Suns are headed for chemistry problems

[SirStefan32]

Smith the only guy I could think of... and to be honest, he'd probably be a GREAT fit. If Childress could shoot well enough to play the 2, a lineup of:

Nash
Childress
Hedo
Josh Smith
Lopez

Not only does that team have size, but it can run, is pretty athletic AND can shoot the 3. Still, with a solid bench with Frye, Hill, Goran and Duds.

I guess if the Hawks go down the poop-shoot that could happen. Any other ideas out there that can give me hope here?

Al Horford

 

[Irish]

Al Horford

I can see Al being a target for free agency "sign and trade" rather than expiring contracts.

 

[JCSunsfan]

bump

I was right. It's still a problem. E en Gentry has publicly admitted it.

 

[Covert Rain]

bump

I was right. It's still a problem. E en Gentry has publicly admitted it.

Yes and he also said it's because of all the moving pieces on the team. I would be worried if this team was together all year and had chemistry problems. That would be a reason to be worried.

Not to mention he also said that he has been searching for players that perform on a more consistent basis so players minutes have been in flux especially off the bench.

It's expected IMO. Now after the trade, if some of the new guys bring more consistency, I expect things to settle down.

 

[AzStevenCal]

bump

I was right. It's still a problem. E en Gentry has publicly admitted it.

I'd agree that chemistry is a bit of an issue but I'd say our biggest problem is something else. Our biggest problem is simply a lack of talent. This is still a superstar's league and while we have some name players, we're sadly lacking in that area. Nash, on offense, can almost play to that level occasionally but he can't sustain it and his defense is worse than ever.

I still like our recent trade but honestly, I don't see a quick fix for our problems. Even with great chemistry, we'd just barely be in the struggle for a playoff spot. Unless we can work a miracle (pick up 4 or 5 unprotected first round picks for Nash, Hill and Carter for example) we'll be mired in mediocrity for years to come. Fortunately, I believe in miracles.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree, we need a superstar.

There are only two superstar type players on the block. 'Melo and Igoudala. We have 0 chance of getting 'Melo, we could possibly get Igoudala but it would have to be a 3 team trade and we would likely have to lose Nash & Hill which would help us get a lot younger.

 

[Trifecta]

I agree, we need a superstar.

There are only two superstar type players on the block. 'Melo and Igoudala. We have 0 chance of getting 'Melo, we could possibly get Igoudala but it would have to be a 3 team trade and we would likely have to lose Nash & Hill which would help us get a lot younger.

My feeling is the Suns will never allow Nash to be traded to bring back a guy we could have drafted ourselves a few years ago if Sarver wasn't so cheap. I'm not sure about Iggy anyways.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree, we need a superstar.

There are only two superstar type players on the block. 'Melo and Igoudala. We have 0 chance of getting 'Melo, we could possibly get Igoudala but it would have to be a 3 team trade and we would likely have to lose Nash & Hill which would help us get a lot younger.

Igoudala is a complementary player. He's not the kind of guy you can build around, IMO. To compete for a championship you probably need 2 guys on your team that are better than him. I want to see us get younger but I don't want to lose Nash and Hill simply to get younger. We need pieces for the future - draft picks or players that are still early in their development.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I want to see us get younger but I don't want to lose Nash and Hill simply to get younger. We need pieces for the future - draft picks or players that are still early in their development.

This is what I have been saying all along. Since the Suns are fairly low in tradeable assets, the best way for them to get pieces for the future is probably to wait.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is what I have been saying all along. Since the Suns are fairly low in tradeable assets, the best way for them to get pieces for the future is probably to wait.

Actually, it's pretty much what I've been saying all along also. I don't want to trade them merely for the sake of trading them. I want to receive assets in return. The line between us on this subject seems to be that I think we might actually be able to get real assets in return and you're convinced we can't. In case it isn't clear though, I'll add I'm not at all confident in my position. And, unlike some, I'm also not blind to the fact that we go from mediocre to horrible the day we lose Nash (and to a lesser extent, Hill).

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree, we need a superstar.

Igoudala.

Iggy a superstar!!! Talk about losing all credibility in one post. He's a borderline all star with an albatross contract.

 

[elindholm]

The line between us on this subject seems to be that I think we might actually be able to get real assets in return and you're convinced we can't.

Fair enough. My feeling about Nash is, he's useless to a non-contending team, but he's also already shown that he's somewhat of a liability as you go deep in the playoffs, because he can't defend and doesn't respond well to the more "physical" play that characterizes the postseason. (Translation: His game is predicated on the officials actually calling obvious fouls.)

So the only team that might want him is one that could see him as a "missing piece" role player. Not only is such a team difficult to identify (Orlando was, I guess, the best candidate, but they just overhauled their roster to add scorers), but it wouldn't have anything the Suns want.

And, unlike some, I'm also not blind to the fact that we go from mediocre to horrible the day we lose Nash (and to a lesser extent, Hill).

Yeah, anyone who's unclear on that point just need to study how the Suns look when Nash is on the bench. In a word, they're awful.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah, anyone who's unclear on that point just need to study how the Suns look when Nash is on the bench. In a word, they're awful.

VC might help when Nash is out. He's the type of guy that can go 1 on 5 and get a decent shot or a trip to the line. He's not the player he once was but we don't need him to do it for 35 minutes.

 

[Chaplin]

Iggy a superstar!!! Talk about losing all credibility in one post. He's a borderline all star with an albatross contract.

What about Troy Murphy? :superstar:

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fair enough. My feeling about Nash is, he's useless to a non-contending team, but he's also already shown that he's somewhat of a liability as you go deep in the playoffs, because he can't defend and doesn't respond well to the more "physical" play that characterizes the postseason. (Translation: His game is predicated on the officials actually calling obvious fouls.)

So the only team that might want him is one that could see him as a "missing piece" role player. Not only is such a team difficult to identify (Orlando was, I guess, the best candidate, but they just overhauled their roster to add scorers), but it wouldn't have anything the Suns want.

You're definitely right about his declining play when faced with physical opponents. He's ten times the player that Derek Fisher is but as the playoffs progress, Derek ends up being at least as effective as Nash is. I'm sure there are some idiots that are convinced it's just Derek stepping up his game in the postseason but the truth is there in black and white (stripes) for all to see.

You're probably right about him only having real value as a missing piece role player for a contender. I'd only offer New York and Toronto as possible exceptions and even then, it would only start to make sense if they had reason to believe that basketball would be played next season. It's hard to justify giving up anything of value for just a few months unless a championship is truly on the line.

Talent-wise, New York would be the perfect spot for him. He wouldn't put them over the top but they become a near playoff lock with him there. They could keep his minutes in the low 20 to 25 range and we all know he fits Mike's style. It's a long shot though as they're probably saving up for a Melo deal. He wouldn't make Toronto a contender either but they need help filling their arena even more than we do.

Okay, so the odds are, we won't find a partner but I didn't think we could move Hedo without giving away a lot either. Faced with the reality that is "our Phoenix Suns", I see nothing wrong with a little fantasy.

Steve

 

[AfroSuns]

Iggy a superstar!!! Talk about losing all credibility in one post. He's a borderline all star with an albatross contract.

What about Troy Murphy? :superstar:

Yep, they are superstars in someone's NBA2k11

 

[sunsfan88]

Iggy a superstar!!! Talk about losing all credibility in one post. He's a borderline all star with an albatross contract.

Well he's the next closest thing to a superstar then. And the only one that's on the trade block.

Only the Suns are dumb enough to let theirs (Amare) leave their team.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Well he's the next closest thing to a superstar then.

No, he's not. He's a great #3 on a good team, and a weak #2. He's as much of a superstar as a Jason Richardson is. Not close.

And the only one that's on the trade block.

Of course he is. Sadly, (for the 6ers) nobody is willing to take on his crap contract, one in a tradition of terrible contracts that have hampered the team for years.

 

[sunsfan88]

We need a go to scorer type player. Igoudala can do that in our system I think. We can turn him into an big time player.

Plus he's a great defender and would help us with that.

Yea contract wise, his is pretty bad. That's why we should only trade for him if everything else fails.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We need a go to scorer type player. Igoudala can do that in our system I think. We can turn him into an big time player.

Plus he's a great defender and would help us with that.

Yea contract wise, his is pretty bad. That's why we should only trade for him if everything else fails.

You couldn't be more wrong on this. Bad contract, mediocre player, and at a position that is the least of our worries. We should never trade for him, period.

 

[mojorizen7]

And, unlike some, I'm also not blind to the fact that we go from mediocre to horrible the day we lose Nash (and to a lesser extent, Hill).

Steve

Well yes of course,especially if the SUNS/Gentry tries to run the same offense/system.
Nash IS the system. It would be quite stupid to trade Nash next week and then pretend that we dont have to change up the philosophy.
There's a difference between the SUNS struggling when Nash misses games vs how the SUNS might play in the event that Nash is gone for good.

Would the Suns be a better team this year if Nash retired tomorrow?....No,of course not,but realistically we would be that much better defensively at the point of attack. Gentry would have to rewire the offensive philosophy in order to win some games and shorten the game.

 

[sunsfan88]

You couldn't be more wrong on this. Bad contract, mediocre player, and at a position that is the least of our worries. We should never trade for him, period.

You don't see him the same way I do.

I have followed his game since the 06 season and yes I do believe he can significantly add to this team.

Unfortunately for him, Collins is his coach and their all about defense now so he hasn't really got a chance this season.

And don't think that I'm the only person who has noticed Igoudala and his game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Knicks-have-two-Plan-Bs?urn=nba-299220

 

[AzStevenCal]

You don't see him the same way I do.

I have followed his game since the 06 season and yes I do believe he can significantly add to this team.

Unfortunately for him, Collins is his coach and their all about defense now so he hasn't really got a chance this season.

And don't think that I'm the only person who has noticed Igoudala and his game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Knicks-have-two-Plan-Bs?urn=nba-299220

I've been aware of him and occasionally followed his game since before he signed a letter of intent to play for Nolan Richardson at Arkansas. He's an exceptional athlete and he does a lot of things pretty well. He's just not great at anything though and his outside shot disappears for long stretches.

He's a complementary player who is getting paid like a first tier superstar. Adding him to the Knicks roster might make sense because of their incredibly deep pockets but the only reason you bring him to Phoenix is if you think the hole we've dug isn't deep enough yet.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well yes of course,especially if the SUNS/Gentry tries to run the same offense/system.
Nash IS the system. It would be quite stupid to trade Nash next week and then pretend that we dont have to change up the philosophy.
There's a difference between the SUNS struggling when Nash misses games vs how the SUNS might play in the event that Nash is gone for good.

Would the Suns be a better team this year if Nash retired tomorrow?....No,of course not,but realistically we would be that much better defensively at the point of attack. Gentry would have to rewire the offensive philosophy in order to win some games and shorten the game.

Which we'd pretty much be forced to do if we made an in-season trade. It made a lot more sense to move him during the off season. Now, although I remain in favor of moving him for a decent deal, I'm much less certain it's the right idea. I can't escape this feeling that we've reached a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" point with this team and Steve Nash.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

the only reason you bring him to Phoenix is if you think the hole we've dug isn't deep enough yet.

While we're at it, maybe we should be looking into re-acquiring Hedo...I just don't think he got a fair shake here! Shard Lewis is really good too!