Summer League 09

[Mainstreet]

Majerle tells it straight about Suns game against Grizzlies. He takes aim at Lopez, Clark and Dragic.

Four games into NBA Summer League play, the Suns have cause for concern with three players they want to contribute in real games.

In the Suns' first game, center Robin Lopez had 24 points and 16 rebounds but has regressed since. Point guard Goran Dragic took three games to find his offensive feel and showed no command of a listless team Saturday. Rookie Earl Clark has shown the skills that made him the 14th overall pick in this year's NBA draft but has not countered the rap on his intensity.

See article by Paul Coro dated 7-18-09 at azcentral.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2009/07/18/20090718spt-suns.html

 

[sunsallday]

You guys take things too seriously. Getting all worked up over summer league games. lol. Pathetic.

 

[Mainstreet]

You guys take things too seriously. Getting all worked up over summer league games. lol. Pathetic.

Maybe you don't worry about the preparation of younger players for the regular season. I do. The development of younger players does not magically happen (like turning on a light switch) when the regular season starts.

 

[sunsallday]

A lot of good to great nba players have had a bad summer league only to tear it up in the regular season. Seriously, summer league is nothing to get worried about.

 

[Covert Rain]

Lopez is the real deal alright. He is another "real" example of a wasted pick by this organization.

 

[binkar]

Having watched all the games here are my thoughts/concerns:

There is no reason to be concerned about Clark. My one disappointment is that he isn't more aggressive. He can get to the rim fairly easily when he wants to, but the problem is that he has settled for jump shots nearly every time. His shot looks fine it just hasn't been falling. Nearly all of our free agents, aside from Downs, are looking for their own shots EVERY time down the court. There is very little ball movement or movement away from the ball. That makes it difficult for Goran and Robin to be as effective.

Robing is out of position too often which is what makes his rebounding numbers struggle. He also seems to want to block a shot every time which is good in some ways, but it also causes him to sag behind and gamble (for lack of a better word) instead of just getting in good position from the start and forcing them to pass or change their shot. Although his rebound numbers are poor, their are times when he creates rebounds by tipping the ball to his teammates.

Griffin looked better yesterday, but I am frustrated by his lack of rebounding (zero yesterday). With his athleticism and strength he should be a good rebounder for his position.

Dragic looked great for part of the game yesterday. He is cutting his turnovers down and getting to the hole consistently. It is hard as a point guard to be really effective when people aren't moving without the ball and putting them self in a position when Goran can find them. His outside shot has looked poor though.

I also disagree that Lopez was outplayed by Thabeet. Both of them were so terrible that it was impossible to say that one was better than the other.

 

[binkar]

If you have two second year players that are expected to contribute on your real team and they let the Memphis summer squad beat you by 37, you are in trouble.

Thabeet may be the worst top ten pick and may be the third best C on MEM. He is also better than Robin Lopez.

Dragic missed two threes, made 5/8 FTs and had two assists.

The video quality is so bad (think Real Player from 10 years ago) that it can be hard to assess what is happening, but the Suns looked atrocious. The audio commentary would help were it not down half of the time. Downs followed his good game w/ a terrible one, but he needs some more playing time.

I am confused as to why you choose to only point out the negatives of Dragic's game yesterday? He looked terrific in the second quarter and although he missed 2 threes, he shot over 50% from the floor and only had 1 turnover. Thats not too bad IMO. I feel like he needs to be a better floor leader though and get his guys proactive and moving well without the ball. Summer league is bad because it's a bunch of one-on-one crap with all the unknown players trying to prove their worth. Also Thabeet looked worse than Lopez. He is lazy, slow, and doesn't seem to care where as Robin is too hyperactive and gets himself out of position.

I'm thinking if the Suns could trade Lopez to a team (that could fully his absorb his contract) for a second round pick, this would be the way to go. The Suns didn't have a clue when they drafted Tucker and Lopez in the first round. I'm already beginning to worry about Clark. At least Dragic was a second round pick although the GS pick involved cost the Suns Blair.

The Suns should NOT trade Robin for a second round pick. The guy still has the ability to be exactly what this team needs if he calms down and plays controlled basketball. All of the scouting reports I have read from Vegas and my own observations say that he has the ability to be good. So why in the world would we trade him for a second round pick? It's not like he costs us a fortune.

 

[binkar]

Lopez is the real deal alright. He is another "real" example of a wasted pick by this organization.

Come on. He was the 15th pick in the draft and was known to be a project. We have the most impatient fan base of all time.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns should NOT trade Robin for a second round pick. The guy still has the ability to be exactly what this team needs if he calms down and plays controlled basketball. All of the scouting reports I have read from Vegas and my own observations say that he has the ability to be good. So why in the world would we trade him for a second round pick? It's not like he costs us a fortune.

Because the suns might have used his salary towards signing a center.

I tend to be a little sarcastic about Lopez but I think there is some truth to the matter when he plays so poorly. Potential is only potential until someone uses it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You're worrying about Clark after 3 Summer League games?

I was more worried after watching him for three underachieving years in college. His underwhelming summer league performances are just icing on the cake. Clark's going to be a very mediocre NBA player at best.

Yes, to the degree I don't trust the Suns FO to recognize talent. Maybe Clark will develop but I don't trust much of anything Sarver/ Kerr does with player personnel. In the draft the Suns needed a banger or another PG... not another SF. I've read others label Clark as soft. Hopefully this is not the case. The sooner Sarver and Kerr move on the better.

David Griffin does the scouting and makes the final draft day decisions, he's just as bad as Sarver and Kerr. And unfortunately he's in all likelihood going to be out next GM when Kerr moves along in the next 1-2 years.

 

[carey]

Come on. He was the 15th pick in the draft and was known to be a project. We have the most impatient fan base of all time.

Not really. All fan bases are like this in the internet age.

 

[Mainstreet]

David Griffin does the scouting and makes the final draft day decisions, he's just as bad as Sarver and Kerr. And unfortunately he's in all likelihood going to be out next GM when Kerr moves along in the next 1-2 years.

Griffin selected Banks to be the backup PG behind Nash when DA was playing GM for a year. Need I say more.

The Suns need to be sold.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Griffin selected Banks to be the backup PG behind Nash when DA was playing GM for a year. Need I say more.

The Suns need to be sold.

Griffin was also convinced that Dragic could be a reliable backup PG behind Nash both last year and this upcoming season. Remember all the nonsense about "hiding" Dragic and how vital it was to get him to the US?

 

[Mainstreet]

Griffin was also convinced that Dragic could be a reliable backup PG behind Nash both last year and this upcoming season. Remember all the nonsense about "hiding" Dragic and how vital it was to get him to the US?

I remember it became so widely known that the Suns were trying to move up in the second round to get Dragic that anyone could have grabbed him.

If he were that good, any other team would have drafted him and left him in Europe. I don't think his contract situation would have scared off any teams in the second round. The Suns FO even blew a gasket and gave the Spurs the GS pick which was Blair.

 

[binkar]

Because the suns might have used his salary towards signing a center.

I tend to be a little sarcastic about Lopez but I think there is some truth to the matter when he plays so poorly. Potential is only potential until someone uses it.

I agree with the statement on potential. You can't ride on potential forever. There comes a point where you have to cut ties and realize that the player is never going to meet that "potential". However, when they show flashes of goodness as Robin has (though I agree it isn't near often enough) and they have only played one year in the league (with very limited minutes), then you have to give it a lot longer then one rookie season to make an educated, solid decision.

Not really. All fan bases are like this in the internet age.

Probably true. It's just pathetic to give up on a 7 footer after one measily year in the league. A kid who wasn't even old enough to buy alcohol or gamble 4 months ago. To completely give up on the kid and sale him off for nothing or label him a complete bust is absurd. We knew that it would take a little time, and we knew that he wasn't going to be great offensively. He has shown flashes of his ability to protect the rim and has rebounded and a decent rate at time. He just plays too fast (which is far better then playing too slow IMO). Let him get some time playing consistent minutes on the NBA level and then proclaim him what you want after that. I am not saying I am pumped or excited by what I am seeing from Lopez, but it's far too early to declare him a wasted draft pick.

 

[Chaplin]

And competent big men that are good within their first year are extremely rare. Doesn't mean Robin will become a "good" player, it just means that it is ridiculous to completely write him off at this point.

 

[mojorizen7]

I hope we didn't draft Earl Diaw.

 

[tobiazz]

I am confused as to why you choose to only point out the negatives of Dragic's game yesterday? He looked terrific in the second quarter and although he missed 2 threes, he shot over 50% from the floor and only had 1 turnover. Thats not too bad IMO. I feel like he needs to be a better floor leader though and get his guys proactive and moving well without the ball. Summer league is bad because it's a bunch of one-on-one crap with all the unknown players trying to prove their worth. Also Thabeet looked worse than Lopez. He is lazy, slow, and doesn't seem to care where as Robin is too hyperactive and gets himself out of position.

I pointed out what I felt was indicative of the NBA output he will have. Sure he shows flashes, but most of these guys do or they would not even be drafted. If he can't hit threes, he's not going to be very effective in SSOL. If he can't hit FTs it makes it easier for the defense to foul him when he drives with no repercussions. Seeing him set up an iso to end out the half and then just fall down and get stripped is not encouraging. Few starting PGs do things like that.

Thabeet sucks just as I expected and he didn't look better than Lopez, but the problem is that a veteran like Lopez should be taking advantage of Thabeet's flaws. Other second year players like Randolph (19), Morrow (25), etc are asserting their superiority over the rookies.

I'm not saying the Suns should give up on these guys, but Lopez and Dragic must be considered role players and the team should not avoid acquiring Cs and PGs with potential.

As long as Lopez is going to end up being our starting C, I'm kind of wishing Curry didn't slip to GS and then we could have J. Hill, Belinelli, etc rather than watch this continued degradation. Hill, Lopez, Dragic, etc would be very seasoned when Nash's new extension ends.

Blowing it up and loading up on rookie scale contracts would be a great idea because we will likely remain in an economic depression for at least 2-3 more years. Keeping payroll low while developing talent could pay off big in a few years.

Anyway, I've digressed enough.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope we didn't draft Earl Diaw.

I predict Earl will make Diaw look like an all-star.

I predict the Suns will trade Amare before the February trade deadline if not earlier.

I predict Sarver will sell the Suns after next season.

I predict an organization will buy the Suns with JC again the face of the franchise (although he will not likely be a primary investor).

Sorry, I was just watching Nostradamus on the history channel.

 

[tobiazz]

I predict Earl will make Diaw look like an all-star.

I predict the Suns will trade Amare before the February trade deadline if not earlier.

I predict Sarver will sell the Suns after next season.

I predict an organization will buy the Suns with JC again the face of the franchise (although he will not likely be a primary investor).

Sorry, I was just watching Nostradamus on the history channel.

Those are more direct predictions than Nostradamus ever made so you have surpassed him already. I find your predictions feasible except for the JC one. JC stopped caring a whole hell of a lot about the Suns once he was able to bring his true love to the Valley, baseball. I think he's more interested in the Olympic team at this point.

I would like to see a multi-billionaire buy the team. An owner like that would have no reason to trade Shaq for nothing and would have a pick in next year's draft right now. Like the economic depression, we are only seeing the initial effects of Sarvkerr's ineptitude right now. In three year's, the Suns will have little talent and they will only start drafting new players in two years from now, barring a trade for picks in which Kerr is not fleeced. 2011-2014 will probably be a dark time for the Suns.

 

[tobiazz]

Yesterday, I was going to mention that Lopez had been performing better that McGee as we were looking at him as a draft choice. Today, McGee went 31 PTS, 11/16 FG, 9/10 FT, 8 REB, 4 BLKS with 0 assists, 2 TOs, and 5 fouls. Granted it was against a comatose Jordan Hill.

Will Lopez outplay DeAndre Jordan today? In 115 minutes, Jordan has ZERO assists.

 

[jandaman]

Lol at tobiazz, saying Lopez is a veteran.... Lopez rode the bench as a rookie 20 year old last year. Veteran doesnt come close.

You can say he has "been" at Summer league before, but technically no "veterans" are in the summer league.

And Its irritating that some continue to be impatient. If Lopez was a 12 point 7 rebound type player as a rookie, Im pretty sure he would of went top 5 in the draft.... he was picked 15, which is a case of "potential" prospect type.

Clark has the abilities, but has questionable drive... thats always been the knock on him. Hence he was regarded as second most talented player in the draft, but he went No.14. Its stupid to see some fans use the reason why he slipped against him at this time. The Suns picked him at No.14 because he again has potential to get better in time. You dont "get better" in 3 summer league games. He needs Nash, Hill, the TEAM to get on his face and ASK him to step up effort wise during in game situations.. thats only when he can "wake up" and realize his potential.

I'm sticking to the prediction that...
Lopez, given time on court, will produce decent to "good" results, not all-star, but good enough for the expectations on a pick 15 big man.

Clark, is ALL about developing his hunger, his ability to apply his skills... its motivation and on court knowledge that coaches, players WILL provide him as the season goes on....hence I want him getting good minutes to learn.

 

[Duke of Oysters]

I predict Earl will make Diaw look like an all-star.

I predict the Suns will trade Amare before the February trade deadline if not earlier.

I predict Sarver will sell the Suns after next season.

I predict an organization will buy the Suns with JC again the face of the franchise (although he will not likely be a primary investor).

Sorry, I was just watching Nostradamus on the history channel.

Hey, you're supposed to write your predictions in quatrains.

 

[tobiazz]

Lol at tobiazz, saying Lopez is a veteran.... Lopez rode the bench as a rookie 20 year old last year. Veteran doesnt come close.

You can say he has "been" at Summer league before, but technically no "veterans" are in the summer league.

And Its irritating that some continue to be impatient. If Lopez was a 12 point 7 rebound type player as a rookie, Im pretty sure he would of went top 5 in the draft.... he was picked 15, which is a case of "potential" prospect type.

Clark has the abilities, but has questionable drive... thats always been the knock on him. Hence he was regarded as second most talented player in the draft, but he went No.14. Its stupid to see some fans use the reason why he slipped against him at this time. The Suns picked him at No.14 because he again has potential to get better in time. You dont "get better" in 3 summer league games. He needs Nash, Hill, the TEAM to get on his face and ASK him to step up effort wise during in game situations.. thats only when he can "wake up" and realize his potential.

I'm sticking to the prediction that...
Lopez, given time on court, will produce decent to "good" results, not all-star, but good enough for the expectations on a pick 15 big man.

Clark, is ALL about developing his hunger, his ability to apply his skills... its motivation and on court knowledge that coaches, players WILL provide him as the season goes on....hence I want him getting good minutes to learn.

"Lol" at yourself. Kerr, among others, stated players improve the most during the summer after their first season and several of the announcers have made the same point. I was using "veteran" in place of non-rookie. You will often hear announcers calling a second year player a veteran. One year of NBA training, playing time or not, gives the second year players a huge advantage over the rookies. I think Lopez probably has improved, but his physical ceiling is apparent.

Anyway, my outlook for Lopez is the same as yours, so you don't need to nitpick my choice of words My sig says he cannot be an all-star and I wrote that it would be a bad idea to trade him for a second round pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

Those are more direct predictions than Nostradamus ever made so you have surpassed him already. I find your predictions feasible except for the JC one. JC stopped caring a whole hell of a lot about the Suns once he was able to bring his true love to the Valley, baseball. I think he's more interested in the Olympic team at this point.

I still think the Suns are JC's baby and it hurts him to see want has happened. I don't think JC wanted for the Suns what happened to the Diamondbacks after he left. I really think JC thought Sarver had his heart in the right place. It would be great to see BC return as GM as well.