Steve Keim - The 750K GM......

[40yearfan]

Zing!

Sorry Chris. Arguing with Dj gets me crabby.

 

[CardsFan88]

Well if we could use the past as an reference point we'd realize that there were some weird things going on with the uncapped season and labor unrest.

We realize that it came in a world where the NHL threw the gauntlet down against the players and won, and have subsequently done it again.

While it's a guess, it's easy to think that in such a scenario the following things.

1. The teams were supposed to treat the uncapped year like it was a capped year. Thus not do anything crazy. Those that did were punished. Didn't a couple of teams lose some picks? Can't remember if that was pulled back at the last minute or not.

2. The NFL was obviously pushing for an even better deal then it got. The deal that was made essentially called for the cap to stay flat for about 4-5 years. That's what they BARELY came to agreement with to avert the loss of even a partial season. What in effect made it a flat cap for the next few years.

Therefore I feel speculation that their original positions was far, far lower than that. Meaning the NFL most likely had an opening position where the cap shrank a healthy amount. Graves knew where the owners were heading in that regards and left a chunk open to deal with it.

In such a scenario, and us knowing Rod Graves conservative nature, was the way we spent going into that situation because we were cheap or due to Rod Graves not wanting his balls in a vice when the cap shrank? Perhaps he even thought he'd be lauded as being a good GM who saw it coming and thus didn't have to cut talent. Who knows.

I wanted Graves gone about as much as anyone, but for all his faults, leaving the Cardinals in a horrible cap situation isn't one of them. While we are up against the cap now, we aren't 30 million over like some teams are sometimes.

Personally I try not to judge things on perception if I can help it. Thus when the media tries to call us cheap (or infer it) I have to laugh at their ignorance and want to tell them Reagan isn't in office anymore and the big hair band era is over.

When the Lakers or any professional team the media fawns over signs someone for cheap, it's a shrewd, championship wanting move. When the cards are MAYBE paying someone 750K to be a GM, they infer cheapness, and that then the coaches must be cheap as well.

We don't make people pay for their cleats anymore. I bet they even have direct deposit now too! Hey I hear they aren't rolling the stadium grass out because they want to save on electricity! Lord knows they open or close the stadium to save on air conditioning! Or at least that's what your typical out of town sports media person believes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Sorry Chris. Arguing with Dj gets me crabby.

Ha, ain't no thang 40, I'm just happy you remember who DJ is...

 

[Duckjake]

So does that make them cheap? Do you think every FA any NFL team spent money on was worth the dollars? Look at the Eagles or Redskins. Everybody will make a wrong call ocassionally, but regardless, the money was still spent and we are talking about the Cards being cheap. That is not the case.

You sure are grouchy today. I agreed with you and you still got upset. The problem with you 40 is you argue points nobody made and defend the Bidwills to the death whether they've made a good move or bad.

I swear if I didn't know better I'd think you and Nidan were the same person.

 

[40yearfan]

You sure are grouchy today. I agreed with you and you still got upset. The problem with you 40 is you argue points nobody made and defend the Bidwills to the death whether they've made a good move or bad.

I swear if I didn't know better I'd think you and Nidan were the same person.

The only thing I am defending them on is spending money. I'll agree that they once were cheap, but that is no longer the case. There is no shortage of dollars going out the door and it aggravates me when people don't pay enough attention to this team to realize that.

Does it make me mad when this team loses 9 in a row? Absolutely. I really thought Whis was the answer to our problems and that we were on our way to being Pittsburgh West. Turns out I was wrong, but I sure can't fault the Cards for trying. They extended all our good players, re-upped Whis's contract and did all the things a good NFL club would do. They took a chance on Kolb and so far, it hasn't worked out very well. I do believe (now in retrospect) that Whis and his coaching staff actually made our QB's and O-line worse rather than coaching them up. Hopefully, our new offensive coaching staff will be better. I think, behind a good O-line, Kolb could be an effective QB and not get injured so often. I'm not sure Horton is the answer at HC, but I can accept him if we get a strong OC.

 

[schutd]

Again that has nothing to do with what the article was about. Keim being the lowest paid GM simply indicates that the Cards may be on a tight budget when it comes to coaches and front office salaries.

Being the lowest paid GM in the NFL on the other hand is like being the last place player in the PGA tours Fed Ex Cup. You still get a bunch of $

I paid my dues, being a line cook, making crap money. I got my first sous chef job, making crap money. Proved myself worthy, got a raise. Through performance was eventually handed the keys to the entire kitchen, didnt get a raise. Proved myself worthy, got a raise. Since then, have negotiated raises based on performance and am happy where I am.

Why doesnt that correlate to the NFL? If Im a owner, why would I give more money for a unproven guy? And still, why shouldnt I hire the unproven guy when the "proven" ones have proven that for one reason or another, they were fired from their previous gig?

This whole "least paid" nonsense... Its a bit of a travesty these guys salaries are made public, honestly. Makes for nothing other than bulletin board freakouts all the time.

 

[slinslin]

When you start a new job without any experience you are going to earn less than your peers.

This means nothing, the Cardinals would be stupid to pay Keim anywhere near the amount more experienced proven GMs make. Afterall Keim might be an utter failure.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I guess you could say the Cards aren't as cheap as they used to be, but by comparative NFL standards, are still on the cheap side of things.

If the Cards EVER win a bidding war, or whatever you want to call it, for a player or coach that is in demand, then I'll start to change my view.

Paying Joey Porter 15 mill when nobody wanted him is not being cheap, it's stupid. It's like going and buying a Ford Fiesta and paying $40k and saying look at me, I'm not cheap.

Yet when Warner leads you to the SB, you haggle and fight with him every step of the way to the point he visits your division rival.

 

[schutd]

Not too dissimilar to how NO dealt with re-signing Drew Brees, no? Its all just part of the song and dance

 

[Totally_Red]

I guess you could say the Cards aren't as cheap as they used to be, but by comparative NFL standards, are still on the cheap side of things.

If the Cards EVER win a bidding war, or whatever you want to call it, for a player or coach that is in demand, then I'll start to change my view.

Paying Joey Porter 15 mill when nobody wanted him is not being cheap, it's stupid. It's like going and buying a Ford Fiesta and paying $40k and saying look at me, I'm not cheap.

Yet when Warner leads you to the SB, you haggle and fight with him every step of the way to the point he visits your division rival.

Very good point! I sort of wanted to retain Whis with significant changes, but the Joey Porter fiasco was a symptom of his ill-fated love affairs with former Steelers. In that sense, I'm glad he's gone.

 

[Garthshort]

And I understand he has to pay for his own drinks while watching games in the team box.

 

[football karma]

Jurecki just tweeted that an NFL source says that Keim is making in excess of $1 mm per year, and that PFT is wrong regarding Keim's salary

 

[ap11]

Looks like Mike Florio and his crack staff at PFT were wrong? Shocker.

Mike Jurecki ‏@mikejurecki
NFL source Cards GM Steve Keim is making ovr million dollars per year, he signed a 3 deal w/ the Cards last week, PFT report was inaccurate

 

[GuernseyCard]

It's difficult to get away from a "mantra" that is created due to decisions made in the past, and then you make your GM the LEAST paid GM in the NFL. At some point, you don't get the benefit of the doubt. You will probably make the same arguement when the Cards sign Horton as their head coach and he is one of the lowest paid coaches in the NFL as well.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is reasonable for people to call it a duck.

Mike Jurecki ‏@mikejurecki
NFL source Cards GM Steve Keim is making ovr million dollars per year, he signed a 3 deal w/ the Cards last week, PFT report was inaccurate

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This is funny. We're trying to see who is more accurate, Jurecki or Florio? That's like trying to see who was more worthless, Todd Heap or Stewart Bradley?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Btw, I sometimes golf with a former NFL LB that was in the Cards camp in the mid 2000's. I asked him if the rep of the Cards being cheap was true. He looked at me, smirked, and just said, "it's different". He didn't want to bad mouth the team but you could tell there is something to it.

If you want to know his name you can PM me. I don't want to put his name out here. He never played for the Cards but was a starting LB in the NFL for 5 years before injuries ended his career.

 

[JeffGollin]

Btw, I sometimes golf with a former NFL LB that was in the Cards camp in the mid 2000's. I asked him if the rep of the Cards being cheap was true. He looked at me, smirked, and just said, "it's different". He didn't want to bad mouth the team but you could tell there is something to it.

If you want to know his name you can PM me. I don't want to put his name out here. He never played for the Cards but was a starting LB in the NFL for 5 years before injuries ended his career.

Cbus - For years - when I've heard media people do a lot of "winking and nodding" about the Cardinals and the Bidwills, I have asked them repeatedly: "Can you be more specific? Can you give me an example? What exactly are you implying?" I've never gotten a satisfactory answer. I appreciate your effort to push harder with your friend.

Setting aside the issue of your source's anonymity for a moment - on top of that, he's implying that something is hinky about the way Cardinals do business, but declines to be more specific.

So all we really have here is an unknown source making an unknown allegation.

(Note - Are you sure you want to give up the name of your LB source in a private message? Stuff posted on the Internet never dies).

 

[clif]

Lol. Haters wrong again. I wonder if there will be a retraction or apology issued.

 

[Chopper0080]

Mike Jurecki ‏@mikejurecki
NFL source Cards GM Steve Keim is making ovr million dollars per year, he signed a 3 deal w/ the Cards last week, PFT report was inaccurate

Happy that PFT was inaccurate, hopefully even with this reporting Keim is getting paid at the bottom of the barrell. I also hope he does well enough that he deserves and gets a sizzable raise from the Cardinals when his contract is up.

 

[Reddog]

Btw, I sometimes golf with a former NFL LB that was in the Cards camp in the mid 2000's. I asked him if the rep of the Cards being cheap was true. He looked at me, smirked, and just said, "it's different". He didn't want to bad mouth the team but you could tell there is something to it.

If you want to know his name you can PM me. I don't want to put his name out here. He never played for the Cards but was a starting LB in the NFL for 5 years before injuries ended his career.

I buy that for 2005 but not anymore. Mike Bidwill and the organization have proven they are not cheap since he has been involved and since the stadium has been built. Now no one is claiming they have made all the right decisions since then but I don't think it has been for the lack of spending.

 

[SunsTzu]

Happy that PFT was inaccurate, hopefully even with this reporting Keim is getting paid at the bottom of the barrell. I also hope he does well enough that he deserves and gets a sizzable raise from the Cardinals when his contract is up.

I really don't see how this changes anything. How much he is getting paid isn't any indication of how well he'll do as GM.

 

[kerouac9]

in 2010, they spent 30 million dollars less then the previous year's cap. You can't deny that. and the idea that the spent that money the next year is ludicrous. they basically PUNTED on an entire year 40.

and where are you getting your numbers on 2012? I'm not asking what they spent.. I'ma skign how much under the cap they were. i was under the impression that they were 7 million under the cap this year.

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/06/22/breathing-cap-space-for-cards/

I'm not sure where your number came from. Going into training camp, the Cards had in the ball park of $5 million in cap space, and then did the extension for Daryl Washington in-season. We saved some money when we cut Levi Brown, forced a salary reduction on Stewart Bradley, and restructured Darren Colledge. IIRC, we could have rolled whatever we had left over from 2011 into the 2012 cap, but elected not to.

The Cards' spending in 2010 was indefensible. But as Joe and others have pointed out, the Cards' total payroll has been a little ahead of most of the league. Now some of those chickens are coming home to roost in the form of big cap charges for below-average players like Colledge, Snyder, and Kolb.

 

[crisper57]

At least Graves was consistent. He'd back-load contracts to make sure we'd be paying a premium for players, just as their skills start to diminish. At least he did with the middle-of-the-road pack.

 

[Chopper0080]

The only thing I am defending them on is spending money. I'll agree that they once were cheap, but that is no longer the case. There is no shortage of dollars going out the door and it aggravates me when people don't pay enough attention to this team to realize that.

Does it make me mad when this team loses 9 in a row? Absolutely. I really thought Whis was the answer to our problems and that we were on our way to being Pittsburgh West. Turns out I was wrong, but I sure can't fault the Cards for trying. They extended all our good players, re-upped Whis's contract and did all the things a good NFL club would do. They took a chance on Kolb and so far, it hasn't worked out very well. I do believe (now in retrospect) that Whis and his coaching staff actually made our QB's and O-line worse rather than coaching them up. Hopefully, our new offensive coaching staff will be better. I think, behind a good O-line, Kolb could be an effective QB and not get injured so often. I'm not sure Horton is the answer at HC, but I can accept him if we get a strong OC.

My point was the Cardinals have been historically cheap when paying for coaches and staff, not with players and the salary cap.

As far as the coaching search goes, when you fail to have your staff in place so close to important offseason dates like the East/West game, Senior Bowl, Combine and start of free agency it should raise some concern. Especially when you continue to extend your coaching search due to the candidates who you have brought in to interview choosing to go to other organizations other than yours.

As far as about my wanting something to "bitch" about, I am a Cardinals fan, I don't have to look far. I am more than justified to being skeptical of the Cardinals replacing an inept GM in Rod Graves with a cheaper/inexperienced one FROM THE SAME STAFF in Steve Keim. The same staff that has not only made several draft blunders over the recent years but has also been inept in free agency. I am more than justified to being skeptical of the Cardinals trying to hire a new coach yet being passed on by two of the four candidates they have interviewed, and the in-house option being left hanging in the wind. Now they are bringing in more candidates because the options left from those they have interviewed leave them wanting more.

Do I post that my opinions are factual? No, like anyone not associated with the NFL, I take the info that I am privvy to and base my opinions off of that. If the info that is put out for public consumption is inaccurate, than most opinions posted on this board are also inaccurate. Deal with it.

Finally, you hinge your posts on the premise that things have changed with the Cardinals. My question is, have they really? We are still drafting in the top half of the draft. We are still having coaching turnover. We are still missing on high draft picks. We are still signing bad free agents to bad contracts. We are still hiring inexperienced coaches and front office men and expecting them outperform their more experienced peers. Your idea that 3 amazing years can somehow trump 60 years of ineptitude is mind blowing. I agree that it has appeared we have started to make changes, but those are only changes to get us on par with how the rest of the league works, not to set us ahead. You need to open your eyes because the two guy who took us to the top of the mountain (Whisenhunt & Warner) are gone, and we have yet to fill either of their shoes.

 

[Chopper0080]

I really don't see how this changes anything. How much he is getting paid isn't any indication of how well he'll do as GM.

I believe in life, you get what you pay for. If you want to have someone build a house for you, you basically have two options. You can hire someone who does not have a ton of experience and pay less OR you can hire someone with a ton of experience and generally pay more. In the end, it is your choice. HOWEVER, you shouldn't be shocked when the one who was cheaper and had less experience builds a house that is inferior to the house built by the more experienced and more expensive builder. Yes, there is a chance you can get a better house for less money, but the greater odds state that you won't.