Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Ronin]

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[Superbone]

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I wish it resulted in wins. Dunn absolutely needs more playing time.

 

[Phrazbit]

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Someone like Bob Myers is never happening because Ishbia isn’t giving up that much control. If Jones gets fired one of the underlings will get promoted.

I think the real obstacle right now for hiring a quality GM is how deep the hole is. The team is totally hamstrung and will be for years... the only moves that change much about our situation is selling off what few assets we have and settling in for an extremely long rebuild.

Furthermore, Ishbia has had 3 coaches now in a mere 2 years of ownership, wouldn't be shocked if he axes Bud after this season either. Any GM would have a hard time seeing themselves as surviving the long rebuild. Even if they do a good job of ripping the team apart for future assets, the interim will probably be so brutal that they'd get the axe before we come out the other side.

If JJ gets fired I bet we promote from within, it will be someone Ishbia already knows.

 

[Yuma]

Anything can happen. Supposedly, Brendon Kleen says Coach Bud was brought in for the long haul because he is good developing players. IDK if that's true. Kleen is just relaying what he's heard around the Suns. If that is true, then Coach Bud was brought in for the wrong reasons. We have older players that need a different skill set. Vogel was brought in as a center whisperer who was going to help straighten Ayton out, and then they trade Ayton. Monty was run because he was supposedly a developmental coach, who had problems coaching older guys. If that was true, why bring in Coach Bud? This whole coach matching players thing seems disjointed.

 

[Hoop Head]

Anything can happen. Supposedly, Brendon Kleen says Coach Bud was brought in for the long haul because he is good developing players. IDK if that's true. Kleen is just relaying what he's heard around the Suns. If that is true, then Coach Bud was brought in for the wrong reasons. We have older players that need a different skill set. Vogel was brought in as a center whisperer who was going to help straighten Ayton out, and then they trade Ayton. Monty was run because he was supposedly a developmental coach, who had problems coaching older guys. If that was true, why bring in Coach Bud? This whole coach matching players thing seems disjointed.

I don't think your narratives are right. Ayton asked to be traded and the Suns obliged. If Vogel was brought in as a Center whisperer then that makes no sense to trade Ayton. Vogel hasn't had success with Centers outside of Roy Hibbert in Indiana also. He didn't use AD as a C that often in LA and he did nothing of note across the board in Orlando. Vogel was the only coach with a championship on his resume available. That's why he was brought in.

Monty had a great relationship with Chris Paul, which is a large part of why CP3 wanted to come here after Monty and the Suns were trending up post bubble. Monty clashed with Jae Crowder but there were no other "old" players here. Monty likes players to fit a mold and we didn't have a lot of guys like that but he seemed to get along well with those who consistently put forth effort. He clashed with Ayton, who was young, but to say Ayton has motivation issues is an understatement. Monty was brought in to develop the youngsters. He did that with Mikal, Cam J, Payne, and helped Booker take the next step. Monty was brought in to create a culture and erase the decade of despair.

Budenholzer is a championship winning coach who is touted as an offensive guru. He hasn't been able to employ his offense fully because too many guys want to play iso ball instead of sharing the ball and finding the best shot that is created by ball movement and smaller player movement. Bud also has front office experience as he's worn the coach and GM hats at the same time. If he was brought in long term then he could be the guy to take over for JJ since JJ has failed to supply him with players who can work within the system he wants to run. We are limited in what we can do due to the financial restraints of the CBA but there have been moves mentioned as available that could have eased those financial restrictions and/or provide Bud with more players who can play his style of basketball but for various reasons unbeknownst to us the team didn't pull the trigger.

 

[Superbone]

Anything can happen. Supposedly, Brendon Kleen says Coach Bud was brought in for the long haul because he is good developing players. IDK if that's true. Kleen is just relaying what he's heard around the Suns. If that is true, then Coach Bud was brought in for the wrong reasons. We have older players that need a different skill set. Vogel was brought in as a center whisperer who was going to help straighten Ayton out, and then they trade Ayton. Monty was run because he was supposedly a developmental coach, who had problems coaching older guys. If that was true, why bring in Coach Bud? This whole coach matching players thing seems disjointed.

Not to mention along those lines, bringing in Doncic's coach and then drafting Ayton.

 

[Superbone]

Budenholzer is a championship winning coach who is touted as an offensive guru. He hasn't been able to employ his offense fully because too many guys want to play iso ball instead of sharing the ball and finding the best shot that is created by ball movement and smaller player movement. Bud also has front office experience as he's worn the coach and GM hats at the same time. If he was brought in long term then he could be the guy to take over for JJ since JJ has failed to supply him with players who can work within the system he wants to run. We are limited in what we can do due to the financial restraints of the CBA but there have been moves mentioned as available that could have eased those financial restrictions and/or provide Bud with more players who can play his style of basketball but for various reasons unbeknownst to us the team didn't pull the trigger.

So you think the players refuse to run Bud's plays and play their own iso plays instead? That seems far fetched.

 

[Superbone]

Looks like Suns arena name might be changing:

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United Wholesale Mortgage Arena?

 

[BirdGangThing]

Looks like Suns arena name might be changing:

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United Wholesale Mortgage Arena?

mid season? lol are we that bad?

 

[SirStefan32]

So you think the players refuse to run Bud's plays and play their own iso plays instead? That seems far fetched.

It's one of the great mysteries of this team. They don't move the ball consistently. They also don't move without the ball consistently. They'll do it in spurts, but it seems they end up in iso and pick and rolls where they turn the ball over. I can't imagine that Bud designed that. I blamed Frank and the lack of point guards last year, but nothing has changed. Players refusing to run coaches' offense may seem far-fetched, but I don't have a better explanation. Bud is a really good coach. Hell, Frank is a good coach. There is zero chance they designed this offense.

 

[Covert Rain]

Anything can happen. Supposedly, Brendon Kleen says Coach Bud was brought in for the long haul because he is good developing players. IDK if that's true. Kleen is just relaying what he's heard around the Suns. If that is true, then Coach Bud was brought in for the wrong reasons. We have older players that need a different skill set. Vogel was brought in as a center whisperer who was going to help straighten Ayton out, and then they trade Ayton. Monty was run because he was supposedly a developmental coach, who had problems coaching older guys. If that was true, why bring in Coach Bud? This whole coach matching players thing seems disjointed.

I don't think Vogel having been brought in had anything to do with straightening Ayton out. Ayton was already on the way out. The organization had decided they had enough and didn't want to commit anymore money long term to the guy.

 

[Covert Rain]

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Durant is still one of the best players in the league on both ends. It's not translating to wins. KD may not win titles everywhere he goes but when he has been on a healthy team he wins everywhere he goes. I will say it again, KD is not the problem. This team has much bigger issues.

 

[Chaplin]

Durant is still one of the best players in the league on both ends. It's not translating to wins. KD may not win titles everywhere he goes but when he has been on a healthy team he wins everywhere he goes. I will say it again, KD is not the problem. This team has much bigger issues.

Blasphemy

 

[Hoop Head]

So you think the players refuse to run Bud's plays and play their own iso plays instead? That seems far fetched.

It's really not if you listen to Bud's philosophies for offense. He wants guys to play random, as in create for themselves and others. He allows them freedom to improvise. We're seeing the same things we saw last year with Vogel as coach though. Iso ball where guys pound the air out of the ball. The role players move more and try to make quick reads when they get the ball but KD and to a lesser extent Booker don't. Tyus has essentially ceded PG duties to KD, Booker, and Beal also. He doesn't direct the offense so much as defer to the "stars".

What choice does Bud have though? If KD, Booker, and Beal don't run his plays then is he going to start a war with them in the locker room that ends up in the media? How many spats between coaches and players have coaches won?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

KD isn't the problem, but he doesn't make the team any better as well. They are like +2 or something when he's on the floor. Kind of crazy.

 

[Suns_fan69]

It's one of the great mysteries of this team. They don't move the ball consistently. They also don't move without the ball consistently. They'll do it in spurts, but it seems they end up in iso and pick and rolls where they turn the ball over. I can't imagine that Bud designed that. I blamed Frank and the lack of point guards last year, but nothing has changed. Players refusing to run coaches' offense may seem far-fetched, but I don't have a better explanation. Bud is a really good coach. Hell, Frank is a good coach. There is zero chance they designed this offense.

The biggest culprit in my mind are the plays where they spend a good 15 seconds to bring the ball up the court and then run through switches solely to try to get a mismatch on a weak defender on KD or Book, then get the ball to them for ISO. It's probably "good offense", as in it can generate a reasonably high percentage shot, but it's predictable and not fun to watch.

 

[GatorAZ]

KD isn't the problem, but he doesn't make the team any better as well. They are like +2 or something when he's on the floor. Kind of crazy.

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KD’s numbers are amazing but he isn’t a leader and doesn’t make his teammates better. That’s why Golden St was the best fit in the history of fits. There was already a leadership structure in place and their hot potato system suited his skillset. Steph and Dray both averaged more assists but it made KD the greatest killer in the game scoring wise. We just don’t have the dudes to elevate him to that level.

 

[Ronin]

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[Phrazbit]

Durant is still one of the best players in the league on both ends. It's not translating to wins. KD may not win titles everywhere he goes but when he has been on a healthy team he wins everywhere he goes. I will say it again, KD is not the problem. This team has much bigger issues.

The trade is the problem, we were never going to be able to build a proper team with the cost of that terrible trade.

KD also not participating in the team’s offensive scheme and turning the ball over like he’s drunk doesn’t help.

 

[95pro]

Durant is the problem.

He's great a getting HIS stats, but not getting the team their stats.

The offense continues to be bogged down, something we've seen with all three coaches. Can't say the same for Book, Book has been a team player and has shown that he will and can play within, and for a system.

KD is starting to remind me of Melo and LeBron. They put up fantastic numbers and percentages but manage to do so by ignoring the team aspect. Melo by ignoring his team completely, Lebron on the defensive end, KD on the systematic and x's and o's of plays.

You cannot have a team with the appointed leader doing un-team-like things. And the team leader cannot say the coach is the leader. He will not, and has not, taken accountability for his teams.

Durant just wants to hoop.

 

[Chaplin]

Durant is the problem.

He's great a getting HIS stats, but not getting the team their stats.

The offense continues to be bogged down, something we've seen with all three coaches. Can't say the same for Book, Book has been a team player and has shown that he will and can play within, and for a system.

KD is starting to remind me of Melo and LeBron. They put up fantastic numbers and percentages but manage to do so by ignoring the team aspect. Melo by ignoring his team completely, Lebron on the defensive end, KD on the systematic and x's and o's of plays.

You cannot have a team with the appointed leader doing un-team-like things. And the team leader cannot say the coach is the leader. He will not, and has not, taken accountability for his teams.

Durant just wants to hoop.

So why force him to become the leader of the team? The guy has MVPs and rings already, and you're minimizing him as a cancer, which is simply untrue. These comparisons to Melo are absolutely ridiculous. KD is one of the greatest offensive talents this game has ever seen and he is light years better defensively than Melo ever was.

Should he be more of a leader? Maybe. But he's been in the league a long time and he is what he is. To expect him to change at this point is unrealistic. I'm more critical of Book not becoming that vocal leader. Funny thing, is we have a good player that can become that vocal leader, but he hasn't stepped up -- whether that's because he's now a bench player or what, I don't know.

But blaming KD for not being a leader is ridiculous. He never has been, so your expectations are based on a delusion.

 

[Phrazbit]

So why force him to become the leader of the team? The guy has MVPs and rings already, and you're minimizing him as a cancer, which is simply untrue. These comparisons to Melo are absolutely ridiculous. KD is one of the greatest offensive talents this game has ever seen and he is light years better defensively than Melo ever was.

Should he be more of a leader? Maybe. But he's been in the league a long time and he is what he is. To expect him to change at this point is unrealistic. I'm more critical of Book not becoming that vocal leader. Funny thing, is we have a good player that can become that vocal leader, but he hasn't stepped up -- whether that's because he's now a bench player or what, I don't know.

But blaming KD for not being a leader is ridiculous. He never has been, so your expectations are based on a delusion.

Being a player of his stature and his accolades, being a leader should go hand-in-hand with that.

He should either lead or he should play within the same offense as the rest of the team, he does neither.

I agree, he’s not a leader, he never has been, it’s why trading for him was so stupid.

 

[Chaplin]

Being a player of his stature and his accolades, being a leader should go hand-in-hand with that.

He should either lead or he should play within the same offense as the rest of the team, he does neither.

I agree, he’s not a leader, he never has been, it’s why trading for him with that haul was so stupid.

FTFY

We might have paid too much, but they guy is a generational talent. If you can get him, you try to get him.

 

[95pro]

So why force him to become the leader of the team? The guy has MVPs and rings already, and you're minimizing him as a cancer, which is simply untrue. These comparisons to Melo are absolutely ridiculous. KD is one of the greatest offensive talents this game has ever seen and he is light years better defensively than Melo ever was.

Should he be more of a leader? Maybe. But he's been in the league a long time and he is what he is. To expect him to change at this point is unrealistic. I'm more critical of Book not becoming that vocal leader. Funny thing, is we have a good player that can become that vocal leader, but he hasn't stepped up -- whether that's because he's now a bench player or what, I don't know.

But blaming KD for not being a leader is ridiculous. He never has been, so your expectations are based on a delusion.

I said appointed, not forced. I think some fans think he is the leader. I wish Book would stop bowing down to KD and say this is my team and play like he did when they were chanting mvp mvp.

I did not blame KD for not being a leader. I blame him based on the negative aspects that everyone overlooks when it comes to him. I dont consider him a leader, some do, maybe some of the younger guys (Dunn) look up to him and think he is the leader of the suns.

 

[Phrazbit]

Durant is the problem.

He's great a getting HIS stats, but not getting the team their stats.

The offense continues to be bogged down, something we've seen with all three coaches. Can't say the same for Book, Book has been a team player and has shown that he will and can play within, and for a system.

KD is starting to remind me of Melo and LeBron. They put up fantastic numbers and percentages but manage to do so by ignoring the team aspect. Melo by ignoring his team completely, Lebron on the defensive end, KD on the systematic and x's and o's of plays.

You cannot have a team with the appointed leader doing un-team-like things. And the team leader cannot say the coach is the leader. He will not, and has not, taken accountability for his teams.

Durant just wants to hoop.

Adding to this, if you’re the type of player who gets a coach fired just about every other season or more and you better step up and fill the leadership void that you were continuously creating.

Durant has had like six or seven coaches just since leaving the Warriors and several of them he publicly demanded that they get fired.