Stoudemire trying to go from superstar to most improved

[pokerface]

Here's my current superstar list:

Nash
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Garnett
Nowitzki

Amare isn't a superstar yet. I think he'll be one. But he doesn't have the leadership qualities or the consistent ability to control games yet. Every other guy on that list has an extra quality or accolade on their resume.

I agree with this post.


Amare does need to have that "extra" quality to put him in superstar status. Its one of those things "you know it when you see it".

 

[fordronken]

i don't any criteria by which garnett would be one for you and lebron not. numbers, success, name recognition, whatever you want lebron wins. that's just hating imo.

by the way, for me its kobe, wade, lbj. that's it. those guys aren't even the top 3 players in the league to me, but they're the superstars. maybe you can add shaq to the list as he's still got the recognition.

its the difference between sharapova and davenport. both win, only 1 is a superstar. success is not the only deciding factor in that assessment obviously.

I think LeBron has every opportunity to get there, but he's not yet. He hasn't done enough for me. To me, last year's playoffs only had two teams who had what it took to win a title and nobody else even came close to playing at their level. I think LeBron is really close, but he needs to make the leap. He hasn't done that. Saying that Garnett doesn't deserve it just adds to my argument that he is one of the most underrated players of all time. I don't think people fully appreciate how good he is. Maybe he's taken enough of a step back that he's not quite there anymore, but I'm not so sure. The most questionable guy to me on my own list is Dirk. But he did lead a team against a deep Western Conference and get them to the finals. He's been the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league for the last few years. He may just be a guy, though, who isn't quite that player and may never be.

 

[Bufalay]

I think LeBron has every opportunity to get there, but he's not yet. He hasn't done enough for me. To me, last year's playoffs only had two teams who had what it took to win a title and nobody else even came close to playing at their level. I think LeBron is really close, but he needs to make the leap. He hasn't done that. Saying that Garnett doesn't deserve it just adds to my argument that he is one of the most underrated players of all time. I don't think people fully appreciate how good he is. Maybe he's taken enough of a step back that he's not quite there anymore, but I'm not so sure. The most questionable guy to me on my own list is Dirk. But he did lead a team against a deep Western Conference and get them to the finals. He's been the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league for the last few years. He may just be a guy, though, who isn't quite that player and may never be.

I hate the way Lebron plays and I think for the most part he is overrated, but that game 5 against Detroit made him a superstar. That was one of the most impressive displays I have seen since Jordan retired.

 

[fordronken]

I hate the way Lebron plays and I think for the most part he is overrated, but that game 5 against Detroit made him a superstar. That was one of the most impressive displays I have seen since Jordan retired.

So one game makes you a superstar? How about how much he sucked in the finals?

Look, he's really good. But so are a lot of other players. I don't think he's matured enough as a player to be a superstar. He's closer than Amare, but he's not there yet. Wade has that maturity right now. But he's older. I think LeBron will make it, maybe even next year. But he's not there yet.

 

[dodie53]

MY list of current superstars in the nba..

nash,
kobe,
lebron,
duncan,
KG,
dirk,
kidd

 

[cly2tw]

Actually, there are two true superstars in the NBA, right now: Kobe and Duncan. The second tier consists of LBJ, Wade, Nash, Dirk, Amare, KG, TMac.

 

[arwillan]

amare > wade for one thing

for another, amare IS without a doubt a superstar. averaging 30 points over tim duncan at age, what, 22? that is a superstar. he is known all around the world as a basketball icon. people also gameplan especially for him, because he is so hard to stop. he is a superstar.

 

[pokerface]

for another, amare IS without a doubt a superstar. averaging 30 points over tim duncan at age, what, 22? that is a superstar.

....and what did Duncan score on Amare? Whos team advanced that season?

 

[arwillan]

....and what did Duncan score on Amare? Whos team advanced that season?

i dont have the stats at hand for duncans scoring. but reguardless, amare is NOT known for defense like duncan is so giving up 30 is a huge deal for duncan. who cares which team advanced? this is a superstar discussion, not an mvp discussion


EDIT: duncan had 23.6 ppg to amare's 29.9. duncan had 12.5 rebs to amare's 10.7

 

[pokerface]

All I'm saying it TD has the hardware and the years of a steller reputation. Its not fair to Duncan to be compared to Amare.

If Amare is a superstar then Duncan is something above that.

 

[arwillan]

All I'm saying it TD has the hardware and the years of a steller reputation. Its not fair to Duncan to be compared to Amare.

If Amare is a superstar then Duncan is something above that.

duncan is a legend and a lock for the hall of fame. one of the best to play his position. seems above superstar to me

 

[azirish]

duncan is a legend and a lock for the hall of fame. one of the best to play his position. seems above superstar to me

Duncan's also a lot older and started with a very strong team when drafted.

But of course this is not Poke's point, He just wants to denegrate Amare. Why? No particulary good reason. Apparently being named First team All NBA isn't enough. He's got to come up with some wacky definition that means there are only 4 superstars, only it includes Dirk who lacks a great reputation in the playoffs and is a very poor defender. Take away Dirk, and the list goes down to 3 guys.

The one interesting thing about Amare is that he is probably the only First Team All NBA who is likely to do better this year than last.

 

[pokerface]

Duncan's also a lot older and started with a very strong team when drafted.

But of course this is not Poke's point, He just wants to denegrate Amare. Why? No particulary good reason. Apparently being named First team All NBA isn't enough. He's got to come up with some wacky definition that means there are only 4 superstars, only it includes Dirk who lacks a great reputation in the playoffs and is a very poor defender. Take away Dirk, and the list goes down to 3 guys.

The one interesting thing about Amare is that he is probably the only First Team All NBA who is likely to do better this year than last.

Degenerate Amare?


I'm not the only Suns fan on here that doesnt think Amare has reached superstar status yet. Does that make us degenerates irish? Every player named "first team all NBA" isnt a superstar...Not in my mind anyway.

 

[Bufalay]

duncan is a legend and a lock for the hall of fame. one of the best to play his position. seems above superstar to me

I don't understand why Duncan is considered a power forward. He's the tallest guy on the team. They have him post up every time on offense and he anchors the defense. I would say that he's a top 10 center of all time and not a power forward. The only thing that makes him a power forward is that he guards the other teams power forward to avoid foul trouble.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Degenerate Amare?


I'm not the only Suns fan on here that doesnt think Amare has reached superstar status yet. Does that make us degenerates irish? Every player named "first team all NBA" isnt a superstar...Not in my mind anyway.

denigrate is not the same thing as degenerate. If you're going to laugh at someone, at least know what you're laughing at.

 

[pokerface]

denigrate is not the same thing as degenerate. If you're going to laugh at someone, at least know what you're laughing at.

Still funny all the same

 

[dodie53]

I don't understand why Duncan is considered a power forward. He's the tallest guy on the team. They have him post up every time on offense and he anchors the defense. I would say that he's a top 10 center of all time and not a power forward. The only thing that makes him a power forward is that he guards the other teams power forward to avoid foul trouble.

he started his career as a PF because david was their center,
maybe he just sticked to that position..

 

[Cheesebeef]

Still funny all the same

him or you? I usually give George a nod on the unintentional humor scale, but you take the cake in this thread. kudos.

 

[arwillan]

he started his career as a PF because david was their center,
maybe he just sticked to that position..

he really is a center though. he does the majority of the rebounding, defends the other teams best big man, is always in the post on offense, etc etc. i think you're right about robinson though, once you get to a position you just stick to it. there are no a-rod's in basketball

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Five pages of debate on whether you should use the term super with someone's name

eye heart teh offseason!

 

[cly2tw]

Five pages of debate on whether you should use the term super with someone's name

eye heart teh offseason!

So true. Who is super or not is not that relevant. One telling way to rank NBA players would be a hypothetical draft out of the whole pool of players to compete for the upcoming season only (so not considering potentials beyond next season). What'd be your draft order?

Duncan
Kobe
LBJ
Amare
Wade
Dirk
KG
Nash
Anthony
TMac/Yao

would make my top 10.

 

[pokerface]

him or you? I usually give George a nod on the unintentional humor scale, but you take the cake in this thread. kudos.

Thanks for the props!

 

[3rdside]

LBJ
Nash
KG
Duncan
Kobe
Dirk

 

[nashman]

No way soft Dirk goes before Amare! Nonsense!

 

[3rdside]

LBJ
Nash
KG
Duncan
Kobe
Amare
Dirk

Knew i was missing someone...