Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Hoop Head]

This isn't a coaching issue. It's a player and culture issue.

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[BirdGangThing]

looks like a full week til our next game - time to work on a couple bikes in the backyard

 

[95pro]

Kevin Garnett gives his assessment of the Suns.

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Well KG, why comment now, tell us something we didn't already know. Ugh these national "analysts".

 

[Superbone]

This isn't a coaching issue. It's a player and culture issue.

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I don't know how that chart can tell you it's not a coaching issue.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't know how that chart can tell you it's not a coaching issue.

I should have said it's not just a coaching issue. The players are to blame, IMO. Phil Jackson couldn't make this team a contender. We've had 3 former Coach of Year winners here over the last 3 seasons, 2 with championships on their resume. This team is poorly constructed and the players can't be coached to care. We're 5 years too late to have a team of wings and win.

 

[95pro]

I should have said it's not just a coaching issue. The players are to blame, IMO. Phil Jackson couldn't make this team a contender. We've had 3 former Coach of Year winners here over the last 3 seasons, 2 with championships on their resume. This team is poorly constructed and the players can't be coached to care. We're 5 years too late to have a team of wings and win.

Small wings at that.

 

[Hoop Head]

Small wings at that.

I'd call them combo guards instead of wings but we all know they lack the ball handling ability to be labeled as combo guards.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I should have said it's not just a coaching issue. The players are to blame, IMO. Phil Jackson couldn't make this team a contender. We've had 3 former Coach of Year winners here over the last 3 seasons, 2 with championships on their resume. This team is poorly constructed and the players can't be coached to care. We're 5 years too late to have a team of wings and win.

I think it all goes back to the KD trade, we simply didn't have the assets and depth to build a good roster after that deal. And it became even more true when we downgraded our roster even further by trading away our first ever number one pick along with a good young player for an almost unplayable Nurkic and a player with no better than late first round value.

 

[Superbone]

I should have said it's not just a coaching issue. The players are to blame, IMO. Phil Jackson couldn't make this team a contender. We've had 3 former Coach of Year winners here over the last 3 seasons, 2 with championships on their resume. This team is poorly constructed and the players can't be coached to care. We're 5 years too late to have a team of wings and win.

OK, that makes more sense. There is blame all around from coaching to players to front office to owner. If I had to order it:

Owner
FO
Players/Coaching (tie)

 

[Hoop Head]

OK, that makes more sense. There is blame all around from coaching to players to front office to owner. If I had to order it:

Owner
FO
Players/Coaching (tie)

I'd go

FO
Owner
Players
Coach

I was one of the first people on the Vogel hate bandwagon last year so I am trying to give Budenholzer more leeway. Bud has had more success elsewhere than Vogel and I fully believe he's a better coach. No coach will succeed with the mess here though.

I blame JJ more than Ishbia because JJ has shown his lack of foresight for years now. I'm open to blaming Ishbia more but I haven't seen anything that stands out as Ishbia's doing that JJ didn't sign off on. If nothing else JJ's job is keeping Ishbia from sabotaging the team but he seems in line with everything. JJ has had a lot of cover because almost all bad moves were attributed to Sarver with no hesitancy and we're seeing a similar thing under Ishbia. Maybe it's true to a certain extent but JJ is on record discussing how he dislikes the draft and believes being a GM is a 9-5 job. Those two views should disqualify anyone who holds them from being a GM.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I think it all goes back to the KD trade, we simply didn't have the assets and depth to build a good roster after that deal. And it became even more true when we downgraded our roster even further by trading away our first ever number one pick along with a good young player for an almost unplayable Nurkic and a player with no better than late first round value.

we saw how bad our roster was again last night - kd couldn't get a sip of gatorade in - our roster minus the big 3 is probably worst in the league

 

[Phrazbit]

Since the Suns are no fun, I'm curious how you're liking your cruise? I've never taken a "real" one either but plan to. Don't let the Suns affect your fun!

Having a great time! Me and my old college roommates have been getting together once a year for a trip for 15 years now this is the first time we’ve dipped into the seas. Very convenient don’t gotta worry about booking multiple hotel rooms and debating where we’re gonna eat And there’s all kinds of stuff to do.

 

[taz02]

we have the same problem now that we had before the KD trade it's just compounded because of the financial mess and lack of picks.

We keep trying to build around Booker, when we need to be looking for the player to build around.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we have the same problem now that we had before the KD trade it's just compounded because of the financial mess and lack of picks.

We keep trying to build around Booker, when we need to be looking for the player to build around.

THIS X1000.

You have to look at other teams in the West right now ahead of us and ask yourself the question… is Booker better than all of those other team’s number 1 guy so even if we did somehow rebuild around him, would it even matter?

OKC - SGA - Bookers not even close and older.
MEMPHIS - Ja - better than Booker can control entire game. Entire team is also still young.
DEN - Jokic - lol
LA - Doncic - negatory
HOU - Booker is better than anyone they have but they are all so young and only getting better.

Plus, it’s not like Booker is a youngin’ anymore. He’s at the peak of his powers RIGHT NOW and he’s still not able to do anything even with another ALL-NBA guy next to him.

 

[Germz249]

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Is he that bad?

I mean with how bad we are this would somewhat make us better right? We can’t go any lower.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Is he that bad?

I mean with how bad we are this would somewhat make us better right? We can’t go any lower.

maybe - i don't see him being the difference tho

 

[Germz249]

maybe - i don't see him being the difference tho

I am just desperate for something.. I thought he did well with Dallas.. We can’t have a roster like this and be this bad..

Sigh..

 

[Mainstreet]

I am just desperate for something.. I thought he did well with Dallas.. We can’t have a roster like this and be this bad..

Sigh..

If Christian Wood is deemed healthy, I'd kick the tires. On a vet minimum contract, there is not much downside.

 

[Suns_fan69]

If Christian Wood is deemed healthy, I'd kick the tires. On a vet minimum contract, there is not much downside.

He's objectively terrible. He's been given up on by every team that he's been on and is the epitome of an empty stats guy. There's a reason LA is dumping him to sign Alex Len, a 3rd string center on most teams. Phoenix desperately needs 4/5 depth, but Christian Wood is NOT it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's objectively terrible. He's been given up on by every team that he's been on and is the epitome of an empty stats guy. There's a reason LA is dumping him to sign Alex Len, a 3rd string center on most teams. Phoenix desperately needs 4/5 depth, but Christian Wood is NOT it.

He can be, for a short while, then the real CW inevitably shows up.

 

[Finito]

Evan Sidery
@esidery
·
2m


Before Kevin Durant shot down a trade to the Warriors, the Suns were set to receive Jimmy Butler, Jonathan Kuminga, multiple first and second-round picks, plus swaps, per
@ShamsCharania
.Phoenix was prepared to accept the trade before Durant stepped in.

Oh I’m sorry does KD have a no trade clause? Yeah didn’t think so

JJ is joke

 

[Superbone]

Oh I’m sorry does KD have a no trade clause? Yeah didn’t think so

JJ is joke

No, but Warriors aren't going to sign a guy that doesn't want to be with them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh I’m sorry does KD have a no trade clause? Yeah didn’t think so

JJ is joke

You're assuming that we bowed out of the trade, not GS? I don't know who killed the deal but if I were the Warriors there's not a chance in hell I'd give up assets to get KD if he didn't want to be there. Maybe JJ is a joke but I highly doubt he's the problem on this one.

 

[Raindog]

I blame JJ more than Ishbia because JJ has shown his lack of foresight for years now. I'm open to blaming Ishbia more but I haven't seen anything that stands out as Ishbia's doing that JJ didn't sign off on. If nothing else JJ's job is keeping Ishbia from sabotaging the team but he seems in line with everything. JJ has had a lot of cover because almost all bad moves were attributed to Sarver with no hesitancy and we're seeing a similar thing under Ishbia. Maybe it's true to a certain extent but JJ is on record discussing how he dislikes the draft and believes being a GM is a 9-5 job. Those two views should disqualify anyone who holds them from being a GM.

Agree 100% about Jones. He got way too much credit for success with a team that was mostly built by McDonough. Not that McDonough was any great shakes either because he did as much foolish stuff as good, but he did largely put the pieces in place that fueled the team's brief renaissance.

The few things that happened under Jones watch that improved the team either had little to do with him directly (CP essentially forcing his way here), were mostly engineered by someone else (drafting Cam J.), or were dumb luck (the bungled Ariza trade that eventually brought Oubre). I guess you could argue that he brought in Monty, which lead to CP coming here, but again that seemed more like happenstance than anything Jones foresaw.

And the two overriding flaws with the Suns over the tenure of Jones - the eternally unbalanced roster and the blowing off of drafts, seem pretty much consistent with Jones' stated preferences and philosophy, and even pre-date Ishbia's control or input.

 

[Phrazbit]

THIS X1000.

You have to look at other teams in the West right now ahead of us and ask yourself the question… is Booker better than all of those other team’s number 1 guy so even if we did somehow rebuild around him, would it even matter?

OKC - SGA - Bookers not even close and older.
MEMPHIS - Ja - better than Booker can control entire game. Entire team is also still young.
DEN - Jokic - lol
LA - Doncic - negatory
HOU - Booker is better than anyone they have but they are all so young and only getting better.

Plus, it’s not like Booker is a youngin’ anymore. He’s at the peak of his powers RIGHT NOW and he’s still not able to do anything even with another ALL-NBA guy next to him.

No. Desperate flailing for a “superstar” is how we got ourselves into this mess.

Booker is not any of those guys, but neither is Tatum, neither is Mitchell.

We needed patience. Not gutting one of the best teams over the previous few years for a 35 year old cancer because he was supposedly a “number one guy”.

I really hate the obsession with “number one” “number two” guy nonsense. Build a good team with talented players who compliment each other.

Sure, like 4 teams have a mega superstar and it makes a clear pecking order. But if you are going to continually either tank for stars or gut your team for them you’re probably going to be terrible.

If Tatum were stuck on a stupid team like the kings (or us) he’d be viewed as a tweener who can’t get over the hump.