Stoudemire willing to help but wants team to add center

[George O'Brien]

If the Clippers match on Q, I still think the deal of Eisley and the Chicago pick for Dale Davis is worth considering. In this case, it might be necessary to have the Suns pay part of Eisley's salary, but it would work for both teams.

1. It would reduce the Blazer's salaries by at least $2.6 million - which is over $5.2 million in cash due to the luxury tax.

2. It would give the Blazer's an experienced point guard to backup Stoudamire until Telfair is ready to go.

3. It would give the Blazers a quality draft pick for rebuilding when and if they lose the guys they have coming off contract next season.

For the Suns

1. A quality, healthy big man who can play defense and rebound.

2. Frees up the Suns from the second year on Eisley's contract at $6.9 million. Next year the Suns would be able to either re-sign Davis for less money or let him go and have the $9 million in cap space back.

3. Get's the Suns an inside guy without breaking up their core at a net cost of less than any other center out there.

This kind of deal might not happen until after training cap starts and the Blazers get a chance to see if Eisley is healthy.

I hate giving up the Chicago pick, but I've been willing to use it move Eisley for a months. In this deal, the Suns get more than a pure salary dump and a guy who might hang around for a few years as a backup once Lampe develops.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Moving the pick for essentially cap space is to much to pay. As the team stand, a good chunk of the savings from Eisley will be tied into JJ.

A top 10 pick is not worth renting Dale Davis for a year.

 

[George O'Brien]

Moving the pick for essentially cap space is to much to pay. As the team stand, a good chunk of the savings from Eisley will be tied into JJ.

A top 10 pick is not worth renting Dale Davis for a year.

That is simply not true. JJ will be an RFA next summer. The Suns could use their cap space to sign a free agent and then go over the cap by matching JJ's offer following the waiting period.

Also, the Suns may simply scare off suitors by making it absolutely clear that they WILL match in much the same way that Memphis has with Swift.

In any case, next summer is the last time the Suns will be in position to go after a free agent. By the time Eisley comes off contract, it WILL be too late.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

That is simply not true. JJ will be an RFA next summer. The Suns could use their cap space to sign a free agent and then go over the cap by matching JJ's offer following the waiting period.

Also, the Suns may simply scare off suitors by making it absolutely clear that they WILL match in much the same way that Memphis has with Swift.

I am pretty sure that is incorrect George. If I get a chance, I will go look it up, but this is my thought process.


The clips are under the cap, and have an RFA in Quintin Richardson. So far, everything being said is IF the Clippers sign Kobe, using their cap space up, they will not be able to retain Q.

The reports haven't made it sound like a money issue, but a cap issue.

 

[Chaz]

I am pretty sure that is incorrect George. If I get a chance, I will go look it up, but this is my thought process.


The clips are under the cap, and have an RFA in Quintin Richardson. So far, everything being said is IF the Clippers sign Kobe, using their cap space up, they will not be able to retain Q.

The reports haven't made it sound like a money issue, but a cap issue.

I thought it was more of a position issue. If they have Kobe why do they need Q?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I thought it was more of a position issue. If they have Kobe why do they need Q?

Because at slightly more than the MLE, he is an awesome 6th man.

Actually, very similar to the reasoning the Suns want Q with their current roster....


I couldn't find an exact answer in Larry Coon's FAQ, so I sent him an email. I'll post his answer when I get it.

 

[George O'Brien]

I am pretty sure that is incorrect George. If I get a chance, I will go look it up, but this is my thought process.

The clips are under the cap, and have an RFA in Quintin Richardson. So far, everything being said is IF the Clippers sign Kobe, using their cap space up, they will not be able to retain Q.

The reports haven't made it sound like a money issue, but a cap issue.

With the Clippers, IT IS ALWAYS A MONEY ISSUE. Seriously, even if they could sign both, why would they? For the Suns, having Q gives them some leverage in dealing with JJ next year, but with Kobe he would there for six years.

BTW, the cap issue was mostly going the other way, that they could not sign Q first.

 

[sunsfn]

In these trade discussions everybody keeps referring to trading the Chicago pick.
I would think they would trade their own pick instead, the Chicago pick has a chance to be as high as # 5 in the draft. The suns should make the playoffs and their pick is apx. # 15 or lower.
I realize that Chicago could make the playoffs, but doubt it.
I guess they could use the deal where they trade the worst pick of the two.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

We cant deal our own pick. We owe a future first to SA, so that has to be settled before we can trade any other future firsts.

 

[sunsfn]

As long as we have a first next year (Chicago) we can trade out pick. Of course we could not trade the Chicago pick after that until the draft.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

As long as we have a first next year (Chicago) we can trade out pick. Of course we could not trade the Chicago pick after that until the draft.

Not true. The Spurs are owed a Phx Suns first round protected pick.

The suns may only offer a substitue pick from another team if SA agrees to it.

 

[slinslin]

As long as we have a first next year (Chicago) we can trade out pick. Of course we could not trade the Chicago pick after that until the draft.

No you are wrong.

We only have the Chicago pick if they don't end up with a top3 pick.

 

[Joe Mama]

As long as we have a first next year (Chicago) we can trade out pick. Of course we could not trade the Chicago pick after that until the draft.

That would be true if the Chicago pick was completely unprotected. However it is a top three protected pick. Therefore they cannot count on that actually being there.

Not true. The Spurs are owed a Phx Suns first round protected pick.

The suns may only offer a substitue pick from another team if SA agrees to it.

even though he was not completely correct sunsfn was not talking about giving San Antonio the Chicago draft pick. He was saying that because the Phoenix Suns have a draft pick (Chicago) they can trade their own. Again, that would be true only if the Chicago pick was completely unprotected.

Joe Mama

 

[SweetD]

I would not trade that pick until it lands were it is grated to. I think it is top 25 protected. Let San Tone wait until it is realy useless.

 

[sunsfn]

I forgot about the protected part........that would stop us from trading our pick.

 

[elindholm]

I couldn't find an exact answer in Larry Coon's FAQ, so I sent him an email. I'll post his answer when I get it.

I addressed this in another thread just a couple of days ago. You can't use up all of your cap space while simultaneously preparing to use a different player's Bird rights to go over the cap. I'll try to find the thread.

 

[Gaddabout]

That is simply not true. JJ will be an RFA next summer. The Suns could use their cap space to sign a free agent and then go over the cap by matching JJ's offer following the waiting period.

JJ is indeed a RFA next summer.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

 

[George O'Brien]

I couldn't find an exact answer in Larry Coon's FAQ, so I sent him an email. I'll post his answer when I get it.

I addressed this in another thread just a couple of days ago. You can't use up all of your cap space while simultaneously preparing to use a different player's Bird rights to go over the cap. I'll try to find the thread.

Maybe you are right, but my understanding was that full RFA's (not second round guys and guys under two year deals) the team always has the right to match. By contrast, the regular Bird situation does not give the team the automatic right to match.

 

[elindholm]

Maybe you are right, but my understanding was that full RFA's (not second round guys and guys under two year deals) the team always has the right to match. By contrast, the regular Bird situation does not give the team the automatic right to match.

The team must first sign its RFA to a qualifying offer, which is automatically added to the team salary.

The following links provide additional information:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#27

This explains the concept of a "free agent amount," which is the amount of cap space taken up by a team's unrenounced (and unsigned) free agent.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#28

This shows that a player coming off of his rookie scale contract takes up cap space equal to 300% of his last year's salary, assuming that salary was lower than the league average salary (which it always is except for very high picks). Note that this is a very large amount.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#29

This explains that what you are proposing -- use cap space to sign outside FAs, then exceed the cap by re-signing your own player with his Bird rights -- is severely restricted by the CBA.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#31

This clarifies that, once renouncing a player, a team cannot use their Bird rights to re-sign him over the cap. It also clarifies that renouncing a player frees up the cap room to pursue other free agents. In other words, a renounced RFA is no longer a RFA.

I hope this about covers it.

 

[coloradosun]

JJ is indeed a RFA next summer.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

If he decides that he does not want to test the market and signs a contract before next summer we won't have to worry about it. But I'm sure his agent will have something to say about that, greedy bastards.

 

[slinslin]

The Suns don't want to sign him to an extension right now..

 

[George O'Brien]

If he decides that he does not want to test the market and signs a contract before next summer we won't have to worry about it. But I'm sure his agent will have something to say about that, greedy bastards.

I was assuming that the Suns would make the qualifying offer for JJ's RFA. It is not reasonable that the team would be prevented from signing free agents with the remaining cap space on the possibility that the RFA would get a bigger offer.

 

[elindholm]

It is not reasonable that the team would be prevented from signing free agents with the remaining cap space on the possibility that the RFA would get a bigger offer.

Barring a trade, the Suns will have only MLE money next summer anyway -- assuming Richardson doesn't come and they sit on their current space.