Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[clyde2tw]

Beal was the only guy who seemed to change his game to fit the team than force his style of play on the team. He was a consummate professional last year. You don't pay that back by ticking him off. He showed play making abilities last year. Let him continue to do that. Outside of trading him for either Ben Simmons or Zach LaVine, there's not much of a market for him either. I think Miami might bite but that involves taking Herro back, which is almost as bad as LaVine or Simmons.

Beal is professional in there, and he was quite healthy the 2nd half of the season despite unfortunate injury setbacks twice. Bud may be able to instill some Jrue mentality in him as both are equally strong for their size, Beal in his mold needs to focus even more on defense, and ball handling where he needs some playsets for help to be more effective with his aggressive drives.

 

[GatorAZ]

Beal was the only guy who seemed to change his game to fit the team than force his style of play on the team. He was a consummate professional last year. You don't pay that back by ticking him off. He showed play making abilities last year. Let him continue to do that. Outside of trading him for either Ben Simmons or Zach LaVine, there's not much of a market for him either. I think Miami might bite but that involves taking Herro back, which is almost as bad as LaVine or Simmons.

Beal was hurt for half the season then no showed in the playoffs. They’re paying him $50m a year. If he doesn’t like what he’s told he can waive his NTC and go to Miami somehow.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns are reportedly still trying to bring back Josh Okogie, but there is competition and they would have to use his Bird Rights.

I want Kyle Lowry, please, even if they have to waive Roddy.

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[clyde2tw]

it's strange to me why Damion opted out in the first place now he just signed the same min. contract for 1 year?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe DLee thought he would get more interest than he did. He gave it a shot.

We don't need Lowry at this point.

 

[Phrazbit]

it's strange to me why Damion opted out in the first place now he just signed the same min. contract for 1 year?

It's weird contract stuff in the CBA.

Getting into technical stuff I only somewhat understand... if you keep resigning with the same over the cap team on min deals, that team can offer you marginal pay raises every year you stick around, while if you left that team for a new franchise at a min deal, you're starting at the base minimum contract. So, by him opting out of his 2nd year min deal and then signing onto a 3rd year min deal with that same team, it allows him a pay bump.

Basically, he can make about 25% more in Phoenix as a 3rd year "minimum" guy than he could anywhere else as a 1st year minimum guy.

Where it gets juicy is after that 3rd year. Once a player spends 3 years with the same team, they have their full "bird rights", which means they can pay that guy basically all the way up to the max, even if the franchise is over the cap. I doubt that I would matter in Lee's case but it makes sense as a player. You're on your 3rd contract with this team, so you're getting more than a 1st year contract guy AND if you somehow break out, they can actually reward you big.

Okogie lands in this same camp too. If he leaves, he is gambling on himself to break out in a big way AND have some other team with cap space offer him a lucrative deal... while if he stays here, he could get much more than a min deal and have the potential for a monster pay day if he somehow learns how to shoot.

 

[Phrazbit]

Fun story, a lot of these rules were put in place because of Jerry Colangelo. He was an expert in finding the grey areas in salary structure, specifically with signing Danny Manning.
He signed Manning to a 1 year, dirt cheap deal, with the promise that he'd sign him to a big one after. Sadly, Manning tore his knee up in that first season, but Jerry was a players owner, so he honored his word and signed him to the promised big deal, despite Manning being hobbled.

The NBA took notice and put a lot of rules in to prevent owners from circumventing the cap via 1 year, hand shake deals.

The Wolves flagrantly violated this rule (for Joe Smith of all players) and got docked multiple first round picks.

 

[Yuma]

Brendon Kleen went over last year's record and how Booker and Beal were MIA for most of the beginning of last season and the team still won 49 games. He pointed out when Beal came back the team was 33-18 in that span after Beal came back. The Suns could have easily been higher than the sixth seed, and possibly had a better playoff draw in the first round.

Also, last year we could only really depend on Booker, Beal, KD, Nurkic, Allen, and Oneal, and possibly Bol in the playoff roster. Not a deep team at all. Now you add Plumlee and Morris to the mix, and while arguably not playoff difference makers, they make this team a bit deeper.

The wild cards to making this team more watchable will be the rookies. Not counting on them to be playoff worthy, just to help make the long season more watchable. To me it's fun watching guys games develop in real time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fun story, a lot of these rules were put in place because of Jerry Colangelo. He was an expert in finding the grey areas in salary structure, specifically with signing Danny Manning.
He signed Manning to a 1 year, dirt cheap deal, with the promise that he'd sign him to a big one after. Sadly, Manning tore his knee up in that first season, but Jerry was a players owner, so he honored his word and signed him to the promised big deal, despite Manning being hobbled.

The NBA took notice and put a lot of rules in to prevent owners from circumventing the cap via 1 year, hand shake deals.

The Wolves flagrantly violated this rule (for Joe Smith of all players) and got docked multiple first round picks.

Jerry certainly played a big part in it but he wasn't the only one getting inventive with loopholes to avoid the intent of the rules.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns could have easily been higher than the sixth seed, and possibly had a better playoff draw in the first round.

Lets talk about this. I seem to recall everyone being excited about drawing Minnesota as we won the season series and supposedly matched up with them better. That was false, of course. This team imploded in the playoffs but I don't think who they faced would have mattered. Drawing OKC, Denver, Clippers, or Mavericks wouldn't have helped.

 

[Bobster]

Jerry certainly played a big part in it but he wasn't the only one getting inventive with loopholes to avoid the intent of the rules.

Portland was the first to use an opt-out clause to sign a player (Chris Dudley) to a contract that would lead to a bigger deal the next year, but Colangelo was pretty quick in copying that (when they signed A.C. Green). Before that, the Suns were the best at signing a player to a one-year deal with a bigger deal after that (Manning and Wayman Tisdale).

 

[AzStevenCal]

Portland was the first to use an opt-out clause to sign a player (Chris Dudley) to a contract that would lead to a bigger deal the next year, but Colangelo was pretty quick in copying that (when they signed A.C. Green). Before that, the Suns were the best at signing a player to a one-year deal with a bigger deal after that (Manning and Wayman Tisdale).

Yeah Dudley was the one that first crossed my mind. Stern gave the league a warning after Portland and JC blurred the lines, making it clear that he wouldn't stand for any similar behavior even if it wasn't specifically against the rules. That's probably a small part of why Minnesota got hit so hard for the Joe Smith fiasco.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns are reportedly still trying to bring back Josh Okogie, but there is competition and they would have to use his Bird Rights.

I want Kyle Lowry, please, even if they have to waive Roddy.

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I'm fine with waiving Roddy but I hope we can do better than Lowry. He's 38 and running on fumes.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm fine with waiving Roddy but I hope we can do better than Lowry. He's 38 and running on fumes.

I'm looking at two point guards that can rotate. If there is someone better than Lowry, I'm fine with it.

 

[Yuma]

Lets talk about this. I seem to recall everyone being excited about drawing Minnesota as we won the season series and supposedly matched up with them better. That was false, of course. This team imploded in the playoffs but I don't think who they faced would have mattered. Drawing OKC, Denver, Clippers, or Mavericks wouldn't have helped.

Having more home games in the playoffs might have helped. Plus being a less deep team our main guys had to play way more minutes at the end of the season than we all thought. I give Minnesota props, but we lost those games because their coaches were way better than our coaches. We could all see we had no viable offensive direction the whole season. Our head coach was a defensive first coach, which was not how this team was built. The organization was definitely NOT on the same page. Maybe Vogel was a placeholder for Bud all along?

 

[Yuma]

I'm fine with waiving Roddy but I hope we can do better than Lowry. He's 38 and running on fumes.

I am skeptical from what I have seen so far. Roddy definitely has a motor. I would say Lowry has way more skills and basketball IQ. Roddy seems like an Ish Wainwright at the guard position. It's kind of a weird skill set. Maybe coach Bud can use him just to junk stuff up on a guard who is on a heater against us?

 

[GatorAZ]

Jerry certainly played a big part in it but he wasn't the only one getting inventive with loopholes to avoid the intent of the rules.

The 90’s were the Wild West which led to the lockout. Highly drafted players could just opt out of their rookie contracts and become unrestricted. Imagine Wemby pulling a C-Webb and opting out after his rookie year or becoming a UFA after 3 years like Duncan.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm looking at two point guards that can rotate. If there is someone better than Lowry, I'm fine with it.

It's looking more and more like we already have our secondary point guard on the roster -- he just happens to be on a two-way. They need to figure out what to do with Roddy though. When the dust settles if there is a point guard out there that is ok being the 15th man and not a 2-way, ok, but if they are able to find a better player at that PF spot, then they gotta do that and let the chips fall where they may when it comes to the PG position.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's looking more and more like we already have our secondary point guard on the roster -- he just happens to be on a two-way. They need to figure out what to do with Roddy though. When the dust settles if there is a point guard out there that is ok being the 15th man and not a 2-way, ok, but if they are able to find a better player at that PF spot, then they gotta do that and let the chips fall where they may when it comes to the PG position.

I agree with this. Suns need to go with the BPA whether it be at point guard or a big man. I do think the Suns may have a serviceable second point guard that is signed, but it remains to be seen.

 

[Yuma]

I agree with this. Suns need to go with the BPA whether it be at point guard or a big man. I do think the Suns may have a serviceable second point guard that is signed, but it remains to be seen.

I am still in on a Little trade if it would get us a fifth starter. Either big PG or PF. Anyone that is slightly better than Oneal and Allen, by having a two way game. We need size on our starting five. We don't need to think it has to be a big name guy.

 

[Chaplin]

I am still in on a Little trade if it would get us a fifth starter. Either big PG or PF. Anyone that is slightly better than Oneal and Allen, by having a two way game. We need size on our starting five. We don't need to think it has to be a big name guy.

How in the world do you figure that Little and the 2031 pick, which are our only decent assets, are worth anything near a "fifth starter?"

 

[Yuma]

How in the world do you figure that Little and the 2031 pick, which are our only decent assets, are worth anything near a "fifth starter?"

Our bar for what we really have as a fifth starter is pretty low. At least I think so. A young tall guy with upside would do if it's the right guy.

 

[Chaplin]

Our bar for what we really have as a fifth starter is pretty low. At least I think so. A young tall guy with upside would do if it's the right guy.

I don't know what your problem is with Grayson Allen. Do you think he's not worth being a starter? And that Little amd the 2031 pick can get someone better??

 

[Yuma]

I don't know what your problem is with Grayson Allen. Do you think he's not worth being a starter? And that Little amd the 2031 pick can get someone better??

Obviously he's great on the offensive end and a willing defender on the defensive end. The top three point shooter. What's not to like. maybe six inches taller would be better?

Royce Oneal, a decent defender, and a willing shooter on the offensive end. What's not to like? Maybe six inches taller would be better for switches, and guarding taller opponents?

I just think a more balanced fifth starter with size would make us a better team. Youth and a high motor would be great! An experienced veteran, ok, too.

I want the team to be better. Don't you?

 

[Chaplin]

Obviously he's great on the offensive end and a willing defender on the defensive end. The top three point shooter. What's not to like. maybe six inches taller would be better?

Royce Oneal, a decent defender, and a willing shooter on the offensive end. What's not to like? Maybe six inches taller would be better for switches, and guarding taller opponents?

I just think a more balanced fifth starter with size would make us a better team. Youth and a high motor would be great! An experienced veteran, ok, too.

I want the team to be better. Don't you?

Of course, but I also want to be realistic on what we are actually able to do. If we have any moves left, they are going to be end of the bench ones.