Suns are headed for chemistry problems

[mojorizen7]

The worst possible thing that could happen to this team is to be just good enough to squeak into the playoffs or just mediocre enough to barely miss them. Both places are No-mans land for an aging team like this one.

Well thats how this team has been deliberately constructed.

The Suns need a game-changer in the draft.

Most definately,but mediocre-playoff-appearance-land is enough to keep the foam fingers flying high downtown it would seem.

Unless this team defies all reasonable expectations and keeps pace with the top of the WC, I wish they'd just stop pretending and trade the best talent on the team.

They should go that route regardless of where they end up. Same goes for last season too though,before we were blessed with catching lightening in a bottle. Funny how the FO got re-wired instead of the roster.

 

[Chaplin]

Keep in mind that there will probably be a strike next season. That's got to be a concern not only for our front office, but for opposing teams as well.

 

[Irish]

I tend toward Chaplin's perspective. This team does not look exceptioanlly WORSE than it did last year at this teim. Was last season's success entirely due to Amare?

To be successful this season, at least a few things will have to exceed general expectations.

1. SUNS GET IN CONDITION TO PLAY TOP SPEED FOR 48 MINUTESS EVERY GAME. Clearly they are not there yet, but they have the depth if Gentry can get them to buy into it. Last season this didn't happen until February.

2. SUNS REDISCOVER THEIR SHOOTING TOUCH. Since outside shooting is heavily dependent on leg strength, we won't know for a few weeks if they can get their touch back.

3. SUNS COMMIT TO GANG REBOUNDING. Since they will be smaller than most opponents, they will have to get every loose ball and block out opponents. If they don't, it will be a long season.

4. SUNS WILL HAVE TO BECOME FAR QUICKER IN THEIR DEFENSIVE ROTATIONS. Even in the era of D'Antoni's "offense only" approach the Suns did OK in their initial defense but fail badly in defensive rebounds and rotations. This becomes doubly important when fronting opposing big men.

5. SUNS PLAYERS WILL HAVE TO ATTACK THE BASKET. Without the classic Nash to Stoudemire pick and roll, the Suns other players will have to pick up the slack and go to the basket.

It is not inevitable that everyone will buy into the Suns system, but that is Gentry's challenge. If Gentry can get everyone to buy into his approach, the team could surprise. It's fine to bet against it, but I'm not ready to give up on Gentry just yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I tend toward Chaplin's perspective. This team does not look exceptioanlly WORSE than it did last year at this teim. Was last season's success entirely due to Amare?

I don't think it was entirely due to Amare, but he and Lopez finally being on the court together was the biggest part of it IMO. People seem to forget that in the first half of the season, with a somewhat listless Amare (listless still averaging 21 and 8) this team was hovering around .500 before Lopez was inserted into the starting lineup and God shoved a lightning bolt up Amare's butt to make him start playing like the 2nd best player in the league, averaging 29 and 9 and going on an insane 35-9 run. There's no possibility of any player making that kind of impact this year which is why people's expectations are pretty low.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think it was entirely due to Amare, but he and Lopez finally being on the court together was the biggest part of it IMO. People seem to forget that in the first half of the season, with a somewhat listless Amare (listless still averaging 21 and 8) this team was hovering around .500 before Lopez was inserted into the starting lineup and God shoved a lightning bolt up Amare's butt to make him start playing like the 2nd best player in the league, averaging 29 and 9 and going on an insane 35-9 run. There's no possibility of any player making that kind of impact this year which is why people's expectations are pretty low.

Remember that Amare's really good playing leading up to the playoffs was WITHOUT Robin, who was out with back problems.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Remember that Amare's really good playing leading up to the playoffs was WITHOUT Robin, who was out with back problems.

really? I remember his numbers slightly going down from the astronimical numbers he was putting up once Robin went out... but even if that wasn't the case, remembering that doesn't change the fact that this team has no one who can dominate the way Amare did as he lead the Suns revival out of the western conference playoffs basement up close to the penthouse and it was that level of play that was the biggest reason we were where we were at the end of the regular season.

 

[Chaplin]

really? I remember his numbers slightly going down from the astronimical numbers he was putting up once Robin went out... but even if that wasn't the case, remembering that doesn't change the fact that this team has no one who can dominate the way Amare did as he lead the Suns revival out of the western conference playoffs basement up close to the penthouse and it was that level of play that was the biggest reason we were where we were at the end of the regular season.

Oh I agree, he was pretty incredible the last few months of the season--arguably the best player in the league at that time.

I guess the problem was that there was no reason to expect he would continue that--and of course in the playoffs he didn't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh I agree, he was pretty incredible the last few months of the season--arguably the best player in the league at that time.

I guess the problem was that there was no reason to expect he would continue that--and of course in the playoffs he didn't.

i don't think that a problem... i'm not saying we should have resigned him. I'm saying the reason we won't be very good this season is because we won't have anyone be able to carry us the way he did, which basically means we're looking at going back to that hovering around .500 team... except worse because a straight up Hedo for Amare trade at PF is a downgrade no matter how you slice it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Remember that Amare's really good playing leading up to the playoffs was WITHOUT Robin, who was out with back problems.

Amare still played fairly well down the stretch but his rebound numbers definitely took a dip. We were lucky last year in that we closed with a very favorable schedule that also benefitted from opposing teams injuries. It made the loss of Lopez much more survivable and in fact, we improved our playoff position without him.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

i don't think that a problem... i'm not saying we should have resigned him. I'm saying the reason we won't be very good this season is because we won't have anyone be able to carry us the way he did, which basically means we're looking at going back to that hovering around .500 team... except worse because a straight up Hedo for Amare trade at PF is a downgrade no matter how you slice it.

I think looking at it as a Hedo for Amare straight up swap isn't realistic. It's gotta be Amare and Barbosa for Hedo, Warrick, Childress--not as uneven as you make it out to be, IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think looking at it as a Hedo for Amare straight up swap isn't realistic. It's gotta be Amare and Barbosa for Hedo, Warrick, Childress--not as uneven as you make it out to be, IMO.

I think it is. Look, the biggest reason we went on a tear was because Amare went nuts, agreed? If someone proposed that as a trade in the off-season, straight up value, you'd say the Suns got WORKED, stuck with a bad contract and did nothing to alleviate the loss inside of Amare... or at least I would.

Warrick is worthless IMO, Childress is redundant with the rest of the 47 small forwards we have and Hedo is going to be playing way out of position without a humungous big man next to him like he had in Orlando.

 

[Chaplin]

Warrick is worthless IMO, Childress is redundant with the rest of the 47 small forwards we have and Hedo is going to be playing way out of position without a humungous big man next to him like he had in Orlando.

Sounds like you haven't seen any preseason. Warrick has been solid and Childress has been our best player.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it is. Look, the biggest reason we went on a tear was because Amare went nuts, agreed? If someone proposed that as a trade in the off-season, straight up value, you'd say the Suns got WORKED, stuck with a bad contract and did nothing to alleviate the loss inside of Amare... or at least I would.

Warrick is worthless IMO, Childress is redundant with the rest of the 47 small forwards we have and Hedo is going to be playing way out of position without a humungous big man next to him like he had in Orlando.

I'll say again, this Suns team is made to trade for a big man before the trading deadline. The Suns will likely package some reasonable contracts and picks to a team that is going nowhere. Hence, the Suns being redundant. Sarver was talking in this vein when he was taking about how to acquire another legitimate big man.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sounds like you haven't seen any preseason. Warrick has been solid and Childress has been our best player.

that's great and all but it's pre-season where starters have played about 15 minutes per, and even with that being said, we played the Mavs without Dirk for out lone win, lost by 50 in another game and have generally looked unimpressive on the whole. When Warrick does anything in the regular season for the first time in his career, let me know. As to Childress, he's a nice player... but we already had nice wing-players.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll say again, this Suns team is made to trade for a big man before the trading deadline. The Suns will likely package some reasonable contracts and picks to a team that is going nowhere. Hence, the Suns being redundant. Sarver was talking in this vein when he was taking about how to acquire another legitimate big man.

it's easy to say this but... what guys are they going to trade? Who wants to pick up Warrick at 4 million bones for the next four years or Frye at 6 for the next 4 years? Why are people going to take our redundant cast-offs (with LOTS of years on everyone's contracts) for their big-league Big Man? And which big-league Big Men are in the last year of their deal which will make the team their on desperate to deal? There have to be guys available for this to happen and there's no one about to hit FA next year, nor can I think of other disgruntled big men out there right now who would start pushing for a trade.

The only bargaining chip we have is Richardson's expiring. That's what teams look for... expiring and picks. Now if Childress can play the 2, then great, maybe Richardson is that chip along with some picks, but still, there has to be a big man out there about to hit FA or a guy who's very disgruntled to make this happen. Do you know of any guys in that situation going into the season or guys who could eventually get disgruntled like that? I sure don't see anyone, not after the entire league basically switched teams this off-season.

 

[SunsTzu]

Do you know of any guys in that situation going into the season or guys who could eventually get disgruntled like that? I sure don't see anyone, not after the entire league basically switched teams this off-season.

While not disgruntled Kirilenko for Richardson makes some sense. While not a true big i think he could play the 4 effectively, or at least more effectively than other options on the roster. Fills a need for the Jazz and saves them about 6mil overall.

Troy Murphy may become available as well if Favors progresses but not surprisingly there doesn't seem to be many good bigs available. Best case would be Hawks feeling the need to move one of Horford or Smith.

I'd be just to get a guy like Brandon Bass.

 

[Gaddabout]

Guys, as much as I did not want to keep Amare for max dollars, his absence does create a huge hole on this team in a Xs and Os kind of way. It changes everything because Amare's presence in the middle freed up shooters on the outside. That was the system under D'Antoni and that was the system under Gentry.

The Suns simply do not have anyone like that, so the offense will have to change. I don't care how many ways we can sit here and discuss talent for talent exchanges. It wasn't as much as what Amare brought to the table as an overall talent as much as what Amare brought to the scheme as a prolific scoring big man in the paint.

Hedo can't replace that. The shooters are going to see defenders in their face because no one will have to double down in the paint. That's only going to hurt offensive production.

 

[Folster]

I don't get all the Warrick hate. The guy has looked really good in limited time. If he gets some solid floor time with Nash, I think you'll see how dynamic he can be. Lamenting over his $4 million contract which is less than the MLE is ridiculous. I know Suns fans are used to contracts that are either max or min, but the NBA does have a middle class, and Warrick, Frye, and Childress are in that category. It's unrealistic to think that players either make $20 million per year or play for peanuts.

The Suns are acquiring assets, reasonably priced assets that are easy to package for large contracts. You can't make trades with only max and vet min players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't get all the Warrick hate. The guy has looked really good in limited time. If he gets some solid floor time with Nash, I think you'll see how dynamic he can be. Lamenting over his $4 million contract which is less than the MLE is ridiculous. I know Suns fans are used to contracts that are either max or min, but the NBA does have a middle class, and Warrick, Frye, and Childress are in that category. It's unrealistic to think that players either make $20 million per year or play for peanuts.

The Suns are acquiring assets, reasonably priced assets that are easy to package for large contracts. You can't make trades with only max and vet min players.

Sometimes I look at this roster and I can almost see reason for hope. IF we were to trade Richardson and believe it or not, Nash, for the right pieces I'd feel a lot better about this squad. I like Childress and think he's too good to be coming off the bench but I also think he's a horrible match with a Nash led offense. I also think Hedo loses some effectiveness in this type of team.

Acquire defensive minded backups at the 1 and the 5 and I think this team could become an effective traditional style team. Dragic, Childress, Hedo, Warrick/Frye and Lopez would have a chance to become a strong starting unit. We might be a little light in the clutch scoring department but hopefully Goran could grow into that role.

It's not an ideal team but if you're going to play without a true superstar, it's not bad. I guess this might also work without the trades if Nash and Richardson were willing to come off the bench. A backup squad of Nash, Richardson, Hill, Frye and Lawal might be interesting. Especially if this kept Steve's minutes to 24 or so per game.

OTOH, this might all be the result of too much sugar. My wife bought the Halloween candy too early this year and I'm a sucker for Almond Joy bars. Yes, I do believe I'm going to blame this post on high blood sugar.

Steve

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The Suns are easily the best team in Phoenix right now and it's hard to not get sidetracked by how bad all the other teams are.

The Coyotes are the best team in Phoenix right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

While not disgruntled Kirilenko for Richardson makes some sense. While not a true big i think he could play the 4 effectively, or at least more effectively than other options on the roster. Fills a need for the Jazz and saves them about 6mil overall.

Troy Murphy may become available as well if Favors progresses but not surprisingly there doesn't seem to be many good bigs available. Best case would be Hawks feeling the need to move one of Horford or Smith.

Smith the only guy I could think of... and to be honest, he'd probably be a GREAT fit. If Childress could shoot well enough to play the 2, a lineup of:

Nash
Childress
Hedo
Josh Smith
Lopez

Not only does that team have size, but it can run, is pretty athletic AND can shoot the 3. Still, with a solid bench with Frye, Hill, Goran and Duds.

I guess if the Hawks go down the poop-shoot that could happen. Any other ideas out there that can give me hope here?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't get all the Warrick hate. The guy has looked really good in limited time. If he gets some solid floor time with Nash, I think you'll see how dynamic he can be. Lamenting over his $4 million contract which is less than the MLE is ridiculous.

Just saying, that contract with four years on it isn't attractive to anyone looking to probably get expirings and picks back. Same with Frye and Childress.

I know Suns fans are used to contracts that are either max or min, but the NBA does have a middle class, and Warrick, Frye, and Childress are in that category. It's unrealistic to think that players either make $20 million per year or play for peanuts.

The Suns are acquiring assets, reasonably priced assets that are easy to package for large contracts. You can't make trades with only max and vet min players.

no, you can't, but most trades for disgruntled players aren't for "reasonably priced assets", they're for cap room, salary relief and picks and the only guy we have like that is a key part of the team in Richardson.

I mean, tell me the last time you saw a bunch of reasonably priced assets with long term contracts traded for a stud?

 

[Folster]

You make valid points. While not a stud, we acquired J Rich and Dudley for Diaw and Bell who were both fairly reasonable priced contracts although Diaw's contact stretches the definition of reasonable. The mid level contracts that we do have are excellent filler contract to combine with picks and rookie scale contracts to add up to a max player amt.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You make valid points. While not a stud, we acquired J Rich and Dudley for Diaw and Bell who were both fairly reasonable priced contracts although Diaw's contact stretches the definition of reasonable.

if only there were more Michael Jordan's running the league!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

if only there were more Michael Jordan's running the league!

And if we only had Kerr still running things...