Suns 2019 GM/Front Office Search

[SirStefan32]

I look at the Bowers hire as basically two things. He lightens the GM load for James Jones and he upgrades the Suns public image.

Personally I was content to go forward with James Jones after the moves he made last season (Crawford, Oubre and Johnson) but he needed someone in the front office to help with other aspects of the job. I'm hopeful Crawford will be better than McDonough in evaluating talent and player relations.

Not only that, but he is likely also there to teach and mentor Jones. With any job, there are certain intricacies that you can't learn from a book or documentation. You need to actually go through certain situations to learn how to handle them, and it is helpful when you have someone who's been through those situations many times before.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not only that, but he is likely also there to teach and mentor Jones. With any job, there are certain intricacies that you can't learn from a book or documentation. You need to actually go through certain situations to learn how to handle them, and it is helpful when you have someone who's been through those situations many times before.

This is definitely a third reason for adding Bowers to the Suns payroll. Jones will need to grow as a General Manager.

 

[Krangodnzr]

kinda got the same feeling. i mean... how weak of a candidate or job market was there for a two time GM to have to take a subordinate position to Jones, who has no business whatsoever being the GM of any team that actually cares about winning.

What has Jones done that was so terrible?

IMO his time as GM has largely been positive.

 

[1Sun]

This is definitely a third reason for adding Bowers to the Suns payroll. Jones will need to grow as a General Manager.

Just what we need...another unqualified person trying to learn on the job.

Whatever happened to hiring people who are actually qualified for the job in the first place?

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, it's nice to look on the bright side
bringing someone in with experience to help in any capacity is helpful
but, once again, a half-a$$ed move for a team spiraling in the wrong direction for years

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What has Jones done that was so terrible?

IMO his time as GM has largely been positive.

I’d say it’s relatively neutral. I see his season as follows:

-He wasn’t dealt a great hand with roster
-He likely had a hand in the roster construction
- Inherited a rookie coach
- He likely was involved in the Igor hire
- Nice, but minimally oncourt impactful, signing of Crawford
- Good low level acquisition of Johnson - but truth be told he did the Heat a favor helping them strip that contract
- Good acquisition of Oubre
-Luck played a MAJOR role of acquiring oubre
- Was part of the egg on the face debacle that was the failed three team trade
- Released players with some value without seemingly exploring trade market in Chandler, the guy from Heat and Austin Rivers
- Never really filled either the PG or PF holes in the roster despite having some assets to move
- Still finished with second worst record this season under his stewardship
- Basically said he didn’t want to put in the time that other GMs do

 

[Chaplin]

I’d say it’s relatively neutral. I see his season as follows:

-He wasn’t dealt a great hand with roster
-He likely had a hand in the roster construction
- Inherited a rookie coach
- He likely was involved in the Igor hire
- Nice, but minimally oncourt impactful, signing of Crawford
- Good low level acquisition of Johnson - but truth be told he did the Heat a favor helping them strip that contract
- Good acquisition of Oubre
-Luck played a MAJOR role of acquiring oubre
- Was part of the egg on the face debacle that was the failed three team trade
- Released players with some value without seemingly exploring trade market in Chandler, the guy from Heat and Austin Rivers
- Never really filled either the PG or PF holes in the roster despite having some assets to move
- Still finished with second worst record this season under his stewardship
- Basically said he didn’t want to put in the time that other GMs do

The "egg on his face" debacle that the Oubre trade was is pure speculation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The "egg on his face" debacle that the Oubre trade was is pure speculation.

Right. That went down smoothly and 100% according to plan. Oooookay chap.

 

[1Sun]

I’d say it’s relatively neutral. I see his season as follows:

-He wasn’t dealt a great hand with roster
-He likely had a hand in the roster construction
- Inherited a rookie coach
- He likely was involved in the Igor hire
- Nice, but minimally oncourt impactful, signing of Crawford
- Good low level acquisition of Johnson - but truth be told he did the Heat a favor helping them strip that contract
- Good acquisition of Oubre
-Luck played a MAJOR role of acquiring oubre
- Was part of the egg on the face debacle that was the failed three team trade
- Released players with some value without seemingly exploring trade market in Chandler, the guy from Heat and Austin Rivers
- Never really filled either the PG or PF holes in the roster despite having some assets to move
- Still finished with second worst record this season under his stewardship
- Basically said he didn’t want to put in the time that other GMs do

This is entirely objective and accurate. In balance, with all of the positives and negatives here in mind, it is clear to me Jones does not deserve the GM position, especially over Bower, or really anyone with both the capability and desire to fill the role.

 

[1Sun]

The "egg on his face" debacle that the Oubre trade was is pure speculation.

You must have wiped that Friday evening completely from your memory...

 

[Chaplin]

Right. That went down smoothly and 100% according to plan. Oooookay chap.

Hmm. Is that what I said? Jesus, you're better than that Ouchie. You have NO idea how that trade went down. Sure it could have been a debacle. But it also could have been us taking advantage of a situation that was created by two other inept teams.

 

[1Sun]

Hmm. Is that what I said? Jesus, you're better than that Ouchie. You have NO idea how that trade went down. Sure it could have been a debacle. But it also could have been us taking advantage of a situation that was created by two other inept teams.

All three teams were entirely inept on this one. Sadly, the Suns are the only one of the three teams that did not fire the executive responsible for that ineptitude. Instead, the Suns promoted him...

 

[Cheesebeef]

My guess is that Jones is the Suns' de facto President of Basketball Operations just like McD was once Babby left.

I’d say it’s relatively neutral. I see his season as follows:

-He wasn’t dealt a great hand with roster
-He likely had a hand in the roster construction
- Inherited a rookie coach
- He likely was involved in the Igor hire
- Nice, but minimally oncourt impactful, signing of Crawford
- Good low level acquisition of Johnson - but truth be told he did the Heat a favor helping them strip that contract
- Good acquisition of Oubre
-Luck played a MAJOR role of acquiring oubre
- Was part of the egg on the face debacle that was the failed three team trade
- Released players with some value without seemingly exploring trade market in Chandler, the guy from Heat and Austin Rivers
- Never really filled either the PG or PF holes in the roster despite having some assets to move
- Still finished with second worst record this season under his stewardship
- Basically said he didn’t want to put in the time that other GMs do

this is the only thing that REALLY matters and it's embarrassing to reward a guy... with no experience... who doesn't want or feel the need to work as hard as other GMs do. The idea that you come into a job with an attitude like that... thinking that somehow he knows better than the guys before him like Jerry West, RC Buford, Sam Presti and Glen Morey, who are/were known for their drive and slave-like hours dedicated to success is flipping ridiculous.

 

[Chaplin]

this is the only thing that REALLY matters and it's embarrassing to reward a guy... with no experience... who doesn't want or feel the need to work as hard as other GMs do. The idea that you come into a job with an attitude like that... thinking that somehow he knows better than the guys before him like Jerry West, RC Buford, Sam Presti and Glen Morey, who are/were known for their drive and slave-like hours dedicated to success is flipping ridiculous.

When did he "basically" say that? That's a pretty major accusation. I don't remember ever hearing that.

 

[1Sun]

When did he "basically" say that? That's a pretty major accusation. I don't remember ever hearing that.

It's actually been pretty well publicized and was discussed in detail in that espn.com cover story.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn...messy-dysfunctional-front-office?platform=amp

 

[Mainstreet]

Without looking it up, I think James Jones said something to the effect he did not feel it was necessary to be on the laptop all day to be a GM.

I think analytics only tells part of the story.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hmm. Is that what I said? Jesus, you're better than that Ouchie. You have NO idea how that trade went down. Sure it could have been a debacle. But it also could have been us taking advantage of a situation that was created by two other inept teams.

Here are the known facts:

Three teams involved with the deal. The deal was a debacle. The suns have been the worst managed of the three in their most recent history. The suns were the only club with an interim GM who two years ago was playing.

Each of us have to make up our minds based on these facts as to what we think went down. You seem to support the premise that surely the the guy with little front office experience and Sarver weren’t the issue. I support the opposite premise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Without looking it up, I think James Jones said something to the effect he did not feel it was necessary to be on the laptop all day to be a GM.

I think analytics only tells part of the story.

He said something along those exact lines. That he didn’t believe a GM had to work themselves as hard as most do. I’m shocked you don’t recall that comment because it was the single most alarming comment he made to me.

 

[JerkFace]

Here are the known facts:

Three teams involved with the deal. The deal was a debacle. The suns have been the worst managed of the three in their most recent history. The suns were the only club with an interim GM who two years ago was playing.

Each of us have to make up our minds based on these facts as to what we think went down. You seem to support the premise that surely the the guy with little front office experience and Sarver weren’t the issue. I support the opposite premise.

Except for the fact that both Washington And Phoenix both corroborated each other’s side of the process and both pointed the finger at Memphis as the one that dropped the ball.

 

[Mainstreet]

He said something along those exact lines. That he didn’t believe a GM had to work themselves as hard as most do. I’m shocked you don’t recall that comment because it was the single most alarming comment he made to me.

I thought I was very close in my recollection.

However, here is the exact quote:


"There's a perception of what a GM is and what a GM does, that you have to log the hours and open up the laptop. I've never purported to be that guy."

Suns GM James Jones


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26088024/inside-phoenix-suns-messy-dysfunctional-front-office

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I thought I was very close in my recollection.

However, here is the exact quote:


"There's a perception of what a GM is and what a GM does, that you have to log the hours and open up the laptop. I've never purported to be that guy."

Suns GM James Jones


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26088024/inside-phoenix-suns-messy-dysfunctional-front-office

Thank you. I think that’s a worrisome comment from a guy who doesn’t yet know a lot about the position’s requirements. Particularly at the time it was uttered.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Except for the fact that both Washington And Phoenix both corroborated each other’s side of the process and both pointed the finger at Memphis as the one that dropped the ball.

Eh there was a ton of chatter but I don’t recall anything solid of that sort.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’d say it’s relatively neutral. I see his season as follows:

-He wasn’t dealt a great hand with roster

No he wasn't.

-He likely had a hand in the roster construction

Likely? How likely? McD was in charge before him and supposedly Sarver would direct a lot of moves.

- Inherited a rookie coach
- He likely was involved in the Igor hire

Maybe. Maybe not. Hard to tell with a meddling owner around.

- Nice, but minimally oncourt impactful, signing of Crawford

Agreed, but from all sources, Crawford has been huge for the young guys and he is a great role model. More plus than minus.

- Good low level acquisition of Johnson - but truth be told he did the Heat a favor helping them strip that contract

And it adds an expiring to trade this coming season....meaning the Suns have the option to move Johnson in a package for a star if one is available. Free agency is a pipedream for the Suns right now, so this move might be a huge one when trying to match salaries.

- Good acquisition of Oubre
-Luck played a MAJOR role of acquiring oubre
- Was part of the egg on the face debacle that was the failed three team trade

Who knows? Reportedly. Oubre worked out and Ariza sucked.

Luck? Dumping a useless OLD vet for a young player with upside who plays an all around game isn't luck, it's smart roster management.

- Released players with some value without seemingly exploring trade market in Chandler, the guy from Heat and Austin Rivers

That's a stretch. I disagree I don't think the Suns would've gotten poo for Chandler.

- Never really filled either the PG or PF holes in the roster despite having some assets to move

That's assuming there was a good trade. Without knowing what was available, you can't really judge this part. It's pure speculation.

- Still finished with second worst record this season under his stewardship

I blame Sarver more for this than anything, if his meddling is true.

- Basically said he didn’t want to put in the time that other GMs do

I think the context is that he didn't have to kill himself to get the job done.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here are the known facts:

Three teams involved with the deal. The deal was a debacle. The suns have been the worst managed of the three in their most recent history. The suns were the only club with an interim GM who two years ago was playing.

Each of us have to make up our minds based on these facts as to what we think went down. You seem to support the premise that surely the the guy with little front office experience and Sarver weren’t the issue. I support the opposite premise.

And with how Memphis has handled things this offseason I think they are on par with the Suns as far as being a horribly ran franchise. Any doubt of that was thrown out with how they fired Bickerstaff. Unlike James Jones and being a player 2 years ago their GM was writing for ESPN, John Hollinger, and I'd rather have a player than an ESPN analyst running my team if I was the one hiring someone.

The only reason we know that deal was a debacle is because Woj tried scooping everyone and reporting it before it could even happen. If Woj didn't do that then who knows what fans actually learn of how it played out. The bottom line is we ended up with the best player of the deal so I'll give Jones some credit for that. The other 2 GM's that worked on it are no longer in their positions with Hollinger being moved to an "advisor" position and Washington's GM being fired. So I don't think Jones looks the worst from that situation.

 

[Hoop Head]

- Good low level acquisition of Johnson - but truth be told he did the Heat a favor helping them strip that contract

I don't see how that helped Miami since they brought back Ryan Anderson. I know that Anderson could cost less than Johnson if they decide to waive him this offseason but I believe that's about a $4 million dollar difference. I would say Tyler Johnson is worth $4 million a year based on what we saw that season. Had we kept Anderson and waived him this summer, could we have added someone better than Johnson for $4 million? I don't think so but that's tough to say. As Krang pointed out he can be dealt in a larger deal for a star this summer as his cap number is much higher than $4 million and could help us make a deal with his $18-19 million dollar expiring contract. If we can't trade him at least he's worth keeping around which is more than can be said for Ryan Anderson, who couldn't outplay Dragan Bender at this point.