Summer trades?

[Phrazbit]

If they made the trade because they didn't want IT on the roster anymore... fine.

But if they made the trade because they were ditching IT to appease Dragic, then as soon as Dragic went full on turd we should have backed out and were well within our rights to do so. IMO it is a freaking joke to think it would have ruined our reputation around the league. Trades that are seemingly in place fall through ALL THE TIME, I don't care on what level it was agreed upon, if it wasn't submitted to the league yet then the trade wasn't done.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All you do is distort the argument and then make an argument against your distortion.

Trades are made all the time while awaiting league office approval. What you seem to discard is that GMs need credibility to do their job.

I discard living in myopia.

Again, are you saying GS’ GM who backed out of the Amare Stef deal because circumstances changed and who’s built a dynasty doesn’t have credibility?

Colangelo who collided with players on under the table deals didn’t have credibility?

Please tell me what did I distort?

I’ve given you facts. You’ve just don’t like those facts so you ignore them and then go on to imply my worldview is somehow morally bankrupt. That a you problem, not me.

Good form as usual.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If they made the trade because they didn't want IT on the roster anymore... fine.

But if they made the trade because they were ditching IT to appease Dragic, then as soon as Dragic went full on turd we should have backed out and were well within our rights to do so. IMO it is a freaking joke to think it would have ruined our reputation around the league. Trades that are seemingly in place fall through ALL THE TIME, I don't care on what level it was agreed upon, if it wasn't submitted to the league yet then the trade wasn't done.

This x1000.

 

[Mainstreet]

If they made the trade because they didn't want IT on the roster anymore... fine.

But if they made the trade because they were ditching IT to appease Dragic, then as soon as Dragic went full on turd we should have backed out and were well within our rights to do so. IMO it is a freaking joke to think it would have ruined our reputation around the league. Trades that are seemingly in place fall through ALL THE TIME, I don't care on what level it was agreed upon, if it wasn't submitted to the league yet then the trade wasn't done.

A little off topic but it made me think of the Chris de Burgh song, "Don't pay the Ferryman."

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[Mainstreet]

I’ve given you facts. You’ve just don’t like those facts so you ignore them and then go on to imply my worldview is somehow morally bankrupt. That a you problem, not me.

This is a perfect example of your distortion.

Perhaps a class in reading comprehension would be helpful.

 

[Western Font]

Hey, now someone being up how McD allegedly played dirty in the Josh Jackson-Celtics workout situation and we can have the exact same argument in reverse!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hey, now someone being up how McD allegedly played dirty in the Josh Jackson-Celtics workout situation and we can have the exact same argument in reverse!

Great point. So, @Mainstreet, does doing the Celtics dirty in the lead up to the draft line up with the “respect McD” needs to show as a GM?

Personally, I see it as recognizing past mistakes and putting the Suns first (as he always should) if he really did go through with the I.T trade to play nice.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Great point. How does the above line up with the “respect McD” needs to show as a GM?

Personally, I see it as recognizing past mistakes if he really did go through with the I.T trade to play nice.

I think Ryan went through with the trade because he already had the framework of a deal set up to appease Dragic. But I have no doubt that had he really wanted to keep Thomas, he would have.

For me, the real problem isn't Ryan's deals it's Ryan's mouth. Every time I think he's learned how to survive in the real world he says something stupid again. And bragging about putting one over on Ainge was a really stupid thing to do IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Ryan went through with the trade because he already had the framework of a deal set up to appease Dragic. But I have no doubt that had he really wanted to keep Thomas, he would have.

For me, the real problem isn't Ryan's deals it's Ryan's mouth. Every time I think he's learned how to survive in the real world he says something stupid again. And bragging about putting one over on Ainge was a really stupid thing to do IMO.

His mouth is definitely a concern as well. Airing the stuff about doing Ainge dirty while continually airing dirty laundry about out going players only add to the lack of respect the rest of the league has for the team both with Front Offices and players.

 

[BC867]

His mouth is definitely a concern as well. Airing the stuff about doing Ainge dirty while continually airing dirty laundry about out going players only add to the lack of respect the rest of the league has for the team both with Front Offices and players.

I can understand why McDonough is desperate for recognition. I don't support his behavior, but I understand it.

1) He is learning on the job. From whom? Robert Sarver. 'Not the ideal mentor for an inexperienced and low paid NBA General Manager.

2) With Sarver acting as de facto General Manager, McDonough is literally Assistant GM. He is a go-fer and everybody knows it. It is why he was hired. Just as the next Head Coach will be.

It is a recipe for continued failure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

His mouth is definitely a concern as well. Airing the stuff about doing Ainge dirty while continually airing dirty laundry about out going players only add to the lack of respect the rest of the league has for the team both with Front Offices and players.

I know you had a problem with his Bledsoe comments but in that case, I didn't. In fact, I thought Ryan said all the right things then in a very tough situation. Eric still had 2 full years, no one shuts out all communication in that kind of situation. Then, he took the court and gave so little effort that something had to be said and done. Bledsoe's absurd excuse just compounded the situation and needed to be exposed for what it was.

I think Rich Paul really messed up with how he handled that situation. It obviously hurt us (on the court) but on the plus side, it hastened Watson's exit and hopefully helped bring us a future star in the upcoming draft.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I know you had a problem with his Bledsoe comments but in that case, I didn't. In fact, I thought Ryan said all the right things then in a very tough situation. Eric still had 2 full years, no one shuts out all communication in that kind of situation. Then, he took the court and gave so little effort that something had to be said and done. Bledsoe's absurd excuse just compounded the situation and needed to be exposed for what it was.

I think Rich Paul really messed up with how he handled that situation. It obviously hurt us (on the court) but on the plus side, it hastened Watson's exit and hopefully helped bring us a future star in the upcoming draft.

Didn't the Bledsoe and Watson exit happen on the same day? Anyway. Sometimes a GM has to say SOMETHING. McD tends to do that when the integrity of the team is under attack.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The best thing to do for your team is to develop good relationships with GMs from other organizations and build credibility around the league or the company, depending on the industry.

Is that what McD did when he bragged to the media how he did Ainge dirty in the draft last year with Jackson?

And I totally disagree with the above. You think Bill Belicheck gives a crap about anyone else in the league when his team consistently finds way to piss everyone off?

How about Pop who a) tanked an entire season to get Duncan b) played thug ball against us to beat us and c) played Hack-A-Shaq and d) pissed off the league and owners of opposing teams starting the trend of sitting star players on the road?

Those guys don’t have respect because they were nice guys who got along with everyone. They both operated under the rules of I.T’s us against EVERYONE and the rest of the league can suck our dust.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Is that what McD did when he bragged to the media how he did Ainge dirty in the draft last year with Jackson?

And I totally disagree with the above. You think Bill Belicheck gives a crap about anyone else in the league when his team consistently finds way to piss everyone off?

How about Pop who a) tanked an entire season to get Duncan b) played thug ball against us to beat us and c) played Hack-A-Shaq and d) pissed off the league and owners of opposing teams starting the trend of sitting star players on the road?

Those guys don’t have respect because they were nice guys who got along with everyone. They both operated under the rules of I.T’s us against EVERYONE and the rest of the league can suck our dust.

Cheese. Aren't you mischaracterizing the historical narrative.

McD was asked if the Suns had anything to do with Jackson cancelling his meeting with Ainge. This is what he said.

“I’d like to consult my attorney B.J. Armstrong (Jackson’s agent)." And then smiled.

Then he said nothing else. He made no efforts to confirm or deny. Is that your definition of bragging about it?

 

[elindholm]

“I’d like to consult my attorney B.J. Armstrong (Jackson’s agent)." And then smiled.

Then he said nothing else. He made no efforts to confirm or deny. Is that your definition of bragging about it?

You didn't ask me, but I'd call that bragging. Smug "I have a secret" smiles are for high school.

In any case, it's stupid. He's trying to position himself in the same league as Auerbach snagging Bird or West manipulating the system to get Bryant. It's absurd on its face. If McDonough somehow ends up compiling multiple decades of success, maybe then he can be a smart-ass, but for now he just looks like a delusional twit.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Cheese. Aren't you mischaracterizing the historical narrative.

McD was asked if the Suns had anything to do with Jackson cancelling his meeting with Ainge. This is what he said.

“I’d like to consult my attorney B.J. Armstrong (Jackson’s agent)." And then smiled.

Then he said nothing else. He made no efforts to confirm or deny. Is that your definition of bragging about it?

I think he was trying to be playful with Danny through the media but it definitely came across as smug and boastful (to me).

 

[Cheesebeef]

You didn't ask me, but I'd call that bragging. Smug "I have a secret" smiles are for high school.

In any case, it's stupid. He's trying to position himself in the same league as Auerbach snagging Bird or West manipulating the system to get Bryant. It's absurd on its face. If McDonough somehow ends up compiling multiple decades of success, maybe then he can be smart-ass, but for now he just looks like a delusional twit.

@JCSunsfan this sums up my feelings.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Didn't the Bledsoe and Watson exit happen on the same day? Anyway. Sometimes a GM has to say SOMETHING. McD tends to do that when the integrity of the team is under attack.

Watson was fired, then Bledsoe's "I don't want to be here" comment followed which then led to the trade. But IMO Eric was going to be shipped before the deadline no matter what. He closed all lines of communication with the franchise (including players too IIRC) until he had to show up for preseason. Then, he sabotaged the team with his play.

 

[SirStefan32]

Is that what McD did when he bragged to the media how he did Ainge dirty in the draft last year with Jackson?

And I totally disagree with the above. You think Bill Belicheck gives a crap about anyone else in the league when his team consistently finds way to piss everyone off?

How about Pop who a) tanked an entire season to get Duncan b) played thug ball against us to beat us and c) played Hack-A-Shaq and d) pissed off the league and owners of opposing teams starting the trend of sitting star players on the road?

Those guys don’t have respect because they were nice guys who got along with everyone. They both operated under the rules of I.T’s us against EVERYONE and the rest of the league can suck our dust.

The difference is that Popovich is a proven winner. When you are good, you can be a little bit of a jerk. Not so much when you are the new kid on the block. As for McD and Ainge... McD should not have done that (Eric made an excellent post outlining the reasons why now), but there might be a bit of a big brother/ little brother thing going on with those two. My first boss at work and I (all these years later) still poke fun at each other and mess with each other. Someone else, with no benefit of the context may mistake that was more than it is. We mess with each other because we get along, we respect each other, and have a great working relationship. I suspect that may be the case with Ainge and McD as well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

@JCSunsfan this sums up my feelings.

Fair enough. There is however, a difference between this and backing out of a trade. I remember at the time (the Steph Curry trade with GS) based upon the Suns reaction, that they knew there was a misunderstanding about the deal with Golden State. Suns mgmt took that situation too easily for it to be a total back out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The difference is that Popovich is a proven winner. When you are good, you can be a little bit of a jerk. Not so much when you are the new kid on the block. As for McD and Ainge... McD should not have done that (Eric made an excellent post outlining the reasons why now), but there might be a bit of a big brother/ little brother thing going on with those two. My first boss at work and I (all these years later) still poke fun at each other and mess with each other. Someone else, with no benefit of the context may mistake that was more than it is. We mess with each other because we get along, we respect each other, and have a great working relationship. I suspect that may be the case with Ainge and McD as well.

But Pop wasn’t a proven winner when he tanked a season as GM to get Duncan, then fired his head coach during that season and then installed himself as coach.

And if you follow football, Bellichek wasn’t even close to a proven winner when he a) backed out of an actual contract with the Giants and forced his way to NE where he immediately started doing whatever it took to win with spy gate during his first Super Bowl run.

Those guys from the get go didn’t care a lick about anything but what would make me and my team successful.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Kawhi really pushes his way out of San Antonio, and the Clippers are able to make a decent pitch for him, I'd like the Suns to try and get involved to get Patrick Beverly. I'm not sure what it would cost, maybe the Bucks pick or the Miami pick? But he would be a good PG if we strike out in the draft. He's a good defender and could hold down the position for another year or two while the Suns shop for their PG of the future. Just an idea, I'll believe it when I see it when Kawhi is traded. Part of me thinks they'll patch things up and another part of me thinks they'll get a deal done very quickly, before the media can throw out hundreds of proposals. It'll be like the OKC/Indy deal last summer, done before it leaks, and is potentially squashed.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

If Kawhi really pushes his way out of San Antonio, and the Clippers are able to make a decent pitch for him, I'd like the Suns to try and get involved to get Patrick Beverly. I'm not sure what it would cost, maybe the Bucks pick or the Miami pick? But he would be a good PG if we strike out in the draft. He's a good defender and could hold down the position for another year or two while the Suns shop for their PG of the future. Just an idea, I'll believe it when I see it when Kawhi is traded. Part of me thinks they'll patch things up and another part of me thinks they'll get a deal done very quickly, before the media can throw out hundreds of proposals. It'll be like the OKC/Indy deal last summer, done before it leaks, and is potentially squashed.

I can tell you Beverley is beloved in the franchise. He is the culture there. Not to mention, he makes didly. He wont be going anywhere unless its in a blockbuster (Kawhi, like you say), because his salary is so small you have to aggregate with someone else to get anywhere.

The Clippers nearly made the playoffs with Gallo missing half the year, Beverley missing 3/4 of the season, and Bradley out for a month after acquiring him. Dont see them selling him for a mid round pick (they already own 12 and 13 right now) to send for Kawhi, when they have two better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Kawhi really pushes his way out of San Antonio, and the Clippers are able to make a decent pitch for him, I'd like the Suns to try and get involved to get Patrick Beverly.

I want no part of Beverley at least not until it's proven that his knees are sound. And at 30 years old with meniscus and microfracture surgery on his resume, he's likely to begin an early decline IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

I can tell you Beverley is beloved in the franchise. He is the culture there. Not to mention, he makes didly. He wont be going anywhere unless its in a blockbuster (Kawhi, like you say), because his salary is so small you have to aggregate with someone else to get anywhere.

The Clippers nearly made the playoffs with Gallo missing half the year, Beverley missing 3/4 of the season, and Bradley out for a month after acquiring him. Dont see them selling him for a mid round pick (they already own 12 and 13 right now) to send for Kawhi, when they have two better.

I thought he was a RFA, you're right though. Rozier does have 1 year left on his deal. Perhaps Boston would be open to a trade? Smart is a RFA and they can't afford Kyrie and Smart and Rozier.