Suns at Hornets 8ET MY45

[Cheesebeef]

This team has way bigger problems.

How about having two players who are among the worst pick and roll defenders to ever set foot on the court at this stage of their careers, and then Amare and Raja's horrible D on top of that? How about a shooting guard who gives up the most production to the opposition at his position in the entire league, and then contributes absolutely nothing beyond the ability to hit an open three point shot? What about the inexplicable regression of two young guys who used to be a huge part of this team, on top of the regression of the older guys we expected it from? How about the attitude of complaining to the press from all of our guys, particularly Nash who has always been a vocal and positive leader? Does that not have a huge negative effect on the team? I really think it does.

And yes, given his abilities it's not unreasonable to want Amare to be a good rebounder. But it's not going to happen. Why has Nash always been so horrible defensively? He hasn't lacked the desire, footspeed, or smarts to be a good defender. After a certain number of years you just have to accept certain things about certain players. Amare isn't in his second year anymore.

i agree with all of the above... and sadly, it's making me start to lean in a very uncomfortable position... which is this team, with Amare as it's "superstar" will never win anything. He's soooooo one dimensional. He can score. That's all. He's not a good passer, he's a bad defender and a mediocre rebounder. I guess what it comes to do is do we really try to build a team "around" Amare? Is that even possible? Is he a franchise player? If not, are we going to be like other teams who give MAX contracts out to guys who aren't franchise players which ultimately doom us to mediocrity forever?

 

[DeAnna]

How about ya'all wake me up after the All-Star break? Then we can make relevant assessments of where this team is at.

No use in getting all your knickers in a twist at this stage.

 

[Sovereignz]

i agree with all of the above... and sadly, it's making me start to lean in a very uncomfortable position... which is this team, with Amare as it's "superstar" will never win anything. He's soooooo one dimensional. He can score. That's all. He's not a good passer, he's a bad defender and a mediocre rebounder. I guess what it comes to do is do we really try to build a team "around" Amare? Is that even possible? Is he a franchise player? If not, are we going to be like other teams who give MAX contracts out to guys who aren't franchise players which ultimately doom us to mediocrity forever?

Well, you just kind of have to have a much better team around him than you would have to put around a guy like Duncan. Look at what the Pistons did when they won the championship. I'm not convinced even Duncan could make this team a true contender, JUST because we have sooooooo many incredibly flawed players in multiple aspects. It's not just Amare although he obviously has big ones.

If Amare had a supporting cast of something like Billups, Chandler and Granger and high impact roleplayers it would be much more beneficial to him than this group in my opinion. Surrounding a bad defensive player with other bad defensive players? Yeah, that's going to work.

 

[SirStefan32]

i agree with all of the above... and sadly, it's making me start to lean in a very uncomfortable position... which is this team, with Amare as it's "superstar" will never win anything. He's soooooo one dimensional. He can score. That's all. He's not a good passer, he's a bad defender and a mediocre rebounder. I guess what it comes to do is do we really try to build a team "around" Amare? Is that even possible? Is he a franchise player? If not, are we going to be like other teams who give MAX contracts out to guys who aren't franchise players which ultimately doom us to mediocrity forever?

Bingo! You are exactly right. He is the best one dimensional player EVER, but a one dimensional player nonetheless. He just doesn't have "IT"- that "x-factor" that separates superstars from all-stars. In addition to that, we don't know what's gonna happen with his knee in the next couple of years... I agree that Suns should look into trading him. The only issue is how do you get a good big man in return?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, you just kind of have to have a much better team around him than you would have to put around a guy like Duncan. Look at what the Pistons did when they won the championship.

not sure how the Pistons figure in here. That entire team were good-great defenders. That team also didn't have any super-duper-MAX guys on their roster. I also (unfortunately) don't believe Kerr/Sarver have any clue on how to put together a roster like the Pistons had around Amare. Also, the Pistons have been pretty much the exception to the rule over the course of the 3 decades of basketball. That was the only "team" sans superstar that was able to win the title. And Amare is just too damn mentally weak/even stupid to be that guy... eh, none of this really matters. With Kerr/Sarver at the helm, this team is completely screwed even if Amare ever elevated his game to Bron/Wade levels.

 

[Sovereignz]

not sure how the Pistons figure in here. That entire team were good-great defenders. That team also didn't have any super-duper-MAX guys on their roster. I also (unfortunately) don't believe Kerr/Sarver have any clue on how to put together a roster like the Pistons had around Amare. Also, the Pistons have been pretty much the exception to the rule over the course of the 3 decades of basketball. That was the only "team" sans superstar that was able to win the title. And Amare is just too damn mentally weak/even stupid to be that guy... eh, none of this really matters. With Kerr/Sarver at the helm, this team is completely screwed even if Amare ever elevated his game to Bron/Wade levels.

Well, I was actually thinking about them putting a bunch of defensive/semi-star types around Rip Hamilton who was considered a bad defender and one dimensional (mid range J). Yes Amare is a max player and they never really had one, but the cast wouldn't have to be quite as amazing and deep around Amare as it was with Rip either, so it kind of balances out.

But you're right, they were the exception to the rule for the most part but even so, the prospect of scrapping EVERYTHING with no prospects whatsoever and multiple draft picks out of our hands (I pray to God that 2010 pick has some protection on it) sounds pretty horrible.

 

[SirStefan32]

I thought 2010 pick was unprotected?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, I was actually thinking about them putting a bunch of defensive/semi-star types around Rip Hamilton who was considered a bad defender and one dimensional (mid range J). Yes Amare is a max player and they never really had one, but the cast wouldn't have to be quite as amazing and deep around Amare as it was with Rip either, so it kind of balances out.

But you're right, they were the exception to the rule for the most part but even so, the prospect of scrapping EVERYTHING with no prospects whatsoever and multiple draft picks out of our hands (I pray to God that 2010 pick has some protection on it) sounds pretty horrible.

unbelievably, it's completely unprotected.

 

[elindholm]

Stoudemire is the big-man version of Vince Carter.

Both came into the league with insane athleticism, dealt with serious injuries, and bounced back to a level that is "impressive" but not otherworldly. Both are incredibly talented scorers who don't do much else and who tend to drift when the spotlight isn't on them. Both are beloved by most of their hometown fans, but frankly not all that highly regarded elsewhere and not particularly enticing as trade bait.

And both have never been champions, and will never be good enough to lead a team to a title.

 

[Shzm13]

^Same with melo.


Well, at least Melo won a 'ship with Syracuse. lol

 

[msdundee]

Just too, too good to pass up. This is why it's so fun to read these game threads:

cly2tw: "Nash out? Then, we have a chance against Paul and co.!"

(Well ..... okay.)

cly2tw: "Nash led team has two sure things going for them: No chance of winning WCF and no chance of winning against Paul led Hornets. At least, there is some uncertainty with him out."

(We heard you the first time.)

cly2tw: "Against this Hornets, we are always in teh game when Nash is not in the game!"

(We heard you the first time, and the second time.....)

cly2tw: "as i said, no Nash against Paul, we are at least in the game."

(.... and the third time too.)

cly2tw: "consider it a sure loss had Nash played. with only one really bad defender in Amare, we had a chance this time w/o Nash."

(Notice the similarity to the old Chinese water torture?)

 

[cly2tw]

Just too, too good to pass up. This is why it's so fun to read these game threads:

cly2tw: "Nash out? Then, we have a chance against Paul and co.!"

(Well ..... okay.)

cly2tw: "Nash led team has two sure things going for them: No chance of winning WCF and no chance of winning against Paul led Hornets. At least, there is some uncertainty with him out."

(We heard you the first time.)

cly2tw: "Against this Hornets, we are always in teh game when Nash is not in the game!"

(We heard you the first time, and the second time.....)

cly2tw: "as i said, no Nash against Paul, we are at least in the game."

(.... and the third time too.)

cly2tw: "consider it a sure loss had Nash played. with only one really bad defender in Amare, we had a chance this time w/o Nash."

(Notice the similarity to the old Chinese water torture?)

Fact is fact. I had to respond to fellow fans who simplisticly put this loss into the category of "no Nash no chance".

 

[mojorizen7]

Sounds like i didn't miss much tonight.
I've gotta question Porter holding Nash/Shaq out against Hornets to save them for the um...Mavericks.

 

[joshstmarie]

Nash was sick he didnt hold him out. And im sure he thought amare could handle NEVER MADE AN OFFENSIVE MOVE TO THE BASKET WITHOUT IT BEING AN ALLEY OOP STRETCHING IT OUT JUST A BIT LONGER FOR THE LONGEST SURNAME EVER chandler.

or at least maybe robin could gaurd him and amare take west.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Robin "ultra-bust" Lopez with zero, ZERO rebounds in 20 minutes.

What a joke.

Worse is Amare with 4 rebounds in 40 minutes. Amare will NEVER lead a team to championship caliber level when he rebounds and plays defense (5 pf against a hornets team that doesn't have strong interior scoring except for alley oops etc) like total garbage.

I am starting to think we should just swing an Amare trade for expiring + draft picks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Stoudemire is the big-man version of Vince Carter.

Both came into the league with insane athleticism, dealt with serious injuries, and bounced back to a level that is "impressive" but not otherworldly. Both are incredibly talented scorers who don't do much else and who tend to drift when the spotlight isn't on them. Both are beloved by most of their hometown fans, but frankly not all that highly regarded elsewhere and not particularly enticing as trade bait.

And both have never been champions, and will never be good enough to lead a team to a title.

ugh. man do I hate reading this. not because I disagree with it, but because it's reallly hits the nail on the head.

the power forward version of Vince Carter. sigh.

 

[Covert Rain]

I got ripped on these boards for saying we got another big man (Lopez) who will underachieve on the boards. With Amare already having issues with 18 one night 5 for the next 2.....I am not surprised. Now this team has 2 young guys who are going to dissappear from the boards on any given night. If it wasn't for Shaq this team would get killed by 20 on the boards probably every night.

To see how things are unfolding under the Sarver/Kerr era is just down right fustrating.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I got ripped on these boards for saying we got another big man (Lopez) who will underachieve on the boards. With Amare already having issues with 18 one night 5 for the next 2.....I am not surprised. Now this team has 2 young guys who are going to dissappear from the boards on any given night.

If it wasn't for Shaq this team would get killed by 20 on the boards probably every night. To see how things are unfolding under the Sarver/Kerr era is just down right fustrating.

Part of that is strategy though. No one, save Amundson crashes the offensive board. They purposely run back to set up their defense. It's madness.

 

[Bufalay]

Stoudemire is the big-man version of Vince Carter.

Vince Carter jumped over a huge guy. What more do you want from the guy?