Suns 2019 GM/Front Office Search

[Raze]

Not just that but the owner (managing partner) seems to be the boss for many franchises. The owner having final say isn't the problem, it's at what level he's involving himself that's created a lot of the issues.

Yep.

And it isn't that he meddles. All owners meddle. It's that he's so incredibly bad at it.

Ideally an owners competency to meddling ratio should at least be greater than 1. After all, the more competent an owner is the more meddling he should be allowed to do. However, Sarver's competency level has proven time and time again to be incredibly low. Like one of the worst in professional sports. And yet he's one of the bigger meddlers.

He's like a PG who has a 0.10 AST/TO ratio. Sure, he might make a nice assist now and again, but it doesn't excuse his innumerable poor decisions. No one is going to win starting that guy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If Sarver is the monster we all think he is, don’t you think it makes ZERO sense to hire a third high-salary employee?

Monster? No.

Hubris? Yes.

Robert Sarver has been the biggest detriment to his own success. He has scared off competent employees, meddles, AND hired wretched employees (Blanks).

I dont blame McD as much as some because we dont know how much influence Sarver had on the situation.

 

[sunsfan88]

Well, if you believe the spin from a couple recent articles, that early success did lead him to think he had some kind of magic touch but reality has gradually moved him off that position. Even if you believe the articles (which I mostly do), we don't know how far off that position he's moved nor how gradual it's been.

I don't think he's the evil incompetent that some/many consider him to be but there's no doubt that he has heavily contributed to the downfall of this organization. Since we're stuck with him, we can only hope that he's continuing to learn from his mistakes.

There's just not many or any owners who would bring in farm animals to his GM's office and watch them defecate in it completely. To me, that's just a completely disrespectful thing to do to another human being much less to your own employee.

He's a huge control freak. I personally know people who have had entry level sales positions with the Suns and I've heard the stories of how he even micromanages them instead of letting their manager or supervisor do their thing. There's been numerous AMAs (ask-me-anything) on Reddit as well from former Suns employees who have told all kinds of mind=boggling stories about Sarver.

Sarver's biggest problem is that the Suns are his only business. Or at least his only business he cares about. He gets bored when he isn't involved with every bit of decision that revolves around the Suns so he micromanages either accidentally or on purpose.

The only solution to this other than him selling the team is for him to find a hobby other than basketball and dedicate some serious time to it or for him to start another business from ground up so that his time can be committed to that instead.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There's just not many or any owners who would bring in farm animals to his GM's office and watch them defecate in it completely. To me, that's just a completely disrespectful thing to do to another human being much less to your own employee.

When I initially read that story I flashed to the classic WKRP episode where Les Nessman tosses turkeys from a helicopter for a Thanksgiving giveaway. I could just picture Sarver saying "As God is my witness, I didn't think goats would defecate all over his office".

Maybe he was being a jerk, I think it was just socially inept foam finger Robert. But who knows.

 

[sunsfan88]

When I initially read that story I flashed to the classic WKRP episode where Les Nessman tosses turkeys from a helicopter for a Thanksgiving giveaway. I could just picture Sarver saying "As God is my witness, I didn't think goats would defecate all over his office".

Maybe he was being a jerk, I think it was just socially inept foam finger Robert. But who knows.

I think he’s letting him off too easy. Perhaps it’s just me and I find that whole thing to be extremely offensive. I laughed it at first because it didn’t happen to me but quickly realized it was just completely offensive and unprofessional.

Ryan McDonough was an awful GM but I don’t think any employee deserves that from their boss. It’s inhumane.

I mean if the Suns GM was a woman and she reported that Sarver inappropriately touched her, then we wouldn’t be discussing about whether he was being a jerk or if he was just socially inept. And yes, I understand the difference between the two and my example is definitely much worse than the goat feces thing but I think both remain wildly unprofessional (and one is obviously a crime).

If the Suns GM was a woman though and Sarver proceeded to have goats defecate in her office then I do believe she would’ve reported workplace harassment of some kind. It would certainly get much, much more media attention if it got to that and would’ve potentially got the ball rolling on getting Sarver out of Phoenix.

Selfishly, I wanted the Suns to hire Becky Hammon as HC for a similar reason.

 

[slinslin]

If three people are all the boss, then only one really is, and that is Sarver. A three-headed monster is still a monster.

Most succesful businesses have a collective decisionmaking process and that is what we should have too.

Personally I am just tuning out the media narrative on Sarver, it's all sensationalized and lazy beating a dead horse over and over because it makes for easy articles.

James Jones has done a good job. The clamoring for Griffin seems totally out of place to me. What great moves has he actually done? He lucked into Lebron wanting to return and handed out many bad contracts and made really bad draft picks.

GM of the year rewards are completely meaningless.

If Jones and Sarver who both worked with Griffin in the past don't want him that should tell you more than the media being outraged about the Suns not begging him to return.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think Sarver knows he is on the brink, both with the fan base and, sadly more importantly, the league and he no longer has the threat of relocation as leverage. He knows he needs to make this work. I don't know if he will make it work, but I think the more experienced NBA people around the better. If he has multiple people resisting his machinations (and especially if there is someone with the respect of other people in the league among them) then the more likely he is to delegate instead of manipulate.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man you guys dissect everything about and around Sarver and it all boils down to this:

He sucks

The league won’t do anything

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Sarver knows he is on the brink, both with the fan base and, sadly more importantly, the league and he no longer has the threat of relocation as leverage. He knows he needs to make this work. I don't know if he will make it work, but I think the more experienced NBA people around the better. If he has multiple people resisting his machinations (and especially if there is someone with the respect of other people in the league among them) then the more likely he is to delegate instead of manipulate.

What makes you say that? It was proven that he didn't threaten to take the Suns out of Arizona and that was something a council member had created for the media. Beyond that though what makes you think the league will step in and do something? What grounds would they have to do anything? There is literally no precedence for it. This is not close to the same as Philly with Hinkie either. Even then, I imagine their owner could have fought that but instead they welcomed the Colangelos and Hinkie resigned in protest. There's no reason for the league to save the Suns from Sarver, or save Sarver from himself. He owns this team and is free to make decisions as the owner, whether they work or not. The league won't make him step down. At the most they may tell him he needs to take on someone as an advisor like Colangelo in Philly but if he refuses then what? We don't know but based on Sarver's history I can definitely see him saying no.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Most succesful businesses have a collective decisionmaking process and that is what we should have too.

Personally I am just tuning out the media narrative on Sarver, it's all sensationalized and lazy beating a dead horse over and over because it makes for easy articles.

James Jones has done a good job. The clamoring for Griffin seems totally out of place to me. What great moves has he actually done? He lucked into Lebron wanting to return and handed out many bad contracts and made really bad draft picks.

GM of the year rewards are completely meaningless.

If Jones and Sarver who both worked with Griffin in the past don't want him that should tell you more than the media being outraged about the Suns not begging him to return.

I actually agree with you on every point here--collective decision-making, lazy news media, James Jones, Griffin and GM of the year (kinda). I am just not sure how collective it actually is when Sarver is speaking loudly about basketball decisions.

 

[Phrazbit]

What makes you say that? It was proven that he didn't threaten to take the Suns out of Arizona and that was something a council member had created for the media. Beyond that though what makes you think the league will step in and do something? What grounds would they have to do anything? There is literally no precedence for it. This is not close to the same as Philly with Hinkie either. Even then, I imagine their owner could have fought that but instead they welcomed the Colangelos and Hinkie resigned in protest. There's no reason for the league to save the Suns from Sarver, or save Sarver from himself. He owns this team and is free to make decisions as the owner, whether they work or not. The league won't make him step down. At the most they may tell him he needs to take on someone as an advisor like Colangelo in Philly but if he refuses then what? We don't know but based on Sarver's history I can definitely see him saying no.

In the last decade we've seen the NBA take over a franchise completely (New Orleans) force an owner to sell (Clippers) and force a club to restructure their management (Sixers). I think there is a LOT of precedence that another year or so of the Suns level of ineptitude would trigger the league pressuring Sarver to either stop meddling and hire respected people to run the franchise or sell it entirely.

With media revenue where it is the NBA is, rightfully, weary of parasite franchises living off the bounty of a league where it's almost impossible to operate at a deficit. The Suns have, historically, had one of the best fan bases in the league and Sarver is destroying it. The Suns should be a massive financial boon for the modern NBA and under Sarver they're a bottom feeder. I guarantee that other owners are beginning to resent his mismanagement.

 

[sunsfan88]

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[AzStevenCal]

In the last decade we've seen the NBA take over a franchise completely (New Orleans) force an owner to sell (Clippers) and force a club to restructure their management (Sixers). I think there is a LOT of precedence that another year or so of the Suns level of ineptitude would trigger the league pressuring Sarver to either stop meddling and hire respected people to run the franchise or sell it entirely.

With media revenue where it is the NBA is, rightfully, weary of parasite franchises living off the bounty of a league where it's almost impossible to operate at a deficit. The Suns have, historically, had one of the best fan bases in the league and Sarver is destroying it. The Suns should be a massive financial boon for the modern NBA and under Sarver they're a bottom feeder. I guarantee that other owners are beginning to resent his mismanagement.

The Phoenix situation is nothing like the 3 you're referring to. There was the promise of a sale involved in New Orleans and the league wasn't interfering, they were functionally running the franchise until the deal was finalized. They let the Clippers (and Kings and TWolves and so on) continue for multiple decades with laughingly worse results than we've experienced, they didn't step in until an owner crossed an uncrossable line. The Philly situation is a little closer to ours but they were making a mockery of the league minimum agreement and Hinkie's relationship with Agents and fellow GMs had become untenable. And all they did there was contact the Owner group and recommend they add an outside voice. They aren't interfering in Phoenix unless Sarver does something away from the game that embarrasses them (IMO).

 

[Ronin]

Phoenix Suns to hire Jeff Bower as senior VP of basketball operations

http://arizonasports.com/story/1904...-of-basketball-operations/?utm_source=Twitter

 

[JCSunsfan]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1904...-of-basketball-operations/?utm_source=Twitter

I would be curious to see how the management flow chart look in this arrangement.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the last decade we've seen the NBA take over a franchise completely (New Orleans) force an owner to sell (Clippers) and force a club to restructure their management (Sixers). I think there is a LOT of precedence that another year or so of the Suns level of ineptitude would trigger the league pressuring Sarver to either stop meddling and hire respected people to run the franchise or sell it entirely.

With media revenue where it is the NBA is, rightfully, weary of parasite franchises living off the bounty of a league where it's almost impossible to operate at a deficit. The Suns have, historically, had one of the best fan bases in the league and Sarver is destroying it. The Suns should be a massive financial boon for the modern NBA and under Sarver they're a bottom feeder. I guarantee that other owners are beginning to resent his mismanagement.

Not a chance in hell. None of those “precedents” are precedents for just flat ineptitude. Not even close to comparable.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not a chance in hell. None of those “precedents” are precedents for just flat ineptitude. Not even close to comparable.

Agreed. The Suns are not even presently the worst run team in the league.

With the Hornets (New Orleans) one owner was trying to buy out another and the ownership group did not have enough cash to make the team viable. The league had to step in just to keep the franchise afloat while they looked for a new owner.

With the Clippers, it was a matter of publicized racism in a league with very high minority representation among the players.

With the Sixers, they were very openly and publicly NOT trying to be competitive in order to get better draft picks. They were making no effort to put an NBA level team on the floor.

None of these applies to the Suns.

 

[1Sun]

Agreed. The Suns are not even presently the worst run team in the league.

With the Hornets (New Orleans) one owner was trying to buy out another and the ownership group did not have enough cash to make the team viable. The league had to step in just to keep the franchise afloat while they looked for a new owner.

With the Clippers, it was a matter of publicized racism in a league with very high minority representation among the players.

With the Sixers, they were very openly and publicly NOT trying to be competitive in order to get better draft picks. They were making no effort to put an NBA level team on the floor.

None of these applies to the Suns.

I don't know. The Sixers scenario seems awfully familiar when you look at the last few years, starting with holding Bledsoe out deliberately.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know. The Sixers scenario seems awfully familiar when you look at the last few years, starting with holding Bledsoe out deliberately.

But that’s already in the past. The suns didn’t do that this season. It had become institutionalized with the sixers and hinckie. That’s not the case with the suns.

 

[1Sun]

But that’s already in the past. The suns didn’t do that this season. It had become institutionalized with the sixers and hinckie. That’s not the case with the suns.

Again, I don't know. They made no effort to fill holes at point guard and power forward despite not having a single NBA caliber player at either position.

 

[BC867]

To our fellow posters who condone the behavior of Suns leadership during the past decade, I have five words.

The results speak for themselves.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To our fellow posters who condone the behavior of Suns leadership during the past decade, I have five words.

The results speak for themselves.

I haven’t seen a single poster who meets your description.

And aren’t you the one who constantly says you don’t make it personal? Isn’t this the very epitome of making it personal by devising a post solely aimed at certain people? Just sayin’ . . .

 

[BC867]

I haven’t seen a single poster who meets your description.

And aren’t you the one who constantly says you don’t make it personal? Isn’t this the very epitome of making it personal by devising a post solely aimed at certain people? Just sayin’ . . .

Huh? I reacted to posts condoning Suns leadership. That is as close as I get to personal.

 

[Yuma]

We discuss how we think this will affect the team, because what else do we have to do? I will take the wait and see approach. I know most teams want to stretch their PR reach by announcing moves one at a time. If we keep James Jones in the GM spot, I will be skeptical about this change, but willing to see how it plays out. I will be shocked if Bower is allowed to pick the GM he wants. If that scenario does happen, I will be slightly impressed he was given some sort of autonomy.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm surprised by how many of you think that the league wouldn't step in.

Maybe I'm wrong, hopefully we'll turn it around and we'll never have to know if I was right, but the 3 examples I gave, while not specific to our situation, also never had prior precedence either. The league has forced sales, forced management changes and even altered rules (see the "Stepien Rule") to protect terribly run franchises from themselves. If the Suns have yet another miserable season next year I honestly think the league will either force Sarver out or force Sarver to change the management structure of the franchise.