Summer trades?

[Cheesebeef]

I hope we draft Ayton so we never have to read Lens name again. All he did was tantalize us and not deliver in a sustained manner.

Tantalize might be a bit strong to describe anything Len ever did.

 

[pokerface]

Tantalize might be a bit strong to describe anything Len ever did.

I don't know...he did show flashes

 

[pokerface]

I don't think he tantalized anyone over the last 2 years or so. He's been nothing but frustrating. 2 years ago it was frustrating because that seemed to be his last year here and he still wasn't producing consistently and then this last season he started the season really well. That's typical Suns luck, a player finally "gets it" when they're on their way out the door but he fell apart in late December, reverting to the Len we've all come to know. He had a few games where he looked good throughout the remainder of the season but no one allowed his brief flashes to fool them.

but no one allowed his brief flashes to fool them

Aka fools gold

 

[sdscard4]

Hated the Len pick from the get go. Nothing we could do though that draft was horrible.

 

[pokerface]

Hated the Len pick from the get go. Nothing we could do though that draft was horrible.

That draft set us back years. It's only now do we have the chance to wipe the slate clean and set things right at center.

 

[Hoop Head]

That draft set us back years. It's only now do we have the chance to wipe the slate clean and set things right at center.

That's an overstatement. That draft was a crapshoot and many of the teams picking in the lottery struck out. You can only say a draft set a team back years if they grabbed a bust while those around them got talent, like when the Pistons took Darko when Cleveland got Lebron, Denver got Melo, Miami got Wade, and Toronto got Bosh. In the top 5 from the 2013 draft, can you name the top player without looking it up? I'll give you a hint, they don't play for the team that drafted them and the team that sent them packing doesn't have who they were traded for either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's an overstatement. That draft was a crapshoot and many of the teams picking in the lottery struck out. You can only say a draft set a team back years if they grabbed a bust while those around them got talent, like when the Pistons took Darko when Cleveland got Lebron, Denver got Melo, Miami got Wade, and Toronto got Bosh. In the top 5 from the 2013 draft, can you name the top player without looking it up? I'll give you a hint, they don't play for the team that drafted them and the team that sent them packing doesn't have who they were traded for either.

Oladipo.

 

[Errntknght]

Bennett, Porter, Zeller, Oladipo, Len is the way I recall it...

 

[pokerface]

That's an overstatement. That draft was a crapshoot and many of the teams picking in the lottery struck out. You can only say a draft set a team back years if they grabbed a bust while those around them got talent, like when the Pistons took Darko when Cleveland got Lebron, Denver got Melo, Miami got Wade, and Toronto got Bosh. In the top 5 from the 2013 draft, can you name the top player without looking it up? I'll give you a hint, they don't play for the team that drafted them and the team that sent them packing doesn't have who they were traded for either.

What's the overstatement? The draft didn't set us back years? It was a bad draft 'class' that we didn't score on. We drafted a center at #4 and we are debating whether he is even a serviceable backup. It was a disaster.

 

[Phrazbit]

What's the overstatement? The draft didn't set us back years? It was a bad draft 'class' that we didn't score on. We drafted a center at #4 and we are debating whether he is even a serviceable backup. It was a disaster.

The draft as a whole was terrible. What set us back years were the moves leading up to that summer.

I hated the Len pick when it happened but the alternatives around that slot have been no better... and in most cases, sadly worse.

 

[Hoop Head]

What's the overstatement? The draft didn't set us back years? It was a bad draft 'class' that we didn't score on. We drafted a center at #4 and we are debating whether he is even a serviceable backup. It was a disaster.

Exactly what Phrazbit said above. Picking Len didn't set us back, there were a lot of things that put the Suns in that position but really there weren't any better choices than Len at that time. I know Gobert, Steven Adams, and Giannis were taken after Len but they were all projects of sorts. Adams may not be as valuable if he weren't paired with Westbrook. Gobert has developed into a defensive powerhouse but part of that was being past by so many teams. He wears #27 because that's the number he was picked and he's used that to motivate him. So the coaching in Utah and being past over helped him develop. Giannis is a freak, a true anomaly. No one suspected he'd be this good and this quick but he has somehow, even without quality coaching consistently.

Prior to that draft the Suns invested in Michael Beasley to be "the guy" in Phoenix, which was an awful move that was a clear disaster. That's what got us that #5 pick to take Len. We also signed some other mediocre "talent" in hopes they would see the light in Phoenix and help us compete but that was a poor plan that failed miserably. Picking Len didn't help but it was actually better than the free agent moves the year or two before hand.

 

[Phrazbit]

Someone, can't remember who, was all about Adams before the draft... hats off to them. Trading back a few slots and taking him would have been brilliant.

 

[sdscard4]

Someone, can't remember who, was all about Adams before the draft... hats off to them. Trading back a few slots and taking him would have been brilliant.

Throwing a dart at the wall with names would have been the best bet. I still can't believe they actually thought Beasley was something. The Suns for the last 8 years have left me shaking my head so much. Its very frustrating

 

[pokerface]

Exactly what Phrazbit said above. Picking Len didn't set us back,

I kinda stopped reading after that...Our drafts is where we are getting our best talent. They mean EVERYTHING. Of course Len set us back. When you draft top 5 you expect something otherwise a year was killed for nothing ....and who knows when you can draft that high again. I mean some people on here are sweating bullets thinking we might slide to #4. Len DID set us back...because he turned into a nothing player we had more bad seasons. It's not strictly on him alone but anytime a high draft pick busts that is a major f'n deal...MAJOR DEAL!!!

 

[Hoop Head]

I kinda stopped reading after that...Our drafts is where we are getting our best talent. They mean EVERYTHING. Of course Len set us back. When you draft top 5 you expect something otherwise a year was killed for nothing ....and who knows when you can draft that high again. I mean some people on here are sweating bullets thinking we might slide to #4. Len DID set us back...because he turned into a nothing player we had more bad seasons. It's not strictly on him alone but anytime a high draft pick busts that is a major f'n deal...MAJOR DEAL!!!

But there were no great players on the board for the Suns around that area of the draft. If they did get an All-Star caliber big there that would have been the only one in the class. That draft class was awful, it was either hit a home run while virtually everyone else strikes out or strike out with everyone else. We struck out. No one gained much on us that year because hardly anyone added a good rookie. It's be a MAJOR DEAL if they past on someone who was within 5 slots of where they picked.

 

[pokerface]

But there were no great players on the board for the Suns around that area of the draft. If they did get an All-Star caliber big there that would have been the only one in the class. That draft class was awful, it was either hit a home run while virtually everyone else strikes out or strike out with everyone else. We struck out. No one gained much on us that year because hardly anyone added a good rookie. It's be a MAJOR DEAL if they past on someone who was within 5 slots of where they picked.

I know the draft class was bad....Im not even debating that. Bottomline is the draft is where we've been getting our best talent. If drafting doesn't pan out then we have a harder time attracting free agents. If drafting order doesn't mean much then why were you analizing odds and picks etc etc. I mean cripe dude....this isn't rocket science. Because Len crapped out that forced more tanks. If Len was better we wouldn't be lusting after Ayton as much. Len isn't even a role player...we got nothing.

 

[Phrazbit]

I kinda stopped reading after that...Our drafts is where we are getting our best talent. They mean EVERYTHING. Of course Len set us back. When you draft top 5 you expect something otherwise a year was killed for nothing ....and who knows when you can draft that high again. I mean some people on here are sweating bullets thinking we might slide to #4. Len DID set us back...because he turned into a nothing player we had more bad seasons. It's not strictly on him alone but anytime a high draft pick busts that is a major f'n deal...MAJOR DEAL!!!

You just spelled out, as you would call it, the "anti-tank" ideals very well. If you have a dog crap season and the lotto and the draft don't treat you as well as you hoped, you not only pointlessly had a terrible season, but the next few years are now likely to be trash too.

But... I do believe, when that draft happened our next few seasons were doomed already. The Blanks era was an unmitigated disaster and there was no rapid way to recover, especially with such a wretched draft class on the horizon.

 

[pokerface]

You just spelled out, as you would call it, the "anti-tank" ideals very well. If you have a dog crap season and the lotto and the draft don't treat you as well as you hoped, you not only pointlessly had a terrible season, but the next few years are now likely to be trash too.

But... I do believe, when that draft happened our next few seasons were doomed already. The Blanks era was an unmitigated disaster and there was no rapid way to recover, especially with such a wretched draft class on the horizon.

Yeah ok. I can see that. Everything plays a part obviously. A lousy gm will mess up a team as much or more than the draft. GMs and drafts go hand in hand. But I'm glad you get my point that a draft can have a domino affect...either for better or worse.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah ok. I can see that. Everything plays a part obviously. A lousy gm will mess up a team as much or more than the draft. GMs and drafts go hand in hand. But I'm glad you get my point that a draft can have a domino affect...either for better or worse.

Obviously, which is why the best teams in the NBA are built with guys they didn't tank to get. If a season is already in the crapper, like you're not in the race a mid season... go ahead and tank, but going into the season with the intention of tanking is setting yourself up for a high likelihood of a season being thrown away with no reward.

The top 4 records in the league, the Warriors, Celtics, Rockets and Raptors... those teams were built with ZERO top 5 picks earned through tanking. They were built by crafty trades and good drafting regardless of position.

I'm not "anti-tank" when your season is obviously going no where. But crap teams typically breed another crap team. The Sixers are not the rule, they are an exception to it. Most teams that suck and don't make a concerted effort to remove themselves other than "suck n prayo for that draft yayo" stay in suck mode for a looooooong time.

I hope we get Ayton, I am pretty sure landing him would change our franchise's fortunes in a dramatic way, anything beyond him... those guys, I like several of em, but I'm not sure about any of em... and it's only a 25% chance of Ayton. If we don't land that 25% chance... and we're forced to roll the dice on one of these guys who are a roll of the dice... then... yikes... once again we're set back years if the dice don't land in our favor.

Rolling back the argument to what REALLY set us back. We should have blown up the roster after 2010, as soon as they (wisely) decided that giving Amare a max extension was a bad idea. Once that conclusion was reached then it was obvious, the Nash Suns were not contending again, but they still had a lot of trade equity. Instead they limped along in mediocrity, wasted their trade capitol and ended up with McDonough (love him or hate him) taking over a franchise that had virtually zero trade value or young players to build around.

Back in the summer of 2010 they should have done what Ainge did with the Garnett/Pierce Celtics, what the Golden State did with the Bogut/Ellis team. Cash in your trade value, start over in one summer. We didn't and we're still paying now. THAT is what really screwed this team. The 2013 season was the culmination of the franchise pissing away assets until they had zero value. Len or no Len, we were doomed for the next few years already.

 

[pokerface]

Obviously, which is why the best teams in the NBA are built with guys they didn't tank to get. If a season is already in the crapper, like you're not in the race a mid season... go ahead and tank, but going into the season with the intention of tanking is setting yourself up for a high likelihood of a season being thrown away with no reward.

The top 4 records in the league, the Warriors, Celtics, Rockets and Raptors... those teams were built with ZERO top 5 picks earned through tanking. They were built by crafty trades and good drafting regardless of position.

I'm not "anti-tank" when your season is obviously going no where. But crap teams typically breed another crap team. The Sixers are not the rule, they are an exception to it. Most teams that suck and don't make a concerted effort to remove themselves other than "suck n prayo for that draft yayo" stay in suck mode for a looooooong time.

I hope we get Ayton, I am pretty sure landing him would change our franchise's fortunes in a dramatic way, anything beyond him... those guys, I like several of em, but I'm not sure about any of em... and it's only a 25% chance of Ayton. If we don't land that 25% chance... and we're forced to roll the dice on one of these guys who are a roll of the dice... then... yikes... once again we're set back years if the dice don't land in our favor.

Rolling back the argument to what REALLY set us back. We should have blown up the roster after 2010, as soon as they (wisely) decided that giving Amare a max extension was a bad idea. Once that conclusion was reached then it was obvious, the Nash Suns were not contending again, but they still had a lot of trade equity. Instead they limped along in mediocrity, wasted their trade capitol and ended up with McDonough (love him or hate him) taking over a franchise that had virtually zero trade value or young players to build around.

Back in the summer of 2010 they should have done what Ainge did with the Garnett/Pierce Celtics, what the Golden State did with the Bogut/Ellis team. Cash in your trade value, start over in one summer. We didn't and we're still paying now. THAT is what really screwed this team. The 2013 season was the culmination of the franchise pissing away assets until they had zero value. Len or no Len, we were doomed for the next few years already.

Then we continued on that trend by not dealing Bledsoe last year. Again, cashing out on the cheap like you've been saying. IT was another bad "sell" deal.

I think though we've accumulated some decent assets finally. Plus I don't think there will be any "Lens" in the top four this time around. If we don't get a star player we still should be able to score a solid starter...not a washup.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Then we continued on that trend by not dealing Bledsoe last year. Again, cashing out on the cheap like you've been saying. IT was another bad "sell" deal.

Maybe we did and maybe we didn't. Three major knee surgeries, Rich Paul representation, the unwillingness to play defense anymore and a high turnover rate aren't exactly desirable attributes come trading season.

 

[devilalum]

OKC gets swept in the first round, Paul George leaves and the Suns trade their entire draft + for Russel Westbrook.


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Lookin like OKC is goin down. And they are not going to get better next year. What would it take to get Westbrook?

There’s gotta be a formula that works.


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[devilalum]

If the Suns plan is to tank another year I’m not watchin that crap. I’ll become a hockey fan or join the Elks lodge.

I hardly watched the last 20 or so games this year. Sarver has to prove he can be successful now or he needs to sell the team and move on.


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[elindholm]

Lookin like OKC is goin down. And they are not going to get better next year. What would it take to get Westbrook?

There’s gotta be a formula that works.

Westbrook is my favorite player in the league, but I'm reluctantly moving into the camp that says that he can't be the best player on a contender. Anthony was a terrible acquisition, but George's inconsistency has been puzzling, and it has put more into Westbrook's lap, which ultimately he isn't up for.

Is there any way for a Westbrook-led Suns team to be better than what the Thunder had this year? Probably not.

 

[devilalum]

Westbrook is my favorite player in the league, but I'm reluctantly moving into the camp that says that he can't be the best player on a contender. Anthony was a terrible acquisition, but George's inconsistency has been puzzling, and it has put more into Westbrook's lap, which ultimately he isn't up for.

Is there any way for a Westbrook-led Suns team to be better than what the Thunder had this year? Probably not.

Great teams have great players.


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