Suns at Jazz 8:30 MY45 HD TNT HD

[green machine]

The way the stroke that long 3 with his first shot, you must wonder why he was not put in before Pike, who couldn't make anything as long as the game is still competitive.

We get the point, if DJ plays the Suns win.

Frankly, I have no issue with going to Pike. DJ got the entire 4th quarter which was fine.

But DJ playing would not have won the game. It is that simple.

 

[cly2tw]

Amare did guard Boozer at the beginning of the game, when a lot of the offensive rebounds were given up. Brewer was smoking Raja/Barbs on the boards. Amare switched to Okur when Skinner came in. Then it was a zone for the rest of the time. Amare was pretty bad on D, but in his defense, he didn't see those Okur moves on tape, because there are none except for those we saw tonight.

Kerr needs to show some control, or the fans will start thinking about Kerr what they are thinking about D'Antoni....

I missed the start of the game. But Boozer got only 1 rebounds all game, so our giving up many offensive reboudns to start the game was hardly ascribable to Amare as Boozer defender then.

Amare got burned by Okur twice under basket and once at 3 pt shot. Were there more?

 

[cly2tw]

We get the point, if DJ plays the Suns win.

Frankly, I have no issue with going to Pike. DJ got the entire 4th quarter which was fine.

But DJ playing would not have won the game. It is that simple.

Nobody claims DJ instead of Pike wouldve won it. Only my opinion that Pike in for non-garbage time in this game sealed the fate right there. Since many use this game as proof that we couldn't win wihtout Nash and Amare sucks, I was trying to say that DA didn't give it
a better chance with the Pike decision.

I mean without Nash our only chance lies in having tougher defense to frustrate the opponents and inserting Pike instead of DJ is simply counter-productive.

 

[green machine]

Nobody claims DJ instead of Pike wouldve won it. Only my opinion that Pike in for non-garbage time in this game sealed the fate right there. Since many use this game as proof that we couldn't win wihtout Nash and Amare sucks, I was trying to say that DA didn't give it
a better chance with the Pike decision.

I mean without Nash our only chance lies in having tougher defense to frustrate the opponents and inserting Pike instead of DJ is simply counter-productive.

Or they have a chance if they can get hot from 3 point range. Pike has that ability, he's proven it. DJ, on the other hand, has not.

 

[JS22]

Or they have a chance if they can get hot from 3 point range. Pike has that ability, he's proven it. DJ, on the other hand, has not.

I don't understand the love for Pike. He is flat out terrible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

okay, prior to even knowing the outcome (i've been away from television all this time) i want to recant some of my earlier comments. the team that i saw trying to finish out the first half undermanned may not have been the best, but the effort was more than i expected. i commend them for that. now i'll read the rest of the thread (beyond page 5) and see what i missed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The real guy that D'Antoni must hate is Sean Marks. The Suns big men aren't showing any sort of hustle on the boards and that guy can't buy a minute.

but kerr told us to expect so much more from him this year!!! what happened???

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I believe either could run a structured offense where the coach is the one calling all the plays. Neither has the basketball acumen to be free wheeling creators.

bingo! and that's my BIGGEST gripe with dantoni. his complete failure to recognize the fact that no one other than nash can steer his offense and thus his failure to put his other players in a position to succeed. it doesn't mean junking his philosophy, but rather, adding to it for circumstances such as these. narrowsighted, lack of recognition and foresight, poor planning, and plain old pathetic stubbornness and arrogance.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Amare did guard Boozer at the beginning of the game, when a lot of the offensive rebounds were given up. Brewer was smoking Raja/Barbs on the boards. Amare switched to Okur when Skinner came in. Then it was a zone for the rest of the time. Amare was pretty bad on D, but in his defense, he didn't see those Okur moves on tape, because there are none except for those we saw tonight.

Kerr needs to show some control, or the fans will start thinking about Kerr what they are thinking about D'Antoni....

i'm starting to think of kerr like i think of rod graves [cue howdy doody]

 

[green machine]

I don't understand the love for Pike. He is flat out terrible.

It's not love for Pike, but an understanding that maybe he gave them a better chance to win then a rookie who has not played any significant minutes this season and just rejoined the team today.

 

[cly2tw]

bingo! and that's my BIGGEST gripe with dantoni. his complete failure to recognize the fact that no one other than nash can steer his offense and thus his failure to put his other players in a position to succeed. it doesn't mean junking his philosophy, but rather, adding to it for circumstances such as these. narrowsighted, lack of recognition and foresight, poor planning, and plain old pathetic stubbornness and arrogance.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, DA sets the team without Nash for failure. And it makes no sense to blame Banks, Amare, LB, or even Diaw or maybe not him for what they did "wrong". They are all individually very talented players. It's coach's job to make them as a team to succeed, Nash or not. I'd say, put Amare on the Lakers' team instead of Bynum. They win it all.

 

[cly2tw]

It's not love for Pike, but an understanding that maybe he gave them a better chance to win then a rookie who has not played any significant minutes this season and just rejoined the team today.

Which has been repeatedly proven to be a fallacy, illusion, with the minutes Pike has played this season, to the degree that even anything unknown might be better than Pike, in eyes of bystanders. You have to wonder why DA doesn't see it.

 

[Bufalay]

If Pike still thinks that he is an NBA player and is interested in playing bball the Suns should consider sending him to the D-league. (not really). However, this comparison between Pike and DJ/Tucker made me curious. It is obvious that those 2 are dominant players in the D-league. How many points do you all think that Pike would average if he played in the D-league?

BTW I would have loved to see D'antoni send Pat Burke to the D-league last year, it would've been hilarious to see that clown's reaction.

 

[Griffin]

A few days ago people were bashing D'Antoni for not playing Banks more. Tonight he gave Banks another opportunity to earn his minutes, and Banks again failed to deliver. So now, apparently, D'Antoni is yet again at fault, this time for not playing Strawberry more. It seems to me that some people may be looking for reasons to bash D'Antoni regardless of whether those reasons exist.

As for Strawberry, I too would have liked to see him play instead of Pike, but that's mostly because I haven't seen him play much yet, and who in their right mind would want to watch Pike play anyway. But it's not up to D'Antoni to cater to what the fans want to see. He tried to win the game, and gave his veteran the early playing time. DJ still got to play 12 minutes. I don't think having Strawberry out there earlier would have made the slightest bit of difference in the outcome, and D'Antoni never seems to put in rookies ahead of veterans anyway. Do I agree with that? Not necessarily, especially if the veteran is a player without an ego like Pike. But at this point, that decision is simply not significant enough. I do hope that DJ will get some more playing time in the future though, because he may be able to help down the road whereas Pike probably won't.

Edit: it just occurred to me that DJ must have arrived from his D-League team not long before the game. He might have not actually practiced with the team in two or three weeks.

Also, with regards to what is being said during time-outs and such, the viewers get to hear very little. In fact, networks generally are prohibited from airing any segments where strategy is being discussed. So I don't think that's a good basis for assessing a coaching style.

 

[cly2tw]

We can't trust Banks to run an offense of Nash's style. We all agree on that. What else is new? What else has his play today proven to you? If the coach doesn't provide a structure other than Nash, he sets up the whole Nash-less team for failure. Isn't that obvious to anyone?

 

[CaptainInsano]

What we learned from this game:

Banks is an Eddie House, absolutely not a combo PG in any sense of the word.

Diaw is now 100% officially worthless for his 9 million.

Barbosa, while talented, is a huge ballhog and needs to be kept away from the PG slot as much as possible. Who do we put at PG then? I dunno ask sarver and kerr. Actually ask D'antoni first off since he was the one with the scouting brilliance to sign Banks for that spot. Was he wearing beer goggles?

Pike is old and done, so stop playing him already ffs. Remember clueless Mike, we pay him for a roster slot and so the league pays most of his veteran salary. Not so he can come in and shoot up bricks and...uhh...shoot up bricks.

This game SHOULD have been DJ, SKINNER, and BANKS time to get some serious minutes (no matter how well they performed) and instead we are playing Eric Pukeowski and Barfis Diawful. WTF!

Our rebounding woes, while Amare and most of the team cannot box out worth a donkeys testicles, are actually mostly on Diaw because he rebounds like an absolute pansy. Just stop playing him already, he gives us absolutely nothing. If you cannot barely ever score, then put the effort in rebounding and defense, right? Well, Barfis defense is nothing special and his rebounding is just pure garbage for his minutes, size, and position.

As for my biggest issue: I am having a hard time figuring out how to wrap my mind around the fact that Diaw still somehow found a way to do almost absolutely nothing in this game. This was the perfect game for him to step up and at least have a semi 2006-like performance. What did we get? No strong offensive effort, no strong rebounding, no strong playmaking in 35 f-ing minutes. How is that STILL possible in a game where 3 starters are out? Simply mind boggling. How lazy and absolutely useless can he possibly be?

It has gotten utterly deplorable. Atlanta RAPED us in that deal if we get anything other then the #1 pick. If planet orange is a huge pumpkin pie then Boris is eating the entire damn thing right now. What an embarrasment...

If we are going to beat the spurs in the playoffs we need to trim down to a 7 man rotation during then, with skinner getting almost all of diaws minutes. Otherwise D'antoni playing barfis is going to sink us (outrebounded to hell and back). What if we get in foul trouble? Maybe we should do that dice roll for Artest.

 

[jandaman]

Barbosa for Calderon.



its obvious, D'Antoni is at fault as much as any of the players that did not play well.

The Suns ran their usual system, without the player(s) that make that system work.... Nash and Marion.

D'Antoni should of actually "coached" and adjusted with the available players.

Banks, Barbosa running the point guard duties in the Nash system.... is asking for trouble.

Diaw... well I'm convinced he wont score 15 points again nor play "well"... until Amare takes a game off.... both are just not compatible... its an anomaly.. but literally... Diaw does not belong on the court the same time as Amare.... maybe if they played him at the PG last night... maybe he would gotten atleast 10 assists... he was the best play maker available... yet was not utilized that way..... D'Antoni.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Anyone sticking up for Pike is 40+ and living vicariously through him.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Diaw... well I'm convinced he wont score 15 points again nor play "well"... until Amare takes a game off.... both are just not compatible... its an anomaly.. but literally... Diaw does not belong on the court the same time as Amare.... maybe if they played him at the PG last night... maybe he would gotten atleast 10 assists... he was the best play maker available... yet was not utilized that way..... D'Antoni.

I don't fully believe that, yeah coach is not doing his best, but I say it is still 95% on diaw. That is my opinion of course, but lets ignore that and look at it this way.

If it comes down to it, it is either amare or diaw.

Amare

or

Diaw

Who do you pick?

I go with Amare, and in that case diaw will never work. Even in his breakout season and breakout playoffs run diaw compared to amare now is horse puke compared to platinum. So diaw is still useless. Also Diaw played PG for atlanta and he sucked balls from what I saw and mostly heard (and I heard a lot from ATL back then about it).

Diaw might suck at rebounding, but if we play him at PG he will probably not get a single rebound. We would get absolutely slaughted like lambs on the boards when nash was out and diaw was at PG then.

From a rebounding standpoint it would be the most ugly thing you ever, EVER saw. That I can gaurantee you.

We HAVE to move diaw.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Oh I don't think it is the end of the world. I am just disappointed in the effort that was displayed. Losing isn't the issue. It is the manner in which you lose.

If I saw Barbosa try to be more of a team player and fail at it, at least I would consider it a step in the right direction.

Same with Amare on defense.

Or Banks with running the offense.

Barbosa ran the offense most of the night, not Banks.

 

[nashman]

Barbosa did run it most of the night and he just looks to score too much. Many time he could have kicked it out to get someone else involved. Nash makes us function more as a team with Barbs he is just try to do it himself which doesn't work. I am not to upset about this loss as if you pull any teams best three players (this season these 3 are) and ask them to play a solid team on the road after an overtime game the night before, chances are you lose about 99% of the time.

 

[Stout]

No kidding. What is there to be embarrassed about having 3 starters out and getting blown out by a good team on the road?
Lets hope nobody gets hurt & DA doesn't just sit on his butt in the 4th qtr and continues to coach these guys.

Wow, the one Suns game I've been able to watch all season, and this has to be it. Yikes!

Well, I picked this post to respond to, because it helps me put it all in a nutshell. I am HUGELY embarassed for my team, and I doubt we'll be able to make much noise in the postseason, and I have good reason.

Did I expect us to win this game, with so many starters out? No. Even though the Jazz were shorthanded too, I thought we'd lose. Did I expect effort? Yes, but I saw very little. I saw guys standing around all night while the Jazz had their way with us. I mean, we got crushed, and that is WITH the Jazz having an awful shooting streak in the first half.

My main concern is the problem with the bigs. We STILL don't have someone who can take the pressure off of Amare (none of the guys we were missing were 'that guy'). It is crystal clear that Amare still does not have the ability to guard a good big man with consistency. To be abused by Okur (sp?) is incredibly embarassing. Well, he was worried about foul trouble, you say? So, when he's in foul trouble in the playoffs, it'll be okay for him to simply give up and suck then as well? If he can't guard OKUR while worrying about fouls, how in the heck will he even contemplate guarding Duncan while thinking about the same?

So, to sum up: we played without much heart. Amare hasn't improved to the point we need him to. Not nearly enough. He still has as many holes in his defensive game as swiss cheese. Allow me to add that we do not deserve to win in the playoffs, because our management and ownership clearly do not want us to win. Everyone knew the direction we needed to go this offseason, from the fans to the media. Not only did the team ignore the obvious, they made matters worse by dumping KT just to save money. Well, guess what? We'll get to watch the finals from home again.

 

[msdundee]

...... if you pull any teams "best three players" ......

Don't know if you heard it, but Doug Collins used that exact same phrase last night during the game. Based on the season so far, I would agree with him (and you) but expected any such comment would incite a real uproar on this board.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Dantoni "We like the ball in Barbosa's hands when Nash is out."

 

[nowagimp]

Oh I don't think it is the end of the world. I am just disappointed in the effort that was displayed. Losing isn't the issue. It is the manner in which you lose.

If I saw Barbosa try to be more of a team player and fail at it, at least I would consider it a step in the right direction.

Same with Amare on defense.

Or Banks with running the offense.

I am disappointed with the offense without Nash, but it seems that off ball movement with either Barbs or Banks creating is poor. A great passer has that effect on his teammates, they move without the ball because they trust their energy wont be wasted. Chris paul does that for his teammates, all great PG's do. Watching amare maneuver in the lane, I just kept getting the feeling that Nash would have gotten him the ball last night WHEN he needed it do do damage. It takes alot of energy to bang down there and when no pass comes, it has to have an effect. We have all known this anyway, that Nash makes others better, its what he does. When he is not there, the other players arent as good.