Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Phrazbit]

Our offense was very predictable and very slow, come the 4th quarter teams when teams lock in it was easy for the opposition to defend against.

I don't think fatigue had much to do with our struggles.

 

[clyde2tw]

Our offense was very predictable and very slow, come the 4th quarter teams when teams lock in it was easy for the opposition to defend against.

I don't think fatigue had much to do with our struggles.

agree. Vogel never solved the hard bodying-up harassment on KD and to a lesser extent on Booker, that disrupted our offense a lot and caused TOs. In the 4th, it's predictable that we'd go to ISOs for KD or Book, the adjustment opposing teams need to do was minimal. The adversary effects doubled this way.

 

[Ronin]

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[somethingshesaid]

I am seeing people everywhere fretting that this new Suns team lacks size.

Yeah, well, that problem has appeared before in Suns history. The 1992-93 Suns were famously undersized. How far did they go despite their lack of size? Despite every playoff opponent, especially all three WC teams, exploiting it.

A trio of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal compares acceptably to Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle. Even considering that the Durant-Booker-Beal trio is less entertaining and charismatic.

 

[GatorAZ]

I am seeing people everywhere fretting that this new Suns team lacks size.

Yeah, well, that problem has appeared before in Suns history. The 1992-93 Suns were famously undersized. How far did they go despite their lack of size? Despite every playoff opponent, especially all three WC teams, exploiting it.

A trio of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal compares acceptably to Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle. Even considering that the Durant-Booker-Beal trio is less entertaining and charismatic.

93’ team wasn’t undersized but the Nash teams were.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am seeing people everywhere fretting that this new Suns team lacks size.

Yeah, well, that problem has appeared before in Suns history. The 1992-93 Suns were famously undersized. How far did they go despite their lack of size? Despite every playoff opponent, especially all three WC teams, exploiting it.

A trio of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal compares acceptably to Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle. Even considering that the Durant-Booker-Beal trio is less entertaining and charismatic.

Difference between those guys is Barkley/KJ were born leaders. KD and Book aren’t.

 

[somethingshesaid]

93’ team wasn’t undersized but the Nash teams were.

Of course the 1993 team was undersized--in comparison with other teams of that time. 6'10" forwards and 7-foot centers were almost everywhere. And they weren't oversized shooting guards chucking three-point shots. They banged near and under the basket. It was a constant problem for the 1993 team in the playoffs. Against the Seattle Supersonics in particular. Barkley beat them through sheer will and work.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Funny to see people fret over an inch. We’ve got Nurk and Plumlee. And we still have a 6-11 forward in Durant and a rookie big too.

 

[Hoop Head]

Funny to see people fret over an inch. We’ve got Nurk and Plumlee. And we still have a 6-11 forward in Durant and a rookie big too.

Did you watch the Minnesota series? Size was a definite issue for the Suns. The Wolves had their SF on KD defensively and KAT was free to rebound and bother our small guards on the perimeter. Then on the defensive side we didn't have an answer to their frontcourt size, 7' KAT and 6'9" Jaden McDaniels, meant we'd allow a mismatch every possession because Booker wasn't big enough to handle either, in terms of height or physicality, plus he was guarding Ant most of the time and that was a nightmare since he didn't have the speed to keep up with him. Beal and Grayson were abused for 4 games.

You think they'd fair much better against a Denver frontcourt of Jokic, AG, and MPJ? Because I don't. I'm not too excited about how OKC added Hartenstein either as that would allow them to play him with Chet and Jalen Williams at SF with Caruso and SGA in their backcourt. Other than Caruso I believe they'd have a size advantage at every position and Caruso's size is the least of our worries as he's one of the best all around defenders in the league. That's 3 teams, all who finished better than the Suns, that have size advantages that can and have swung games in their favor vs Phoenix. There's virtually zero chance we can get out of the West without facing one of them as well.

Size is an issue for the Suns, as it's always been, and this is likely the last year we have even an outside chance of winning a title with KD so I'd rather not be sitting here next off-season saying "Man, size is always an issue for the Suns" again or hearing someone say "it was only an inch, I don't get the big deal".

 

[somethingshesaid]

Funny to see people fret over an inch. We’ve got Nurk and Plumlee. And we still have a 6-11 forward in Durant and a rookie big too.

Yeah, well, don't look at me. I'm saying that past Suns teams have dealt with size problems before.

 

[somethingshesaid]

I noted that Cheese bluntly stated that Devin Booker is not a leader. I'm pleased that someone besides me would say so. When is he going to acknowledge that his "just chillin'" persona is not conducive to leading. I don't want him to be a bully like Michael Jordan or Kevin Garnett, but if he would quit chillin' and evoke the spirit of Kevin Johnson dunking on Hakeem Olajuwon...that would be nice.

 

[Hoop Head]

I noted that Cheese bluntly stated that Devin Booker is not a leader. I'm pleased that someone besides me would say so. When is he going to acknowledge that his "just chillin'" persona is not conducive to leading. I don't want him to be a bully like Michael Jordan or Kevin Garnett, but if he would quit chillin' and evoke the spirit of Kevin Johnson dunking on Hakeem Olajuwon...that would be nice.

And how did that help the Suns? Weren't the Suns down by double digits and ended up losing that series? It may have sold some posters and gotten KJ a better shoe deal but it didn't produce wins in the playoffs.

I'm not saying I don't want to see more fire out of Booker, because I do, but I'd prefer he just step up like Chuck did and lead. I'm not sure he can while KD is here though since I believe KD's attitude is the issue that's set this team back. Westbrook was the fire in OKC, Steph was the leader in Golden State, and no one lead in Brooklyn. Booker seems to respect his elders and league legends to a fault though and won't call them out when needed. He didn't seem willing to do that with CP3 and he hasn't with KD.

 

[Mainstreet]

I noted that Cheese bluntly stated that Devin Booker is not a leader. I'm pleased that someone besides me would say so. When is he going to acknowledge that his "just chillin'" persona is not conducive to leading. I don't want him to be a bully like Michael Jordan or Kevin Garnett, but if he would quit chillin' and evoke the spirit of Kevin Johnson dunking on Hakeem Olajuwon...that would be nice.

Devin Booker was indispensable as a starter on the U.S. Olympic team. Without him, Stephen Curry may not have had his moments.

Charles Barkley didn't win any NBA championships. Neither did Kevin Johnson or two time MVP Steve Nash. The same applies to Chris Paul, but they are all leaders.

It takes five players to make a team. If the Suns had won a championship, I suspect everyone would be gushing over how Devin Booker is a great leader.

Devin Booker is definitely a leader. The pieces simply have not come together at the right time in Phoenix to win a championship.

 

[95pro]

Devin Booker was an indispensable as a starter on the U.S. Olympic team. Without him, Stephen Curry may not have had his moments.

Charles Barkley didn't win any NBA championships. Neither did Kevin Johnson or two time MVP Steve Nash. The same applies to Chris Paul, but they are all leaders.

It takes five players to make a team. If the Suns had won a championship, I suspect everyone would be gushing over how Devin Booker is a great leader.

Devin Booker is definitely a leader. The pieces simply have not come together at the right time in Phoenix to win a championship.

Through social media and tv, what have you...All those mentioned were definitely leaders; Chuck, KJ, Nash, CP3.

Thus far, no mention of Book or KD being a leader. There have been plenty of voices saying Book needs to step up and lead the Suns though.

Idk if Book will ever be the leader we want him to be, he's already right up there within the ranks of greatest Sun ever.

IMO, he see's himself as a brand and this is a business, I'm sure he wants to win as well, but I don't think dominating and winning it all is the ultimate prize for some of these players these days. Getting paid tons of money will make you feel that way, takes away the luster of a Championship.

 

[Mainstreet]

Through social media and tv, what have you...All those mentioned were definitely leaders; Chuck, KJ, Nash, CP3.

Thus far, no mention of Book or KD being a leader. There have been plenty of voices saying Book needs to step up and lead the Suns though.

Idk if Book will ever be the leader we want him to be, he's already right up there within the ranks of greatest Sun ever.

IMO, he see's himself as a brand and this is a business, I'm sure he wants to win as well, but I don't think dominating and winning it all is the ultimate prize for some of these players these days. Getting paid tons of money will make you feel that way, takes away the luster of a Championship.

I see Devin Booker as a top tier professional when it comes to basketball, so much so that he is willing to sacrifice other parts of his game to win. We saw that with the U.S. Olympic team.

I've never thought Booker was playing the game with money as the primary motivator.

Yes, he wants to be respected and to play the game the right way. I admire him for that, but I've never questioned his love of the game or desire to win at the highest level.

 

[somethingshesaid]

I've never questioned his love of the game or desire to win at the highest level.

Nor have I. I question the effectiveness of his on-court personality and demeanor.

 

[SirStefan32]

I dislike the leadership discussion because nobody can ever agree on the basic definitions. Since there are different types of leaders, it is a nuanced topic that's difficult to discuss in general, but particularly difficult in writing short messages on a message board. I'll just say that I think Booker has been growing into a leader, and he shows many leadership qualities. That said, having KD on the team, in my humble opinion, is really detrimental to Booker's development when it comes to leadership. KD is a legend- Booker's idol, one of the best players of all time, but he is also an easy-going stoner who just wants to hoop. It is very difficult to take the leadership role when you have a legend and an idol on your team who is STILL a better player than you are. Just to clarify, I like KD, I am OK with the KD trade- I am not in any way anti-KD. I just think his presence hurts Booker's leadership development.