Sterns at Suns 8:30 TNT

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK, the Suns beat this same Spurs team in San Antonio earlier in the year, but NOW they're in the Suns' heads? Does anyone remember game 2 in last year's playoffs, when the Suns kicked the living **** out of them?

Come on guys, I know it sucks, and I know this team may not win a title, but this game doesn't tell us anything more then the Suns need to shoot better then 37 percent to beat the Spurs.

sorry green machine, i really don't mean to pick on you. i just have a problem with the whole, "all is well. remain calm. nothing is wrong," attitude when clearly our issues are potentially very large issues. we won't be playing the eastern conference in the western conference playoffs . . . and right now, that's a problem for us.

 

[green machine]

you're not giving the spurs any credit for us shooting that poorly? wow. i guess the spurs d is all luck. they play all the teams when they can't shoot well.

The Spurs do a great job of making sure the Suns don't get a ton of easy layups and dunks. They force the Suns' shooters to make shots. Tonight, that strategy worked great, but only because the Suns missed a ton of open looks. Sure, the Spurs strategy was to make sure the Suns were a jump shooting team, but I don't think the Suns will shoot that poorly most nights.

EDIT: I can see you're still catching up to all the posts, which makes this a bit harder, but totally understandable!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Furthermore, Duncan traveled nearly every time in that situation. He shuffles his feet so freakin' badly its ridiculous. He was doing it ten feet from my face and was screaming about it, but it wasn't called once.

Great effort all around, if they play like that in the playoffs, they'll win more games than they lose.

i will concur with this point. on that hard doubleteam with marion they showed the replay, and i kid you not, duncan took 8 steps. albeit tiny ones. it was 8 STEPS!!! not pivots. i was dumbfounded.

 

[HooverDam]

Wow, looking back over this thread is really disheartening. The lack of basketball knowledge is disappointing. The Suns missed open shot and free throws tonight, how many nights do they have when they're all that cold? Sure, some of it was SA's good D, but the Suns missed A LOT of open looks and free throws. Most nights those go in, and the Suns win.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I totally agree that the Suns need a C to help Amare out, and maybe this game will help prove that point to the front office.

But again, if the Spurs are better then the Suns it isn't by much. A playoff series between the two could go either way because both teams are good and both know they can win on the other's home court.

hmm, i agree up to the point that i still think they're in our heads. as barkley stated after the game, the spurs are not frightened of us. they go about their workmanlike effort against us as they would anyone else. we, on the other hand, get jacked to play the spurs and if things go a little sour, i think we panic. and that's enough of an edge for them to play it close, but still own us.

 

[CardShark]

Well I want to say I am terribly disappointed by the Suns, I also know it's just one game and there will be more against the Sterns. The refs were quite fair IMO, they actually called more to our favor (that last call on Duncan when he fouled Amare was not a foul).

Nash had some uncharacteristic turnovers there at the end, but the Sterns did a good job swarming him. Yet when he was covered, other Suns on the court needed to step up and stop giving it to Nash to bail them out (like they did on the last shot). They must have known Nash was going to take the shot, why give it to him?? Bell, LB, and Diaw were non-existent. Marion was great in the first half, then just disappeared in the 2nd like always. But I'd have to say Stat was the biggest contribution to lost by not hitting those FT's. He hits them like there a piece of cake until the last 5 mins of the game and then chokes.

It was a foul. Duncan puts his arms up and that draws everyone's attention away from what he is doing with his hip. He throws it into his opponent while he is going into the air. There was the one shot that Amare dunked that Duncan almost knocked Amare down with that move. No foul was called. Then there was the one where Duncan and PappaBitch kept arguing that Duncan had his arms in the air. Well before he put them in the air he used two hands to push Amare in the back. Duncan gets away with alot of crap. He doesn't need someone to stand up for him when he gets caught.

 

[green machine]

Wow, looking back over this thread is really disheartening. The lack of basketball knowledge is disappointing. The Suns missed open shot and free throws tonight, how many nights do they have when they're all that cold? Sure, some of it was SA's good D, but the Suns missed A LOT of open looks and free throws. Most nights those go in, and the Suns win.

Hoover, if you weren't an ASU fan I'd say you're alright!

 

[cly2tw]

you might think my posts are "freaking," but that would mean you just haven't paid attention. when this team folded tonight i was talking with cheese who was livid. i was pretty calm (which is unusual for me watching the suns lose). know why? b/c i expected the meltdown. we haven't gotten over on this spurs team yet. and until we do, i'll continue to assume we'll go soft and meltdown. one game in the playoffs last year does not a mental makeover make. right now, that game is an aberration. nothing more. so no, i'm not freaking out. just stating my observations. suns are still soft mentally in the face of the spurs. dantoni continues to get outcoached by pop. suns lose.

Ouchie, me too, being calm watching them lose it.

Even when we went into OT, it's no guarantee we'd turn it around. We were up by 4 late but Nash-Amare was good for more turnovers and clock-rushing shots than sure scoring opportunities. I listed more reasons earlier:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1610800&postcount=165

We fighted with energy and all, but our means are just too limited, once the game slows down. That's why I didn't get upset about this loss at all.

 

[green machine]

hmm, i agree up to the point that i still think they're in our heads. as barkley stated after the game, the spurs are not frightened of us. they go about their workmanlike effort against us as they would anyone else. we, on the other hand, get jacked to play the spurs and if things go a little sour, i think we panic. and that's enough of an edge for them to play it close, but still own us.

Maybe, but I don't think the Suns are afraid to play the Spurs either.

 

[HooverDam]

It was a foul. Duncan puts his arms up and that draws everyone's attention away from what he is doing with his hip. He throws it into his opponent while he is going into the air. There was the one shot that Amare dunked that Duncan almost knocked Amare down with that move. No foul was called. Then there was the one where Duncan and PappaBitch kept arguing that Duncan had his arms in the air. Well before he put them in the air he used two hands to push Amare in the back. Duncan gets away with alot of crap. He doesn't need someone to stand up for him when he gets caught.

Quoting this for truth. Both of those plays were on the baseline I was sitting on and Duncan quite clearly does like a sly hip check move to knock his man out of position.

Also, I'd like to say the worst part of this game was, no 99 points, no win, that meant no Jack in the Box tacos and no McDonalds frys. Normally after I go to a Suns game I can eat like a (greasy) champion for a week (I steal other peoples coupons/tickets who don't want them). Sadly, I shall now go hungry.

We fighted with energy and all, but our means are just too limited, once the game slows down. That's why I didn't get upset about this loss at all.

Grant Hill doesn't seem to be 100% just quite yet, but if he is in the playoffs, he's going to be huge in these situations. If teams are slowing down the P&R, the Nash search and kick out, and LBs iso speed plays, Hill can make his own shot off the dribble. Most nights, at full strength, playing with that kind of energy, the Suns have too many weapons and will come out on top.

I don't really agree that the Suns have some mental block against the Spurs. The Spurs have Tim Duncan, probably the best play of his generation. Did the Suns, Blazers, Jazz, et cetera have a mental block against the Bulls? No, the Bulls had Jordan.

More than any other sport, in NBA basketball, the team with the most talent generally wins.

EDIT: Side note to basketball analysis. Jesus Christ the Suns dancers are hot. I used to get excited to see such attractive women, now I find it depressing. Its like someone taunting you with a winning lotto ticket or having half the map to the Lost Dutchmans Mine. They're right there, yet I dress like a middle school janitor, so they're so far away.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wow, looking back over this thread is really disheartening. The lack of basketball knowledge is disappointing. The Suns missed open shot and free throws tonight, how many nights do they have when they're all that cold? Sure, some of it was SA's good D, but the Suns missed A LOT of open looks and free throws. Most nights those go in, and the Suns win.

most nights, yes. not most nights against the spurs. and it's b/c it's a mental game against the spurs. part of basketball knowledge is recognizing the mental aspects of the game. you have to have confidence, and i think the suns have false confidence. it's bravado. it's not real. not until they prove it to themselves (who cares if they prove it to us) definitively. which they have not. open shots usually fall for a good team like the suns. but those shots become a lot more difficult when you're mentally fatigued by a team that's owned you. recognize that part of basketball and you're knowledge will grow. ignore it and you're missing a portion of the game.

 

[CardShark]

No way it could have been a statement game with Parker out. In fact, no matter what happened the Suns were screwed.

Didn't the Suns make a statement earlier in the year when they beat the Parker-less Spurs in San Antonio?

Especially with Parker out. The Sterns are saying "We beat you without him and we'll be even better with him." The Suns have to start dominating teams that they should beat. It causes their opponents to have doubts the next time they play them. Now the reverse has happened. The Suns must be questioning themselves at this point.

 

[AnonymouslyKnown]

I can't draw any conlcusions from this game. It seemed weird and like both teams were sucking. It seemed to me that the Suns were playing good D though and yea, thats all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe, but I don't think the Suns are afraid to play the Spurs either.

hmm, i think i disagree in regards to a few players. i think marion doesn't like to the spurs. and i think barbosa goes back to being a child when he sees the black and grey.

but even if none of them are afraid, that's not exactly what i'm talking about. the spurs just see it as another game against a better than average opponent. i don't think they're talking about the game days in advance. the suns, on the other hand, talk about the spurs all the time. you hear it from dantoni a lot. the build up to the game is tremendous on the suns' side. that means they're thinking more about the spurs than about executing their gameplan. it's why the spurs are more often able to control the tempo and style of the game than are we.

the different in these two mindsets is that when things go south, the spurs continue to plug along. but the suns panic if something goes wrong. shots get rushed. untimely turnovers occur. good shooters get tight. different mindsets.

 

[Ciani]

I haven't read the thread yet, but if anyone bad mouthed Diaw, you don't know anything about basketball. Diaw did an AMAZING job on Duncan. He was way outsized and kept Duncan away from the bucket, and made him work for everything. I thought D'Antoni screwed up by having the LB-Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare line up out there late. He eventually corrected it after TD got an easy shot on Amare, but it was too late.

I thought the same, Duncan found the rythem with Amare on him, while Diaw played fantastic defense all night.

It was a disappointing loss, but its unfair not to recognize how good the Suns defense was, and we gave up only 6 offensive rebounds (and not because the Spurs shot the ball well). Those are the two biggest concerns about the Suns.

Nash and Amare will be better in the playoffs (they lost us the game, both made too many mistakes), so I also like our chances in the post season if we can play this kind of D all way long.

Barbs was so bad, that I thought Banks should have got some playing time.

 

[green machine]

hmm, i think i disagree in regards to a few players. i think marion doesn't like to the spurs. and i think barbosa goes back to being a child when he sees the black and grey.

but even if none of them are afraid, that's not exactly what i'm talking about. the spurs just see it as another game against a better than average opponent. i don't think they're talking about the game days in advance. the suns, on the other hand, talk about the spurs all the time. you hear it from dantoni a lot. the build up to the game is tremendous on the suns' side. that means they're thinking more about the spurs than about executing their gameplan. it's why the spurs are more often able to control the tempo and style of the game than are we.

the different in these two mindsets is that when things go south, the spurs continue to plug along. but the suns panic if something goes wrong. shots get rushed. untimely turnovers occur. good shooters get tight. different mindsets.

I'll give you Marion and Barbosa, but I don't think it's just the Spurs, because both have been known to go all tortilla on us against different teams.

As far as the build up, if a reporter asks D'Antoni or anyone on the team about the Spurs then you get a quote about them. I don't think the Suns players walk around and go to the media wanting to talk about San Antonio.

But, we'll have to agree to disagree here. Either way it's cool because this thread has helped me drive my post count up. 5,000 here I come!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Barbs was so bad, that I thought Banks should have got some playing time.

i just don't know what happened to our little barbosa. he looks soooo much worse than he did last year. so much worse.

 

[HooverDam]

As far as the build up, if a reporter asks D'Antoni or anyone on the team about the Spurs then you get a quote about them. I don't think the Suns players walk around and go to the media wanting to talk about San Antonio

Plus, we all live in Phoenix and are nerdy, over zealous Suns fans. We hear or read nearly everything the Suns say to the media. How often do we hear the Spurs quotes? Probably not very often. Heck, do they even have beat reporters in San Antonio? I can't imagine what sort of princely sum you'd have to pay somewhere to live there, that place is a dump and makes Tucson look like heaven.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

ah well. if we don't make any moves none of this really matters until the playoffs. if we made a move these regular season games would mean something to me as we would have to see how the new parts work. but in the absence of such these games are just about positioning and beating a crap team counts as much as beating a good team. none of us pointing out the deficienies will ever convince those with blind faith. and the blind faith can only convince us doubters with playoff wins. so for now, it's a virtual stalemate (even if the doubters know we're right )

 

[krispydude]

- barbosa isnt allowed to drive anymore against the spurs. its a trainwreck.

- diaw did great on duncan.

- finley always seems to hit 3's for them in the last few min.

- manu cheap shotted bell. pretty easy to see since he swung his arm back.

- marion and amare switched roles being invisible in each half.

- fun game overall. bad shooting but still fun.

 

[HooverDam]

- finley always seems to hit 3's for them in the last few min.


- marion and amare switched roles being invisible in each half.

I'd have to go back and double check, but I believe Finley only made one shot tonight when he had to move his feet. He's devolved into almost strictly a jump shooter. If you can run at him and make him not take the three and then try to drive, he's a big mess.

Marion did a good job all game guarding the Spurs wings, even those his office went in the toilet in the 2nd half. Marion gives the Suns a huge key on defense against teams like the Spurs (which, if he was moved for almost anyone other than Gerald Wallace). Marion can guard most point guards, but, he can also do a good enough job on bigs. If he's out guarding a PG, and has to make a switch on the P&R, he's not dead in the water (like Nash would be if he was switched onto Duncan). So it allows the Suns to switch on the P&R, trap the ball handler, or go around the screen because of Marions length and quickness.

 

[Rab]

I thought the big turning point, and I hate to even say it because I hate blaming officials, was the obvious no call travel on Duncan on the baseline in the 4th quarter. Duncan threw the ball in the corner to Bowen and Nash picked up a foul. Spurs got the ball on the side and ended up knocking down a 3. From there it was a tight game.

Man was I pissed when Amare missed that last FT!!! I was ready for some overtime, seeing as how I paid way more than my ticket was worth.

 

[green machine]

I thought the big turning point, and I hate to even say it because I hate blaming officials, was the obvious no call travel on Duncan on the baseline in the 4th quarter. Duncan threw the ball in the corner to Bowen and Nash picked up a foul. Spurs got the ball on the side and ended up knocking down a 3. From there it was a tight game.

Man was I pissed when Amare missed that last FT!!! I was ready for some overtime, seeing as how I paid way more than my ticket was worth. :D

I don't know if anyone wanted to watch those two teams play anymore "basketball" tonight. It was awful to watch.

 

[Rab]

I don't know if anyone wanted to watch those two teams play anymore "basketball" tonight. It was awful to watch.

I did, even though it was very ugly.

 

[mojorizen7]

What i saw tonight was the SUNS come out ready and prepared to outplay the STERNS & they did. The SUNS played soilid defense for the majority of the game & they appeared to hold their own on the glass somewhat.
However , the STERNS couldn't shoot, they were having trouble making passes thru our tight "D" , our double teams were working great for awhile and forcing turnovers. That was an outstanding effort fromthe SUNS tonight IMO. We shot poorly in the 2nd half and it came down to a missed FT. We out hustled,out shot (edit:actually we were out shot by 0.7% pts) & outplayed their a$$es tonight but the problem remains.We don't have the system in place to overcome poor shooting .That is the system[shoot lights out and hope the other team stays cold]
It's one regular season loss. It's not a big deal but
the thing is the SPURS can shoot 30% on any given night & still be right there at the end because they D up and control the glass and when its winning time thet can get a stop on one end, and execute a high percentage shot on the other. They played like crap tonight until crunch time and were right there to win it despite it. Period.
The SUNS had some inspired play tonight but the fact is that teams that play defense and control the tempo of the game are ALWAYS going to be right there at the end against us (and anyone else) despite their poor shooting%.
I actually thought that DA made some nice adjustments tonight in changing up the way we ran guys at TD. The referees calls were mind boggling at times but i think it was called fairly for the most part.

We can't have our only weapon in the paint continue to guard the best PF/big on the other team. Amare HAS to be a force on the offensive end & stay outta foul trouble.
Someone mentioned earlier about DIAW's play tonight. I was very impressed with his effort on Duncan & on the glass.
The SPURS still own us & will continue to until we can win a series. We looked a little closer tonight but IMO we're still one big, & one coaching philosophy away from getting over it.