Suns at Dallas 12/5/14

[ProdigalSun]

So with Mason Plumlee out of the equation with the Nets, I hope the Suns go after him.

Maybe Miles would play better too if his brother were here!

 

[ProdigalSun]

Just finished watching the game on DVR. I think that is the best the Suns have looked this. I think the points about IT being injured allowing Bledsoe and Dragic to find their roles again is pretty spot on...they have both looked much better lately

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just finished watching the game on DVR. I think that is the best the Suns have looked this. I think the points about IT being injured allowing Bledsoe and Dragic to find their roles again is pretty spot on...they have both looked much better lately

Yeah they've started to look a lot like they did last season. I've seen a lot of speculation that IT is sitting out to avoid injury so that we can trade him in the middle of this month. I don't know if that's the case but I guess it wouldn't shock me.

I don't know if Monroe would agree to the deal but for a partial season rental he'd be intriguing. He'd have to approve the deal but if SVG is really unhappy with him (and it appears he is) it might be in his best interest to leave even though we won't be the long term answer for him.

I'd much rather get a defensive big man but it would be nice to have a center that can score down low. It might even do him some good financially as he should pair well with Goran in the pick and roll. Putting up numbers on a winning team has to be a much bigger draw than doing it for a cellar dweller.

Steve

 

[marios13]

Reading this thread has been almost more entertaining than watching the game.

Bledsoe camp is being lead by Slin Slin IMO
then Phrazbit

AZStevenCal and SirStefan balance each other out ...
they each have their own favorite, but try to rationalize their thinking and don't get personal without provocation.

and then there is Sci Fi the leader of Dragic camp

and the rest of us just go LoL, ROFL ...

Keep up the good work clowns makes reading threads more interesting ...
... AzSteven and SirStefan excluded the clowns comment is not meant for you ...

Those are my thoughts about the thread as for the players
Bledsoe and Dragic both have their faults, but I do think both of them can reach All NBA.

 

[Mainstreet]

You misunderstand me and my motives.

May I give you some friendly advice for what it is worth. The Suns forum does need new blood as AzStevenCal has said. Your opinions would be welcomed if you tone it down. Please just enjoy posting, expressing your opinions and respecting others for their point of view. This is the best Suns forum around. What does it matter if you feel you have good opinions but there is no one to share them with? Posting should be for the fun of it. No one wins in a discussion. Just enjoy the experience and talk about the team and players. No need to try to win every idea. It's not like we are running the Suns.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah they've started to look a lot like they did last season. I've seen a lot of speculation that IT is sitting out to avoid injury so that we can trade him in the middle of this month. I don't know if that's the case but I guess it wouldn't shock me.

I don't know if Monroe would agree to the deal but for a partial season rental he'd be intriguing. He'd have to approve the deal but if SVG is really unhappy with him (and it appears he is) it might be in his best interest to leave even though we won't be the long term answer for him.

I'd much rather get a defensive big man but it would be nice to have a center that can score down low. It might even do him some good financially as he should pair well with Goran in the pick and roll. Putting up numbers on a winning team has to be a much bigger draw than doing it for a cellar dweller.

Steve

It certainly is looking like the chemistry is better with IT out. Last night was the way the 2 pg system was supposed to work in my mind. Goran as the main scorer and distributor. Bledsoe as a close second in those categories but focused on defending the other team's primary backcourt offensive threat.

IT being out is allowing that chemistry to develop. Our choices now are to work him in gradually or trade him. McD probably signed him as insurance in case BLEDSOE left. I am fine with either direction as long as his backup role is clear.

 

[95pro]

Yeah they've started to look a lot like they did last season. I've seen a lot of speculation that IT is sitting out to avoid injury so that we can trade him in the middle of this month. I don't know if that's the case but I guess it wouldn't shock me.

I don't know if Monroe would agree to the deal but for a partial season rental he'd be intriguing. He'd have to approve the deal but if SVG is really unhappy with him (and it appears he is) it might be in his best interest to leave even though we won't be the long term answer for him.

I'd much rather get a defensive big man but it would be nice to have a center that can score down low. It might even do him some good financially as he should pair well with Goran in the pick and roll. Putting up numbers on a winning team has to be a much bigger draw than doing it for a cellar dweller.

Steve

At this Point with Plumlees lack of development, Monroe sounds intriguing.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yeah they've started to look a lot like they did last season. I've seen a lot of speculation that IT is sitting out to avoid injury so that we can trade him in the middle of this month. I don't know if that's the case but I guess it wouldn't shock me.

I think IT's trade value would be low when teams look and see that he's labeled as injured and isn't even playing in games. I don't think that's why he's sitting out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think IT's trade value would be low when teams look and see that he's labeled as injured and isn't even playing in games. I don't think that's why he's sitting out.

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm talking about the speculation that the trade is already agreed upon and that we are holding him out so the deal can't fall apart because of injury. I don't know if I believe it either but it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. It seems a bit strange that he would immediately go down right after voicing his frustration that it's always him that has to sit out no matter how well he's playing.

Steve

 

[BC867]

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm talking about the speculation that the trade is already agreed upon and that we are holding him out so the deal can't fall apart because of injury. I don't know if I believe it either but it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. It seems a bit strange that he would immediately go down right after voicing his frustration that it's always him that has to sit out no matter how well he's playing.

Steve

I agree with that possibility. You know that I felt from the start that IT was brought here as insurance for Bledsoe signing elsewhere.

Once Eric signed here, Thomas became part of a 3 star Point Guard, rather than 2 Star Point Guard, arrangement. How can the Suns possibly hope to keep the three happy in that arrangement?

If a trade hasn't already been agreed upon, I would hope that one will be.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with that possibility. You know that I felt from the start that IT was brought here as insurance for Bledsoe signing elsewhere.

Once Eric signed here, Thomas became part of a 3 star Point Guard, rather than 2 Star Point Guard, arrangement. How can the Suns possibly hope to keep the three happy in that arrangement?

If a trade hasn't already been agreed upon, I would hope that one will be.

Well, BC. I think I finally agree with you on something. It is very likely that IT was brought here as an insurance policy for Bledsoe (maybe even for the possibility of losing Goran). I like it that we have GM that is thinking ahead.

It is possible that there is a trade already in the works. I would like to think that. Who were the runners up for IT in free agency. I would think Dallas, the Lakers, maybe Orlando. It could be any team looking for scoring and pg play. I would hate to trade him to Dallas, since they are our major obstacle to the playoffs. Anyway. Let the speculation begin. When will he be eligible to be traded?

 

[KloD]

Obviously just my opinion, but I believe IT was signed because his contract is an asset and very good value. I don't believe it had much to do with who is currently on the roster. I don't believe that's how this front office works. They want to collect good assets no matter a position of need or not. That said, I don't believe any of the 3 PG's are more likely to be traded than the others. I think management will trade the one that brings the best value in return. Folks seem to think they are shopping IT. I don't think the Suns have to shop any of the 3. Other teams are calling, this I'm pretty confident of. If Dragic brings a front court player of significant value, he's gone. I think it's equally the same for the other 2.

To add, I think too much is made of what the front office says to the media. Of course they are going to say a 3 PG rotation is their plan. Of course they are going to claim it's what they want. They are not going to say anything to diminish the value of anyone on the team and make claims of wanting to move any of them. They have to make it seem that all of them have great value to the team. So to get upset over this "plan" seems silly to me. No matter who is on the team, it's always publicly going to be "the plan".

I think by the end of next off season we will see changes to the roster through a trade of two. They know what they are doing and IMO they are doing a great job of building the team. I pay no attention to what they say to the media and pubic as it's just spin and misdirection.

 

[AfroSuns]

^^^^^^ No one is untouchable but Dragic would be the last of the PG to be considered in a trade. Sarver pretty much said he is not going to let him go again when he was re-signed. Now if a good big man becomes available, it'd be hard to not consider him but i highly doubt they will trade him for the likes of Monroe especially when Len is showing signs of improvement

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think IT is the most likely. He has a very lucrative (for other teams) 3 year deal. He is a proven 20 point scorer, energy, instant offense. That is always a commodity in the NBA. Bledsoe is the least likely. His combo of offense and defense is quite valuable. But that does not mean any of them is untradeable. Dragic is least likely because of his contract situation. Teams do not want to give up assets for a player that could walk next summer.

So, its likely IT.

 

[sunsfan88]

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm talking about the speculation that the trade is already agreed upon and that we are holding him out so the deal can't fall apart because of injury. I don't know if I believe it either but it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. It seems a bit strange that he would immediately go down right after voicing his frustration that it's always him that has to sit out no matter how well he's playing.

Steve

Oh ok I get it now.

If we can trade IT and pick up a good defensive/rebounding big man (ex Asik) then I think we have a very good shot at making playoffs even in the West.

 

[Superbone]

Kieff is playing solidly. 22 & 10. Steve Albert actually made a good observation about him tonight. "He's 6'10", but he doesn't look it because he's so thin."

With a trend of Kieff playing Center in 4th quarters (and Mook at Power Forward), that will catch up with us. I hope the coaching staff anticipates that. But credit goes to Kieff for producing right now.

+1

 

[Phrazbit]

Reading this thread has been almost more entertaining than watching the game.

Bledsoe camp is being lead by Slin Slin IMO
then Phrazbit

AZStevenCal and SirStefan balance each other out ...
they each have their own favorite, but try to rationalize their thinking and don't get personal without provocation.

and then there is Sci Fi the leader of Dragic camp

and the rest of us just go LoL, ROFL ...

Keep up the good work clowns makes reading threads more interesting ...
... AzSteven and SirStefan excluded the clowns comment is not meant for you ...

Those are my thoughts about the thread as for the players
Bledsoe and Dragic both have their faults, but I do think both of them can reach All NBA.

Here is the thing though, I really really like Dragic as a player, I just don't think he is as good as Bledsoe. I also think they can function very well together and did last year. What irks me is that, until very recently, Dragic was basically immune to criticism. People were ripping Bledsoe left and right and meanwhile Dragic was playing even worse but most failings on his part were blamed on those around him.

They're both really good, both all-star caliber players. There should not be factions that support one guy or the other. Those dudes are what made the team good last year and the team is at its best this year when those guys are playing well together.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here is the thing though, I really really like Dragic as a player, I just don't think he is as good as Bledsoe. I also think they can function very well together and did last year. What irks me is that, until very recently, Dragic was basically immune to criticism. People were ripping Bledsoe left and right and meanwhile Dragic was playing even worse but most failings on his part were blamed on those around him.

They're both really good, both all-star caliber players. There should not be factions that support one guy or the other. Those dudes are what made the team good last year and the team is at its best this year when those guys are playing well together.

this.

I don't get the factions at all.

I actually think BOTH guys are very solid players. But I don't think either of them are true blue superstars.

 

[Chaplin]

this.

I don't get the factions at all.

I actually think BOTH guys are very solid players. But I don't think either of them are true blue superstars.

I'm not sure why this has gotten this far--it's like arguing about red velvet cupcakes---you love them with chocolate frosting, but somebody else likes them with vanilla frosting and they'll be DAMNED if you tell them any different.

 

[SirStefan32]

The problem is that the Suns fans on this board overvalue their players, and someone pointing out that someone is not as good as everyone thinks is seen as an attack on that player. I've been attacked many times for pointing out that Bledsoe is grossly overrated since he can't quite run an offense and can't shoot well enough to be a good shooting guard. Somehow, from that people started the "You hate Bledsoe" narrative.

I don't think Dragic was immune to criticism either. I am a huge Dragic fan, and I've criticized him regularly. I've always said that he doesn't quite handle the ball as well as a point guard should, has no mid-range game, and isn't a particularly good shooter (prior to last year.)

I am sure this is not limited to this particular board, but when you express an unpopular opinion and try to remain objective, you are routinely attacked by a proverbial angry mob. Two people dared to suggest Bledsoe and Goran may not be ideal back court partners, and we got called every name in the book. Then eventually, people came around. Now they have a couple of great games and people jump back on the bandwagon.

Having said all that, while the board isn't perfect, there have always been enough open-minded people on this board to keep me coming back. It's probably been 15-ish years now on this board and the previous one.

 

[BC867]

Isn't the difference between Dragic and Bledsoe that, while Goran is a shoot-first PG, Eric is a ball hog. He puts on a more spectacular show and even picks up assists, but he does not make the rest of the team better.

A team with a Michael Jordan or LeBron could get by that way. But not the Suns or most other teams.

 

[Errntknght]

Isn't the difference between Dragic and Bledsoe that, while Goran is a shoot-first PG, Eric is a ball hog. He puts on a more spectacular show and even picks up assists, but he does not make the rest of the team better.

A team with a Michael Jordan or LeBron could get by that way. But not the Suns or most other teams.

I wouldn't call Bledsoe a ball hog and the stats don't support that either. He shoots less than Dragic per minute played and this year he's getting way more assists. Much of the time Goran defers to Eric when they first enter into the half court on a non-break but he gets the ball back enough to shoot more than Eric does. Last year the team won less when Bledsoe was out even though Goran played his best ball then, so that counters your claim that Bled doesn't make the team better. You consistently use pejorative words/phrases when talking about Bledsoe that you never use in regard to Dragic - which, along with ignoring the stats, strongly suggests you are quite biased against Bledsoe. Nearly everyone thinks they are unbiased so I imagine you do as well.

For example, 'shoot first PG' and 'ball hog' have very similar meaning in NBA basketball but one is much more derogatory and everyone in here would correctly guess which one you'd apply to Goran and which to Eric. Bias often shows up in the choice of words...

 

[SirStefan32]

Ah, but it's NOT the same thing. The best example of a ball hog we saw with just over 3 minutes left in the game against Houston. Suns are on a mini-run, and they get the ball, Bledsoe pushes it. Dragic is wide open about 6-8 feet from the basket on Bledsoe's left side. Bledsoe chooses to go right between two defenders for a contested shot and misses. That's a ball hog, that's a selfish play, whatever you want to call it, it;s signature Bledsoe.

Now, if you have the skill, that level of selfishness is not a huge deal. MJ, Kobe, LeBron- they've all done it. Bledsoe, however does not have that kind of skill, ability, etc.

 

[Errntknght]

One example does not define a ball hog. It has to be a persistent behavior - and reported objectively. Find something like that and we might listen to you.

 

[BC867]

One example does not define a ball hog. It has to be a persistent behavior - and reported objectively. Find something like that and we might listen to you.

Time after time, I have seen Eric Bledsoe repeat what Stefan referred to. And, unlike Dragic, he brings the ball up slowly and you can see that he is letting the shot clock run down to go into his 1-man show. We know that is not what Jeff wants.

That is what I have against him. Nothing more. Nothing less. He has made some athletic shots and he has blown some.

As a Phoenix fan watching on TV, I just get the impression that when Dragic has the ball after a made basket by the opponent, he is playing the role of Point Guard and the rest of the team knows it.

I'm not talking about fast break situations, where each has done a good job of weaving his way to the basket.

These are my observations. I respect that you don't agree.