We wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl without him. Leonard Pope is starting for the Chiefs. Daryl Blackstock had 20 tackles and started 4 games for the Bengals last season. It's not like these guys haven't had careers after the left the Cards; it's that the Cards--this coaching staff--failed to develop their talents.

3. I agree those FA signings sucked. At least we got more out of them than Oliver Ross and that center we signed under Green who's name escapes me. I don't know enough about other teams to know how they've done in this department though.

Well then maybe you should go an excuse the whiffs that the Cards have made in free agency and the ten million dollars that they've wasted.

But going back to the draft, I've looked through other teams and most of them don't even have a long term hit rate of 50%. So in that light let's look at Whiz's drafts.
2007:
Levi Brown, Alan Branch, Buster Davis, Steve Breaston, Ben Patrick.
We'll give this draft a 2/5. Got a starting WR in Breaston and a solid TE in Patrick and 3 underperformers/busts.
2008:
DRC, Campbell, Doucet, Iwebema, THT, Chris Harrington, Brandon Keith.
This draft is AT least a 3/7 with DRC, Campbell and THT, but I'd count Iwebema as a solid rotational player. Wish I could count Keith but he's been such a disappointment so far.
So now Whiz is 6/12
2009: Still a bit premature to judge this but I'll try.
Beanie, Cody Brown, Rashad Johnson, Toler, Herman Johnson, Will Davis, LS, Trevor Canfield.
I count Beanie, Toler and LSH as hits already. Brown and Canfield are obvious misses. The jury is still out on the others but I'm more inclined to make them misses.

So Whiz is 9/20 going into this years draft class in my mind. Not great but not terrible either. I challenge you to go through other teams over the past 5 years and find many that have a higher hit rate?

It's difficult to compare this way using good front offices, because good front offices don't turn over players at the rate that the Cards have once Whis took over--especially this last offseason.

Look at the Colts. In the last five years they've drafted and developed Joseph Addai (1st), Freddie Keiaho (3rd), Antoine Bethea (6th), Clint Session (4th), Mike Pollack (2nd), Phillip Wheeler (3rd), Pierre Garcon (6th), and Austin Collie (4th). Because their front office is so efficient, they NEVER sign free agents, so they never bust on them.

Since 2006 the Ravens have developed Haloti Ngata (1st), Ben Gruggs (1st), Marshall Yanda (3rd), LaRon McClain (4th), Antwan Barnes (4th), Joe Flacco (1st), Ray Rice (2nd), Tom Zbikowski (3rd), and Michael Oher (1st).

This isn't just about drafting well. The Cards have done a good job of drafting offensive players the past five years. But defensively? They've been stinktacular. And now we're depending on the defense to win games for us while the offense reloads and changes focus. It's difficult to do that when of the 10 defensive players the coaching staff has brought in, three are off the roster (without ever showing what they could do in games that count), three are rotational players (Davis, Branch, and Iwebema), and one is a guy who made his first play in his 20th NFL game (Rashard Johnson).

How can we trust this front office and coaching staff to develop quality defensive starters when they've been so bad at picking and developing them so far? An underrated aspect of the Colts front office is that they've been so good at identifying and developing linebackers that they essentially replace 2/3rd of the linebacking corps every offseason when they leave in free agency.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Teams just don't jettison their high draft picks and marquee FA signings within a year the way the Whis Cards have. Look around the league and find well-run teams who jettison second- and third-round picks before they can play a meaningful down. Find teams that release March free agent signings the following April. It doesn't happen except here.

I absolutely LOVE that this is seen as a bad thing and have read it so many times.

You know what K9? Every team in the league doesn't hit on more players then they do when they draft. Thats just a fact. You are doing extremely well if you get 2 starters 2 backups, and a ST's player every draft. In fact you are the Eagles or the Pats if your doing that.

So whats the difference in the Cardinals? They realize the mistakes quickly and jettison the player. They know what they want and get rid of them quickly so they don't eat up roster spots for more deserving players. Even if they are undrafted, which they have been many times over. It also speaks to the depth we have on this team now, opposed to other teams and beforew Wiz got here. We don't have space for guys not buying into the system.

So you can go down every teams roster and find dead wood all over the place and most teams are too stubborn to admit that mistake and hold back players who could be helping them for these 2nd and 3rd round draft picks who should be producing, but are not and likely never going too.

I LOVE the menatality of the team. Unlike you I realize they aren't going to hit on every draft pick, and am glad when they realize the drafted the wrong guy (which again every team does many times over) they get rid of him. I am also glad they scout late round picks and undrafted players as well as they do so it makes it easier to get rid of the guys who aren't buying into the program.

I guess its all perspective.

 

[Duckjake]

I absolutely LOVE that this is seen as a bad thing and have read it so many times.

You know what K9? Every team in the league doesn't hit on more players then they do when they draft. Thats just a fact. You are doing extremely well if you get 2 starters 2 backups, and a ST's player every draft. In fact you are the Eagles or the Pats if your doing that.

So whats the difference in the Cardinals? They realize the mistakes quickly and jettison the player. They know what they want and get rid of them quickly so they don't eat up roster spots for more deserving players. Even if they are undrafted, which they have been many times over. It also speaks to the depth we have on this team now, opposed to other teams and beforew Wiz got here. We don't have space for guys not buying into the system.

So you can go down every teams roster and find dead wood all over the place and most teams are too stubborn to admit that mistake and hold back players who could be helping them for these 2nd and 3rd round draft picks who should be producing, but are not and likely never going too.

I LOVE the menatality of the team. Unlike you I realize they aren't going to hit on every draft pick, and am glad when they realize the drafted the wrong guy (which again every team does many times over) they get rid of him. I am also glad they scout late round picks and undrafted players as well as they do so it makes it easier to get rid of the guys who aren't buying into the program.

I guess its all perspective.

It's not that simple. Suppose you have all 4 OLBs who aren't buying into the program? Are you going to cut them and bring guys in off the street? Its great that an occasional UDFA makes the team but you can't build an entire team with them.

The reason the Cards sucked for so long is that they had too many of those guys. The reason they went to the SB is because they didn't have very many of those guys.

You shouldn't miss on any draft picks in the first three rounds to the point where they never play a down or are so lazy or out of shape that you have to make them inactive 3 weeks into the season. That gets you the Cards 2002 draft which took 5 years to overcome.

 

[kerouac9]

I absolutely LOVE that this is seen as a bad thing and have read it so many times.

You know what K9? Every team in the league doesn't hit on more players then they do when they draft. Thats just a fact. You are doing extremely well if you get 2 starters 2 backups, and a ST's player every draft. In fact you are the Eagles or the Pats if your doing that.

So whats the difference in the Cardinals? They realize the mistakes quickly and jettison the player. They know what they want and get rid of them quickly so they don't eat up roster spots for more deserving players. Even if they are undrafted, which they have been many times over. It also speaks to the depth we have on this team now, opposed to other teams and beforew Wiz got here. We don't have space for guys not buying into the system.

So you can go down every teams roster and find dead wood all over the place and most teams are too stubborn to admit that mistake and hold back players who could be helping them for these 2nd and 3rd round draft picks who should be producing, but are not and likely never going too.

I LOVE the menatality of the team. Unlike you I realize they aren't going to hit on every draft pick, and am glad when they realize the drafted the wrong guy (which again every team does many times over) they get rid of him. I am also glad they scout late round picks and undrafted players as well as they do so it makes it easier to get rid of the guys who aren't buying into the program.

I guess its all perspective.

I guess. But how do you trust the same people who whiffed on second and third round draft picks to bring in quality undrafted free agents or unrestricted veteran free agents? It hasn't happened so far, has it?

It's not about hitting on more players than you miss on. It's about getting something from your early-round picks. If the Cards had gotten anything from Cody Brown, Rashard Johnson, and Buster Davis, they'd be one of the best-drafting teams in the NFL. But you can't make a living in the NFL when you bust on your second- and third-round picks and hope to build your team out of fourth- through seventh-round guys. How's Brandon Keith looking? We invested an even higher choice on Herman Johnson; how's that working out?

Where are you seeing the quality replacements for Cody Brown on the roster? I see two old veterans playing 85% of defensive downs and wearing out at the end of games? Where do you see the quality depth at middle linebacker where Buster Davis would be playing spot duty right now? Because I see Adrian Wilson being dropped down into the box because Daryl Washington is running out of plays or Paris Lenon is getting creamed by offensive linemen.

If there were quality players being brought into the program to replace the Cody Browns and Buster Davis's, I'd be right there with you. But that's not the case right now. There's nothing coming in behind them, and the defensive backs that we kept instead of them aren't having any impact at all.

I want the team to stop drafting the wrong guy. Well-run teams do not draft the wrong guy in the second and third round. You're not listening: THE PROBLEM ISN'T THIS YEAR. THE PROBLEM WILL BE IN TWO OR THREE YEARS, when we're still rebuilding because we're not developing defensive players to take over when Joey Porter and Clark Haggans are (more) ineffective and old.

Where did anyone say that Cody Brown "wasn't buying into the program"? Is that somehow better than wasting a second-round pick on a guy who stinks?

Look at the Jags; look at the Panthers. Heck, look at the Patriots: ineffective drafting the last three or four years have left them with a very thin roster not only in the linebacking corps but also in the secondary. They trust their expensive, veteran (aging) offense to win games for them and hope that they can get a couple of stops every game. They were one and done in the playoffs last year. The year before they missed the playoffs altogether.

If this team isn't going to retain their best free agents, then they have to draft and develop the players behind them. The problem is that the Cards have decided to do the former, and haven't been able to accomplish the latter.

It's not that simple. Suppose you have all 4 OLBs who aren't buying into the program? Are you going to cut them and bring guys in off the street? Its great that an occasional UDFA makes the team but you can't build an entire team with them.

The reason the Cards sucked for so long is that they had too many of those guys. The reason they went to the SB is because they didn't have very many of those guys.

You shouldn't miss on any draft picks in the first three rounds to the point where they never play a down or are so lazy or out of shape that you have to make them inactive 3 weeks into the season. That gets you the Cards 2002 draft which took 5 years to overcome.

You can miss on one "first day" (rounds 1-3) draft pick every three years and remain relevant. If you miss on more than that, you're putting a lot of pressure on your late-round pick(s) and your player personnel office. It shouldn't escape anyone's notice that the Cards elected to hire a new director of player personnel after the Travis LaBoy debacle.

 

[JeffGollin]

Whiz has this dream of making the Cards Steeler West...

No K9, Wiz doesn't necessarily have that dream. Members of the media intelligencia claim he has that dream. (Claiming and being are two different animals).

In fact a strong case can be made that, since he's been here, Wiz's MO has been to "live off the land" in an assortment of ways:

- Tailor offensive and defensive schemes to the personnel we have.

- Switch from Warner to Leinart until Leinart doesn't work out - & then switch back to KW, the no-huddle and 4-WR sets.

- Be pass happy during the regular season, but then lean heavily on Edgerrin James in the playoffs.

- Stick with a 4 - 3 and then go with a hybrid until you have the right guys to execute the 3 -4 (& I'd be willing to bet that, if the 3-4 wasn't working out, you'd find us going to a different base scheme).

- Take what the opposing offense or defense gives you.

In fact, Wiz at his best is (IMHO) when he's most unpredictable.

Don't fall for the malarky that, with Warner gone, Wiz will resort to Pittsburgh-style smashmouth. If he feels he can put up points with Anderson gunslinging vertically to 3 or 4 wideouts, he'll do it. If he doesn't, he won't. As they like to say in the military: "It depends on the terrain.

 

[kerouac9]

No K9, Wiz doesn't necessarily have that dream. Members of the media intelligencia claim he has that dream. (Claiming and being are two different animals).

In fact a strong case can be made that, since he's been here, Wiz's MO has been to "live off the land" in an assortment of ways:

- Tailor offensive and defensive schemes to the personnel we have.

- Switch from Warner to Leinart until Leinart doesn't work out - & then switch back to KW, the no-huddle and 4-WR sets.

- Be pass happy during the regular season, but then lean heavily on Edgerrin James in the playoffs.

- Stick with a 4 - 3 and then go with a hybrid until you have the right guys to execute the 3 -4 (& I'd be willing to bet that, if the 3-4 wasn't working out, you'd find us going to a different base scheme).

- Take what the opposing offense or defense gives you.

In fact, Wiz at his best is (IMHO) when he's most unpredictable.

Don't fall for the malarky that, with Warner gone, Wiz will resort to Pittsburgh-style smashmouth. If he feels he can put up points with Anderson gunslinging vertically to 3 or 4 wideouts, he'll do it. If he doesn't, he won't. As they like to say in the military: "It depends on the terrain.

That's not my post, Jeff. Keep my name out your mouth.