Studying BA's Offense

[Mitch]

Formations:

1 RB---2 TE---2 WR

1 RB---1 TE---3 WR

1 RB---4 WR

Philosophies:

1 QB

No FB

Zone Running Game mixed with Down Blocks, Pulls and Kick-Outs
(Preference: When Defenses Are Not Stacking The Box)

6-7 Deep Passes Per Game
(Created by Finding Ways to Occupy and Bait The Safeties)

Threaten the Middle & Seams with TEs and slot WRs
(Primary Reason: High Percentage Passes To Suck the Safeties Up, so as to Open Up the Deep Middle and/or Thirds

No Wildcat or Speed Option Packages

Personnel Criteria:

Running Back

RB---3 down player---a banger inside, ideally with enough speed to turn the corner or burst through the middle---must be able to block in pass protection---receiving ability a plus, but not a priority

Proto-typical size/speed:

5-11, 220, 4.5

RBs who have thrived in BA's offense:

Rashard Mendenhall (PIT): 5-10, 225, 4.48
Vic Ballard (IND): 5-10, 217, 4.56

Tight End

TE---good size and speed, with ability to threaten the seams, good high-effort blocker---big-time red zone playmaker

Proto-typical size & speed:

6-5, 254, 4.7

TEs Who Have Thrived in BA's Offense:

Heath Miller (PIT) 6-5, 256: 76/789/10.4/6 tds (2009)
Dwayne Allen (IND) 6-4, 255: 45/521/11.6/3 tds (2012)---rookie
Coby Fleener (IND) 6-6, 247: 26/281/10.8/2 tds (2012)---rookie

Wide Receiver

WR---versatility a plus---must play fast, very fast---must be able to out-quick or out-power press coverage---sudden hands on rip moves and catches---RAC ability

Proto-typical size/speed:

5-11, 185, 4.4

WRs who have thrived in BA's offense:

Hines Ward (PIT) 6-0, 205: 95/1167/12.3/6 tds (2009)
Santonio Holmes (PIT) 5-10, 185: 79/1248/15.8/5 tds (2009)
Mike Wallace (PIT) 6-0, 180: 60/1275/21.0/10 tds (2011)---rookie
Antonio Brown (PIT) 5-10, 185: 69/1108/16.1/2 tds (2011)---rookie
Reggie Wayne (IND) 6-0, 198: 106/1355/12.8/5 tds (2012)
T.Y. Hilton (IND) 5-10, 183: 50/861/17.2/7 tds (2012)---rookie
Donny Avery (IND) 5-11, 185: 60/781/13.0/3 tds (2012)

Sub 6-0 WRs:

Holmes: 5-10
Brown: 5-10
Hilton: 5-10

Rookie Seasons For These Three:

Holmes: 52/942/18.1/8 tds
Brown: 69/1108/16.1/2 tds
Hilton: 50/861/17.2/7 tds

Draft Spots For These Three:

Holmes---Round 1
Brown---Round 6
Hilton---Round 3

Where Do All Three Thrive?

Turning short and intermediate catches into big gains due to excellent quickness and speed.

I know many of you think I and red desert are crazy to have Tavon Austin as our number 1 pick---but---when you look at what BA is able to do with slot WRs and how critical they are to the entire success of BA's offense, no pick could be more effective in making the offense dynamic.

Go back and look at the rookie numbers Holmes, Brown and Hilton put up in BA's offense---and you know what? Tavon Austin has more talent and RAC ability than all of them.

His rookie numbers could be off the charts.

For those who say take a WR later on, there is no other Tavon Austin in this draft. It's not even close.

Someone on the board yesterday tried to label TA as a "situational player"---if you study BA's offense going back to Antwan Randle El and Hines Ward and right through to the present, one can make the argument that the slot WR is the KEY figure in BA's offense. He's the straw that stirs the drink. He opens everything up---and is a constant deep threat.

Imagine This:

1. Tavon Austin, 5-8 1/2, 175, 4.34, WR/RB/KR, West Virginia
2. Zach Ertz, 6-6, 250, 4.7, TE, Stanford
3. Dallas Thomas, 6-5, 308, G/T, Tennessee
4. Brandon Jenkins, 6-3, 265, OLB/DE, Florida St.
5. David Quessenberry, 6-5, 295, T/G/C, San Jose St.
6. Duke Williams, 5-11, 203, SS, Nevada
7. Jake Knott, 6-2, 240, WILB, Iowa St.

imo, that draft gets us to the playoffs this year.

 

[Buckybird]

I'm in

 

[Goldfield]

I know one thing. We have to get another good TE. I bet we draft one in the second round.

If they think Austin is BPA I have no problem taking him.

 

[juza76]

Formations:

1 RB---2 TE---2 WR

1 RB---1 TE---3 WR

1 RB---4 WR

Philosophies:

1 QB

No FB

Zone Running Game mixed with Down Blocks, Pulls and Kick-Outs
(Preference: When Defenses Are Not Stacking The Box)

6-7 Deep Passes Per Game
(Created by Finding Ways to Occupy and Bait The Safeties)

Threaten the Middle & Seams with TEs and slot WRs
(Primary Reason: High Percentage Passes To Suck the Safeties Up, so as to Open Up the Deep Middle and/or Thirds

No Wildcat or Speed Option Packages

Personnel Criteria:

Running Back

RB---3 down player---a banger inside, ideally with enough speed to turn the corner or burst through the middle---must be able to block in pass protection---receiving ability a plus, but not a priority

Proto-typical size/speed:

5-11, 220, 4.5

RBs who have thrived in BA's offense:

Rashard Mendenhall (PIT): 5-10, 225, 4.48
Vic Ballard (IND): 5-10, 217, 4.56

Tight End

TE---good size and speed, with ability to threaten the seams, good high-effort blocker---big-time red zone playmaker

Proto-typical size & speed:

6-5, 254, 4.7

TEs Who Have Thrived in BA's Offense:

Heath Miller (PIT) 6-5, 256: 76/789/10.4/6 tds (2009)
Dwayne Allen (IND) 6-4, 255: 45/521/11.6/3 tds (2012)---rookie
Coby Fleener (IND) 6-6, 247: 26/281/10.8/2 tds (2012)---rookie

Wide Receiver

WR---versatility a plus---must play fast, very fast---must be able to out-quick or out-power press coverage---sudden hands on rip moves and catches---RAC ability

Proto-typical size/speed:

5-11, 185, 4.4

WRs who have thrived in BA's offense:

Hines Ward (PIT) 6-0, 205: 95/1167/12.3/6 tds (2009)
Santonio Holmes (PIT) 5-10, 185: 79/1248/15.8/5 tds (2009)
Mike Wallace (PIT) 6-0, 180: 60/1275/21.0/10 tds (2011)---rookie
Antonio Brown (PIT) 5-10, 185: 69/1108/16.1/2 tds (2011)---rookie
Reggie Wayne (IND) 6-0, 198: 106/1355/12.8/5 tds (2012)
T.Y. Hilton (IND) 5-10, 183: 50/861/17.2/7 tds (2012)---rookie
Donny Avery (IND) 5-11, 185: 60/781/13.0/3 tds (2012)

Sub 6-0 WRs:

Holmes: 5-10
Brown: 5-10
Hilton: 5-10

Rookie Seasons For These Three:

Holmes: 52/942/18.1/8 tds
Brown: 69/1108/16.1/2 tds
Hilton: 50/861/17.2/7 tds

Draft Spots For These Three:

Holmes---Round 1
Brown---Round 6
Hilton---Round 3

Where Do All Three Thrive?

Turning short and intermediate catches into big gains due to excellent quickness and speed.

I know many of you think I and red desert are crazy to have Tavon Austin as our number 1 pick---but---when you look at what BA is able to do with slot WRs and how critical they are to the entire success of BA's offense, no pick could be more effective in making the offense dynamic.

Go back and look at the rookie numbers Holmes, Brown and Hilton put up in BA's offense---and you know what? Tavon Austin has more talent and RAC ability than all of them.

His rookie numbers could be off the charts.

For those who say take a WR later on, there is no other Tavon Austin in this draft. It's not even close.

Someone on the board yesterday tried to label TA as a "situational player"---if you study BA's offense going back to Antwan Randle El and Hines Ward and right through to the present, one can make the argument that the slot WR is the KEY figure in BA's offense. He's the straw that stirs the drink. He opens everything up---and is a constant deep threat.

Imagine This:

1. Tavon Austin, 5-8 1/2, 175, 4.34, WR/RB/KR, West Virginia
2. Zach Ertz, 6-6, 250, 4.7, TE, Stanford
3. Dallas Thomas, 6-5, 308, G/T, Tennessee
4. Brandon Jenkins, 6-3, 265, OLB/DE, Florida St.
5. David Quessenberry, 6-5, 295, T/G/C, San Jose St.
6. Duke Williams, 5-11, 203, SS, Nevada
7. Jake Knott, 6-2, 240, WILB, Iowa St.

imo, that draft gets us to the playoffs this year.

Im fine with this draft..mitch brandon jenkins could be ready for the start of the season???

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I have no problem drafting Austin, but I think they should consider trading either Roberts or Floyd on draft day to pick up another mid to high pick in this draft. They could still keep both of them and have a 4 deep receiving core, but they would rarely all be on the field at the same time.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[red desert]

I think the fact that we do not have Tavon coming in for an interviews tells us BA is seriously hoping others fall asleep to our true intentions. He is all about misdirection.

Good post, Mitch.

"I got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals"

- Butch Cassidy

 

[kerouac9]

I know many of you think I and red desert are crazy to have Tavon Austin as our number 1 pick---but---when you look at what BA is able to do with slot WRs and how critical they are to the entire success of BA's offense, no pick could be more effective in making the offense dynamic.

Go back and look at the rookie numbers Holmes, Brown and Hilton put up in BA's offense---and you know what? Tavon Austin has more talent and RAC ability than all of them.

LOLz. What has he been able to do with slot receivers? You don't have any information about whether Hilton or Avery were used in the slot or split wide in the formation, or about the overall usage of 3rd receivers in the offense. Meanwhile, Arians' offenses haven't been "successful" in any traditional statistical or productivity sense, so you have to question the premises of that offense when it's been consistently mediocre.

Your comments on the "prototypical" aspects of Arians' TEs are more wishful thinking than fact. Heath Miller--the TE that Arians has the most experience with--ran a 4.87 40 at his Pro Day (http://40-yard-dash-times.com/pittsburgh-steelers-te.html).

Dwayne Allen ran a 4.89 40 at the Combine last year: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/dwayne-allen?id=2533046

We already have Housler, although Arians wanted to make him a wideout when he scouted him whilst with Pittsburgh.

I have no idea why you're hanging Santonio Holmes' rookie season on Bruce Arians. The 2006 Pittsburgh Steelers were coached by Bill Cowher, coordinated by Ken Whisenhunt. Arians may have been Holmes' WR coach, but it's a bit of a stretch to say it was "Arians' system" that made his Andre Roberts-like 49 reception, 824-yard, 2 TD rookie year possible.

Although you might want to put some credit for Holmes' 5 fumbles on Arians' coaching.

The number you credit to Holmes' rookie year is actually his second season in the NFL. But let's not let the facts get in the way of some misleading statistics.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Drafting a 5'8" WR with the #8 overall pick would be an epic disaster IMO. The Cardinals need to draft an OT or Pass Rusher at that spot.

 

[Zeno]

Austin is not a top half of the first round pick, let alone #7 overall.

 

[Duckjake]

Just for fun I watched the Colts opening drive vs NE. First thing I noticed was how much better as a group their oline was than ours. Then about halfway through the drive Arians goes from 3 wide to a 2 TE set. With both TEs on the same side! 4 blockers on one side of the center and two on the other.

They also ran pass plays where they didn't have to block the Pats outside rusher and doubled the DT.

Should be a fun season.

 

[Buckybird]

Austin is not a top half of the first round pick, let alone #7 overall.

I bet he goes in the top half

Have you ever seen when they look back at a draft 5 yrs later & project whom should've went where?

 

[JeffGollin]

The killer is that teams with numerous roster holes or fewer draft picks can't afford to risk squandering a pick on a playmaking scatback like Austin.

But roster-rich and pick-laden teams like SF and NE can afford to roll the dice on a little guy without risking a negative impact on their overall roster. The rich get richer.

 

[WildBB]

I keep seeing Quessenberry as a 5th Rd. option for us. Does he really make it that far? Someone who can supposedly play all along the OL at a decent level.

 

[LDL]

Well, I don't give a flying monkey fart about getting a WR when we have the protection/scheme problems we have. I would like to see the G (Warmack) or the G/C (Cooper, trade down) in round 1. You want to call that short sighted so be it, but drafting a once a decade player (the G) who is on the field and contributing every play is not something to just shrug off. Especially when you are advocating as the alternative, taking a player who may touch the ball 15 times a game (WR).

 

[DoTheDew]

Yeah. We can't let the Lions hold the honor of most 1st round picks spent on WRs the past 10 years. We need to take that title away from them.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I'll take the poor man's Tavon Austin, Andre Roberts, in the slot and address the O-line early and consider a second T-end later in the draft if BPA.

 

[Duckjake]

Well, I don't give a flying monkey fart about getting a WR when we have the protection/scheme problems we have. I would like to see the G (Warmack) or the G/C (Cooper, trade down) in round 1. You want to call that short sighted so be it, but drafting a once a decade player (the G) who is on the field and contributing every play is not something to just shrug off. Especially when you are advocating as the alternative, taking a player who may touch the ball 15 times a game (WR).

I've heard this a lot about Wide Receivers and only touching the ball 5-6-7 times a game but those touches can give results that gain as many yards as a RB who has 20. Fitz had a down year in 2012 but still accounted for almost 20% of the Cards offense. Fitz and Roberts together averaged only 8.5 touches per game but accounted for almost 40% of the teams total offense for the season.

So while our situation right now does call for the Guard you can't just dismiss the value of a WR because of the # of times he touches the ball.

 

[WildBB]

I'll take the poor man's Tavon Austin, Andre Roberts, in the slot and address the O-line early and consider a second T-end later in the draft if BPA.

If Zach Ertz is sitting there in the 2nd, it wouldn't shock me if they picked him up.

Or could you imagine the Cards manipulating the draft to where they traded down in the 1st and 2nd and still got Warmack & Ertz along with two more good picks!

 

[slanidrac16]

With all due respect Mitch, we need to solidify this o-line. Palmer is going to need a rock solid line in front of him or it will be another disasterous year of 50+ sacks.

Some of the best drafts are the "unspectacular" ones. The ones that aren't especially flashy but pay huge dividends in the long run. A couple of years ago the 49er's drafted 2 o-linemen, one and two. They have NO problems on the oline today. In the meantime we have tried to "build" our offesive line with cast offs and 7th round "projects".

It has to stop this year. I believe a mediocre Qb can play well behind a great o-line. Not so the other way around.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Zone Running Game mixed with Down Blocks, Pulls and Kick-Outs (Preference: When Defenses Are Not Stacking The Box)

Link ? Cause the debate rages on about this:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/grasping-at-straws-zone-blocking-192998.html

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/hey-why-not-cooper-over-warmack-193584.html

I REALLY don't care one way or the other. All I care about is the proof that this is what Arians are doing.

Cause what Shanahan/Kubiak do, and what the Steelers, and Ravens do in the running game are two different things, two different philosophies with greatly different personnel to run them.

It has been used as a convenient truth on this board for months, and I personally am tired of debating something that NO ONE has shown proof of one way or another.

My reasoning for Arians to have a power running game just comes from the coaching tree he has come from. That's it. I really don't have any proof.


Also, while I am at it the term, "Pulls and Kick-Outs" has been also debated of what Arians actually said. Some say he said, "double team kick out" and some say he said, " double kick out" And unfortunately no one can find the link to the video/article where Arians was talking about this.


I just ask for proof is all, since it has been asked of me countless times. As, I said, I just want to know, could care less what system it is.

But, I will say this current offensive line group is not made to run a zone blocking system ala Shanahan.

 

[BW52]

Why trade for Palmer if you`re not going to fix the O-line and give your QB protection and improve the running game.To not do this and draft a midget slot WR would be assinine.

 

[Totally_Red]

I really don't think BA is BSing when he says the wide receiver position is the strength of the team.

If this team drafts Tavon Austin with the needs at pass rusher and offensive line and with the wealth of premier talent at offensive tackle and guard at the top of the draft, they are absolutely insane IMO. Doing stuff like that is what screwed up the Raiders for the last few years.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We're more than good enough at WR. This is madness.

 

[Duckjake]

Watched some more Colts film. I can't tell what kind of blocking scheme they were running because it changed back and forth. In fact the Colts offense overall looked like something you'd see in the Big 12. A lot of WR screens and short quick passes. Vs Miami in the first two drives Indy only threw one pass longer than about 10 yards. Lots of misdirection as well on runs.

There was also a lot of this alignment:

T G C G T TE TE plus a WR on the shoulder of the outside TE or in the slot between the two TEs. The line does block at angles most of the time instead of straight ahead like the Cardinals did.

I don't believe there will be any power running game from Arians. Too many articles about the Steelers wanting to get back to the power run game and no evidence so far from watching film.

 

[Jim Otis]

We're more than good enough at WR. This is madness.

Absolutely , invest in an O-line that keeps our QB standing , and our RB running , and the Receivers that we have will inflict plenty of damage .