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Mitch

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1. I was particularly disturbed to read all of the Rod Graves bashing that's going on at the AZ Republic website. Fans are still blasting Graves for the infamous trade down in the 2003 Draft that netted the Cards WR Bryant Johnson and DE Calvin Pace. The irony is that many fans don't give Graves nearly enough credit for drafting WR Anquan Boldin in the second round of that draft. Not fair, in my opinion.

Had Boldin and Johnson been flip-flopped...in other words...had Graves taken Boldin in the first round on that trade down...he would have been roasted at the time because Boldin was not projected as a mid-range first rounder...but then Graves would have looked like a genius as soon as Boldin's record-breaking receiving debut at Detroit.

The fact is: Rod Graves drafted one of the top three players in the 2003 Draft, without a top three pick.

I still like the boldness of the move. Yes, Philly traded up right in front of the Cardinals to steal DE Jerome McDougle of Miami--and Graves' plan was foiled--he needed a DE, so he reached for Pace--although there were strong indications that the Chiefs were poised to take Pace just a few slots later. (BTW--McDougle has been a bust thus far in Philly due to injuries and a gunshot wound)

I like Rod Graves. I like him a lot. He's a humble, blue collar guy who brings a team approach to personnel decisions. I think he has been unfairly criticized. He has brought class and strong communication skills to the organization. And, under his watch, the Cardinals have completely changed as an organization in terms of how flexible they are in getting contracts negotiated and signed.

I hope that Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace turn in career seasons this year...with stronger coaching, I think that's quite possible...which would be a fitting vindication for Graves' trade down. let's hope both players come into their own this year.

2. Yes, Graves will make the final decisions this year in the draft...but, let's be real...Whiz has already informed the scouts exactly what he wants in personnel. This has allowed Graves and the scouts, with Whiz's input, to structure the Cards' board accordingly. Like I said previously, Graves' decisions will come as a result of discussions with Whiz and the scouts. In other words, the decision will be team decisions.

3. The key to any draft is how well the coaches can develop the arriving young talent. IMO, the previous Cardinal coaching staffs have not done a very good job developing the young talent. With Whiz, his strong staff and John Lott's training program in place this is likely to change.

4. If the Cards indeed have Levi Brown rated ahead of Joe Thomas, it would be great if the Cards could move down to #8, pick up an extra third and perhaps a sixth (to compensate for the lost 6th rounder)...

If such a thing were to happen...I could see the Cardinals' draft going like this:

1. Levi Brown, T, Penn. St. Cards like his run blocking prowess and his physical style of play.

2. David Harris, LB, Michigan. Strong at point of attack. Would be paired with gerald Hayes at the two ILB spots in the 3-4...and could play SLB in the 4-3, which would enable the Cards to play Karlos Dansby at WOLB.

3a. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia. Pass rusher who has the ability to play 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB.

3b. Matt Spaeth, TE, Minnesota. The Cards can't gamble that Spaeth will be available at #105 (4th). He's just the run blocking TE the Cards need.

4. Chansi Stuckey, WR/PR, Clemson. Cards get one of the premier returners in the draft...and a slot WR for 4 WR sets.

5. Chase Johnson, G/T, Wyoming. Massive player who Russ Grimm thinks can be a steal.

6. Jonny Harline, TE, BYU. Nifty pass catcher and chain mover. Great hands. Fills out young and talented TE trio with Pope and Spaeth.

7. Jeremy Burnett, S, South Florida. Big hitter, a bit undisciplined, but would contribute immediately on special teams.
 
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40yearfan

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Thanks Mitch. It's nice to hear something positive on this board ocassionally about Graves and the Cardinals. The doom and gloomers have already written the year off.
 

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I like the draft, but I would switch Stuckey with Yamon Figurs and Chase Johnson with Jake Bender. Look him up, the man is a beast (and a good friend of mine).

Also, am I wrong for expecting Pace to finally breakout? If I remember correctly, he was projected to be a very good OLB in the 3-4 when he came out.
 

Goldfield

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I do think Pace could be alittle better in a 3-4. He is also in a contract year so I would expect to see his best effort.
 

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I think Pace hit the 1st round in the draft due to his play on a 3-4 team.
Mitch-Why,even with extra picks you have forgotten our boy from the other Cardinals?He wants to play for us and was depending on you to keep his name out there.
 

Pariah

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Had Boldin and Johnson been flip-flopped...in other words...had Graves taken Boldin in the first round on that trade down...he would have been roasted at the time because Boldin was not projected as a mid-range first rounder...but then Graves would have looked like a genius as soon as Boldin's record-breaking receiving debut at Detroit.
If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas.
 

lobo

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7. Jeremy Burnett, S, South Florida. Big hitter, a bit undisciplined, but would contribute immediately on special teams.[/quote]


Strong picks overall. Your point of view on Graves is a non-emotional sensible piece. I do not believe that the "power" of essentially the last word will go to his head. Those naysayers who think we will do something stupid, might want to take a second look at their position. I can see dropping as low as 9 for Brown, but not to 10. Even at 9 if Miami gets Green, which they will, there is a risk Brown will be gone so 8 might be the answer if they are willing to deal with us.
I hope we are not a voice in the wilderness on Spaeth. I believe he is as important a pick, aside from OT that we can make. He only adds to building a big running game. With all the talk I still see Raiders taking Russel, Detroit should take Quinn, but they will succumb and take Johnson, Cleveland will take Peterson, Tampa could screew us up but will take Adams and we get Thomas.

Something worth noting. No one mentions the kid from New Mexico, LB who had a tremendous number of tackles, fastest 40 time for LB and one of the top verticals. I forgot his name he ain't Urlacher but his pedigree is awfully good. Take a look
 

Garthshort

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Mitch's Mock

Mitch, RG has said that he wants to come out of the Draft with two DL. If we only get a very questionable DE (Moses), I don't think he could say we had a successful draft. But you are absolutely correct, IMO, in your assessment of RG. But as the Republic article points out DG had a big say in the past three drafts, so this year is very important for RG. I would think that Steve Kiem will influence RG's picks more than anyone else.
 

Stout

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Mitch, you're overlooking a few things in regards to Graves in the 2003 draft. The trade was horrendous because we gave up a 4th round pick AND moved back in the 2nd. We were lucky Boldin fell to us. A lot of folks give Graves little credit for picking Boldin because it was one scout (name escapes me) lobbying for him that reportedly caused us to draft him. I give Graves kudos for actually listening to the scout and then picking Boldin, but that's all as far as giving him credit for it.

Fact is, Graves presided over a major fiasco that year in the draft, and we're lucky we came out of it with Boldin and Wells.
 

ajcardfan

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Mitch, you're overlooking a few things in regards to Graves in the 2003 draft. The trade was horrendous because we gave up a 4th round pick AND moved back in the 2nd. We were lucky Boldin fell to us. A lot of folks give Graves little credit for picking Boldin because it was one scout (name escapes me) lobbying for him that reportedly caused us to draft him. I give Graves kudos for actually listening to the scout and then picking Boldin, but that's all as far as giving him credit for it.

Fact is, Graves presided over a major fiasco that year in the draft, and we're lucky we came out of it with Boldin and Wells.


It was actually our WR coach at the time, Tyke Tolbert, who lobbied so hard for Boldin. Not even our resident scouting genius, Keim, can lay claim to the Boldin pick.
 

Brewster10

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Mitch I love your insight and love reading your stuff... But u are giving me a headache with your gazillion different trade scenarios and mock drafts...

Relax a little and lets wait til Saturday...
 

Crazy Canuck

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Mitch, you're overlooking a few things in regards to Graves in the 2003 draft. The trade was horrendous because we gave up a 4th round pick AND moved back in the 2nd. We were lucky Boldin fell to us. A lot of folks give Graves little credit for picking Boldin because it was one scout (name escapes me) lobbying for him that reportedly caused us to draft him. I give Graves kudos for actually listening to the scout and then picking Boldin, but that's all as far as giving him credit for it.

Fact is, Graves presided over a major fiasco that year in the draft, and we're lucky we came out of it with Boldin and Wells.

The logic for giving up the 4th rounder, whether you approve or not (and I'm sure you don't) was to have 4 picks on the first day.
 

BigDavis75

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Something worth noting. No one mentions the kid from New Mexico, LB who had a tremendous number of tackles, fastest 40 time for LB and one of the top verticals. I forgot his name he ain't Urlacher but his pedigree is awfully good. Take a look

Quincy Black. He pretty much carried that NM team singlehandedly, didn't they make a bowl game last year? Another late-round OLB prospect I really like is Dallas Sartz.
 

lobo

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Quincy Black. He pretty much carried that NM team singlehandedly, didn't they make a bowl game last year? Another late-round OLB prospect I really like is Dallas Sartz.

Thanks so much. Of course that is his name. These are the gems one has to dig out. Patrick Willis...big deal eveyone knows him!!
 

Cbus cardsfan

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1. I was particularly disturbed to read all of the Rod Graves bashing that's going on at the AZ Republic website. Fans are still blasting Graves for the infamous trade down in the 2003 Draft that netted the Cards WR Bryant Johnson and DE Calvin Pace. The irony is that many fans don't give Graves nearly enough credit for drafting WR Anquan Boldin in the second round of that draft. Not fair, in my opinion.

Had Boldin and Johnson been flip-flopped...in other words...had Graves taken Boldin in the first round on that trade down...he would have been roasted at the time because Boldin was not projected as a mid-range first rounder...but then Graves would have looked like a genius as soon as Boldin's record-breaking receiving debut at Detroit.

The fact is: Rod Graves drafted one of the top three players in the 2003 Draft, without a top three pick.

I still like the boldness of the move. Yes, Philly traded up right in front of the Cardinals to steal DE Jerome McDougle of Miami--and Graves' plan was foiled--he needed a DE, so he reached for Pace--although there were strong indications that the Chiefs were poised to take Pace just a few slots later. (BTW--McDougle has been a bust thus far in Philly due to injuries and a gunshot wound)

I like Rod Graves. I like him a lot. He's a humble, blue collar guy who brings a team approach to personnel decisions. I think he has been unfairly criticized. He has brought class and strong communication skills to the organization. And, under his watch, the Cardinals have completely changed as an organization in terms of how flexible they are in getting contracts negotiated and signed.

I hope that Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace turn in career seasons this year...with stronger coaching, I think that's quite possible...which would be a fitting vindication for Graves' trade down. let's hope both players come into their own this year.

2. Yes, Graves will make the final decisions this year in the draft...but, let's be real...Whiz has already informed the scouts exactly what he wants in personnel. This has allowed Graves and the scouts, with Whiz's input, to structure the Cards' board accordingly. Like I said previously, Graves' decisions will come as a result of discussions with Whiz and the scouts. In other words, the decision will be team decisions.

3. The key to any draft is how well the coaches can develop the arriving young talent. IMO, the previous Cardinal coaching staffs have not done a very good job developing the young talent. With Whiz, his strong staff and John Lott's training program in place this is likely to change.

4. If the Cards indeed have Levi Brown rated ahead of Joe Thomas, it would be great if the Cards could move down to #8, pick up an extra third and perhaps a sixth (to compensate for the lost 6th rounder)...

If such a thing were to happen...I could see the Cardinals' draft going like this:

1. Levi Brown, T, Penn. St. Cards like his run blocking prowess and his physical style of play.

2. David Harris, LB, Michigan. Strong at point of attack. Would be paired with gerald Hayes at the two ILB spots in the 3-4...and could play SLB in the 4-3, which would enable the Cards to play Karlos Dansby at WOLB.

3a. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia. Pass rusher who has the ability to play 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB.

3b. Matt Spaeth, TE, Minnesota. The Cards can't gamble that Spaeth will be available at #105 (4th). He's just the run blocking TE the Cards need.

4. Chansi Stuckey, WR/PR, Clemson. Cards get one of the premier returners in the draft...and a slot WR for 4 WR sets.

5. Chase Johnson, G/T, Wyoming. Massive player who Russ Grimm thinks can be a steal.

6. Jonny Harline, TE, BYU. Nifty pass catcher and chain mover. Great hands. Fills out young and talented TE trio with Pope and Spaeth.

7. Jeremy Burnett, S, South Florida. Big hitter, a bit undisciplined, but would contribute immediately on special teams.

I like the first 4 picks.Well, i don't like Brown alot but i think we are going to trade down and take him.BUt rounds 2 and 3 i really like. For the 4th round i would like to see us look at one of 2 DT prospect in Polaia, from Utah, or the big kid from the small college(Walter Thomas??). That would be a very productive first 4 rounds.
 

Goldfield

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It was actually our WR coach at the time, Tyke Tolbert, who lobbied so hard for Boldin. Not even our resident scouting genius, Keim, can lay claim to the Boldin pick.
Actually, the guy who begged for us to draft Boldin was our WR coach Jerry Sullivan...

The same guy the Cards tried to hire back from the 49er's but the 49er's added to his job title so we couldn't steal him. I believe his contract is up after this season and I bet he comes back to AZ.
 

WildBB

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2. David Harris, LB, Michigan. Strong at point of attack. Would be paired with gerald Hayes at the two ILB spots in the 3-4...and could play SLB in the 4-3, which would enable the Cards to play Karlos Dansby at WOLB.

3a. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia. Pass rusher who has the ability to play 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB.

Yes, yes, yes! If these guys are available I'd do backflips. Especially if Blaylock is gone.

Harris would be golden! We would be ALOT better against the run! The kid can play. :thumbup:

Both Alama-Francis and Moses would be great p/u's in that slot as well!

I am confident in Graves and Co. abilities and optomistic on our prospects.
 
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WildBB

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2. Yes, Graves will make the final decisions this year in the draft...but, let's be real...Whiz has already informed the scouts exactly what he wants in personnel. This has allowed Graves and the scouts, with Whiz's input, to structure the Cards' board accordingly. Like I said previously, Graves' decisions will come as a result of discussions with Whiz and the scouts. In other words, the decision will be team decisions.

3. The key to any draft is how well the coaches can develop the arriving young talent. IMO, the previous Cardinal coaching staffs have not done a very good job developing the young talent. With Whiz, his strong staff and John Lott's training program in place this is likely to change.


These are two big points in this off-season. Before it seemed like they pretty much just gave D. Green free reign in the drafts with mixed results). Now it'll be more of a consensus than ever before of what fits the system. Before they just went on grades and need to a large degree.

And yes how refreshing will it be that a staff can actually utilize the talent given to them to a more complete extent, so that they'll be developed properly! :)
 

LVCARDFREAK

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I think Pace hit the 1st round in the draft due to his play on a 3-4 team.
Mitch-Why,even with extra picks you have forgotten our boy from the other Cardinals?He wants to play for us and was depending on you to keep his name out there.

He didnt play ina 3-4 at WF. They played, and still do play, a hybrid 3-3-5. Pace played DE in that defense and never stood up or played olb
 

AsUdUdE

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its going to take more than a third rounder to move up three spots in the top 10. A more likely scernio is #9 with 'miami and their 2nd rounder for the #5 pick.....
 

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LVCARD I knew it was something other than a 4-3 but did not know what.
BEERZ-- I am sure aj is correct it was Tolbert.
 

ajcardfan

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It was actually our WR coach at the time, Tyke Tolbert, who lobbied so hard for Boldin. Not even our resident scouting genius, Keim, can lay claim to the Boldin pick.

as noted, it was Tolbert--

and Keim was running the southeast US, which included FSU, so he was the guy who was scouting Boldin
 

ajcardfan

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as noted, it was Tolbert--

and Keim was running the southeast US, which included FSU, so he was the guy who was scouting Boldin

Yep, it was his scouting report that Tolbert was telling them to ignore.
 
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