Suns at Lakers 8:30 TNT HD

[Renz]

Yeah! Sure, its not like we haven't been close the last few years, but now were no more a contender than the Lakers! You lost all credibility with that statement!

Why? Because the Lakers and Suns have almost identical records this season, and L.A. is even 2-1 against PHX? Now who is being the homer?

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

 

[jbeecham]

The officiating got better in the 2nd half, but the 1st half was clearly Laker biased with them shooting 16fts to only 3 for the Suns. Amare was getting fouled by Kwame or Turiaf on every inside shot attempt. There were even 2 plays where he went in for dunks and Kwame stood there trying to draw a charge but was no where close to being in the right position and caught Amare with a shoulder while he was in mid-air.....Amare crashed to the ground and missed the shot and no foul was called either time. That's a dangerous play and the refs just let it go. There was another play where Amare grabbed a defensive rebound and gets shoved out of bounds by Kwame while Odom jumps into him also and all 3 go out of bounds.....Amare had no choice but to flick the ball over his head back inbounds and the Lakers got possession back (Oh and no foul on Kwame or Odom).

The other thing that bugged me all night long (which I posted earlier) is that the Lakers were given the ball every time it went out of bounds and it was questionable on who touched it last. I can understand the refs being confused and giving the ball to the home team 60-70% of the time as a home court advantage, but it was every damn time. It makes it even worse when the Suns are winning the whole game, being the aggressive team and still can't get the calls that the aggressive teams should be getting. It backfires on us, if the Suns are playing well and winning by double digits then the refs decide to help the other team get back into the game and make it more competitive, especially if it's a national TV game.

I don't even want to get into who the better team is because both are quality playoff teams when healthy. Losing Bynum for 8 weeks is a big loss for the Lakers and losing Grant Hill for 2-3 weeks is a big loss for us. As far as strength of schedule, it was only brought up because Doug Collins was saying that the Lakers schedule is finally going to get tough with them having 11 of their next 16 on the road or something like that. Those announcers were crap last night anyways and half the time didn't seem to know what was going on. Most of the time they were too busy talking about the Lakers to actually comment on anything else going on in the game. At one point in the 4th qtr, I think it was Marv Albert said that the Suns had cut the Laker lead down to 7 after a Suns basket......that's how much he seemed to want the Lakers to win.

 

[D-Dogg]

According to this page http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0708.htm, the Lakers have had the 19th toughest schedule so far, while the Suns have had the 22th. I'll leave that up to the individual on whether that's a big difference or not.

If you look inside the numbers there, the lakers are 1.3 points from number 1 toughest schedule in the league, and are .41 points above the suns. There is a small point differential from top to bottom in that, so fractional points are HUGE. I'll leave that up to the individual to whether that's a big difference or not when combined with straight up with the Lakers .514 strength of schedule vs. the suns .479 sos.

 

[Suns_fan69]

All you Suns fans that are dismissing the Lakers because of playoff performances the last few years are delusional. I am absolutely terrified of them and I'm not convinced we have what it takes (namely low post defense and defensive rebounding) to beat them in a 7 game series. In fact they scare me more than SA right now.

 

[nashman]

Why? Because the Lakers and Suns have almost identical records this season, and L.A. is even 2-1 against PHX? Now who is being the homer?

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

This season is not even half over HOMER!! The Suns have been contenders the last few and continue to be while your Lakers have put together a small string of decent play EARLY this season. To suggest that since you started this season well that you are as big of a contender as the Suns is well just frankly dumb! Wait till the end of the season and see if your a contender or not, to proclaim a team that hasn't made it past the first round of the playoffs in who knows how long as big of a contender as the Suns is a joke. Who's the HOMER?

 

[nashman]

All you Suns fans that are dismissing the Lakers because of playoff performances the last few years are delusional. I am absolutely terrified of them and I'm not convinced we have what it takes (namely low post defense and defensive rebounding) to beat them in a 7 game series. In fact they scare me more than SA right now.

Lets see how they play all season lots of teams look better than they really are early in the season. Fear them more than SA , HELL NO! SA is a proven winner what the heck has this bunch of young guys on the lakers squad EVER proven in the playoffs? Couldn't disagree more.

 

[nowagimp]

The free throw discrepancies weren't significant. It was a game where alot of body contact(and some hacking) on the shooter was permitted, especially late. As a smaller team, the suns are always at a disadvantage when the calls go this way, regardless of the opponent. I thought it helped fuel the lakers comeback, but then I am suspicious of the NBA officiating in general. Total number of calls for each team is often not the problem, but when they are called and on whom. Interesting that amare seems to not be able to contact anyone without a foul, but others on both sides can put body contact the shooter. Lamar odom hand checks Nash on the perimeter without a call, but the hand check is called on farmar guarding barbosa out there, it makes no sense. Yeah the suns won, but I am more concerned with the consistency of the calls through the league, it is still terrible.

I also watched the spurs cavs game, the officiating was just terrible there as well, as inconsistent. There were so many spurs flops that it was hard to digest, and yet more physical muggings went unnoticed. When players position their feet you can tell whether they are going to flop, it just isnt that hard. If their feet are planted closer to the offensive player than their shoulders, its a planned flop and takes very little energy to knock them down. Odom did this on amare last night, worked like a charm. The spurs do it all the time. Hell I(205 lbs) can be knocked over by a person half my size if I do this. Either the NBA is stupid or they want to call it that way.

I win doesnt mean all that much, but I liked the outside shooting(except for Nash), which has been missing. Steve nash still looks physically imparied to me on his shot.

 

[nowagimp]

All you Suns fans that are dismissing the Lakers because of playoff performances the last few years are delusional. I am absolutely terrified of them and I'm not convinced we have what it takes (namely low post defense and defensive rebounding) to beat them in a 7 game series. In fact they scare me more than SA right now.

The suns have a number of tough matchups in the west, the lakers are just one of them. The spurs and warriors have been more successful beating the suns over the last few years than the lakers due to tim duncan(spurs), and all that team speed the warriors have. The mavs will be very tough. The lakers are there lakers fans, but you need to get in line, maybe 4th place on the suns list of concerns.

 

[Renz]

This season is not even half over HOMER!! The Suns have been contenders the last few and continue to be while your Lakers have put together a small string of decent play EARLY this season. To suggest that since you started this season well that you are as big of a contender as the Suns is well just frankly dumb! Wait till the end of the season and see if your a contender or not, to proclaim a team that hasn't made it past the first round of the playoffs in who knows how long as big of a contender as the Suns is a joke. Who's the HOMER?

You seem to be under the delusion that the Lakers are the same team as last season. Farmar and Bynum have vastly improved. Smush Parker has been replaced by Derek Fisher. They have one of the deepest benches in the league.

PHX couldn't get out of the West last year or the year before or the year before. Are you going to argue that this PHX team is better than past seasons?

IMO, there is no dominant team in the West this season. L.A., PHX, Dallas or SA could all make it to The Finals, but SA and L.A. are better equipped to win in the playoffs.

 

[oneofthesedays]

Can any PHX fan honestly say that this is the same Laker team as the last two seasons?

Andrew Bynum is THE reason why the Lakers took the 1st two games. You remove him from the equation and yes, it would be de ja vu all over again from the last two years. He is the difference maker in the series and when he's fully healthy the Suns will not want to face the Lakers because they have exactly what it takes to beat the Suns, a dominating interior presence.

 

[jbeecham]

You seem to be under the delusion that the Lakers are the same team as last season. Farmar and Bynum have vastly improved. Smush Parker has been replaced by Derek Fisher. They have one of the deepest benches in the league.

PHX couldn't get out of the West last year or the year before or the year before. Are you going to argue that this PHX team is better than past seasons?

IMO, there is no dominant team in the West this season. L.A., PHX, Dallas or SA could all make it to The Finals, but SA and L.A. are better equipped to win in the playoffs.

You seem to be under the delusion that the Suns were healthy in the playoffs the last 3 years (injured Joe Johnson in 05 & then injured Raja Bell, Amare Stoudemire & Kurt Thomas in 06) or that we weren't screwed over by a cheap shot from Robert Horry and subsequent suspensions to Amare & Diaw for stepping onto the court in 07. The fact is that anything can happen in the playoffs and even when you're playing well and beating teams then you can still get screwed by something out of your control. Sure the Lakers are deeper with Radmanovic, Turiaf, Walton, Farmar & sometimes Vujacic (when he plays well) coming off the bench so you can weather an injury better unless it's to Kobe or Bynum or Odom and then you're in trouble.

 

[Suns_fan69]

...what the heck has this bunch of young guys on the lakers squad EVER proven in the playoffs? Couldn't disagree more.

I think this is where we don't see eye is right there. Aside from Bynum and Farmar their main rotation isn't that young. Plus they've been in the playoffs with essentially the same team for 3 years or so and they've added Fisher who's roughly 38 times better than Smush Parker.

 

[oneofthesedays]

You seem to be under the delusion that the Suns were healthy in the playoffs the last 3 years (injured Joe Johnson in 05 & then injured Raja Bell, Amare Stoudemire & Kurt Thomas in 06) or that we weren't screwed over by a cheap shot from Robert Horry and subsequent suspensions to Amare & Diaw for stepping onto the court in 07. The fact is that anything can happen in the playoffs and even when you're playing well and beating teams then you can still get screwed by something out of your control. Sure the Lakers are deeper with Radmanovic, Turiaf, Walton, Farmar & sometimes Vujacic (when he plays well) coming off the bench so you can weather an injury better unless it's to Kobe or Bynum or Odom and then you're in trouble.

I agree it all comes down to what teams are healthy come playoff time. The Lakers are lucky that they will at least be getting Bynum back in time for the playoffs.

This game was just meaningless to me, it would be like if we beat PHX without Amare or Nash playing. Sure a win is a win, but it doesn't mean anything long term because that is probably not the team you'll be seeing in the playoffs. It's the reason why I didn't care about our wins against DET or SAS, they were both missing key guys due to injury and they clearly struggled. So anyone fan who wants to extrapolate from this game that the Suns now have the upperhand is clearly out of their mind IMHO.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Renz
.

Yeah! Sure, its not like we haven't been close the last few years, but now were no more a contender than the Lakers! You lost all credibility with that statement!

Why? Because the Lakers and Suns have almost identical records this season, and L.A. is even 2-1 against PHX? Now who is being the homer?

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Not true at all, not in this case. Close does count, and that exactly what you talk about when determining if you are "contender" There is only one champion, but more than one contender.

I thought that was obvious.

 

[nashman]

Sorry but the Lakers supposed key guys in Farmar, Bynum are young and have NOT proven they could play like they have been come Playoff time. Do they seem improved now of course, will they step up like this come playoff time? You act as though the Lakers are some battle tested playoff team when in fact they are not Kobe and Fisher are the only proven playoff players on that team!

 

[nowagimp]

The officiating got better in the 2nd half, but the 1st half was clearly Laker biased with them shooting 16fts to only 3 for the Suns. Amare was getting fouled by Kwame or Turiaf on every inside shot attempt. There were even 2 plays where he went in for dunks and Kwame stood there trying to draw a charge but was no where close to being in the right position and caught Amare with a shoulder while he was in mid-air.....Amare crashed to the ground and missed the shot and no foul was called either time. That's a dangerous play and the refs just let it go. There was another play where Amare grabbed a defensive rebound and gets shoved out of bounds by Kwame while Odom jumps into him also and all 3 go out of bounds.....Amare had no choice but to flick the ball over his head back inbounds and the Lakers got possession back (Oh and no foul on Kwame or Odom).

The other thing that bugged me all night long (which I posted earlier) is that the Lakers were given the ball every time it went out of bounds and it was questionable on who touched it last. I can understand the refs being confused and giving the ball to the home team 60-70% of the time as a home court advantage, but it was every damn time. It makes it even worse when the Suns are winning the whole game, being the aggressive team and still can't get the calls that the aggressive teams should be getting. It backfires on us, if the Suns are playing well and winning by double digits then the refs decide to help the other team get back into the game and make it more competitive, especially if it's a national TV game.

Take it easy jake, er Jbeecham ... its chinatown, er lakertown. The reason they got the calls was that the lakers WERE behind. It would be horrible entertainment for all those paying fans(tix are >30% NBA revenue) if the game wasnt at least close. The spurs got similar calls against the cavs on the same night in spurstown. Its the NBA Jake, er Jbeecham, and thats just the way it is. Entertainment is more scripted and sport more natural. I just dont remember the showtime lakers getting all the calls back in the golden age of the NBA, they earned those wins. Jordan, Stern, and $$$ has brought up to where we are.

 

[TheHopToad]

Can any PHX fan honestly say that this is the same Laker team as the last two seasons?

Andrew Bynum is THE reason why the Lakers took the 1st two games. You remove him from the equation and yes, it would be de ja vu all over again from the last two years. He is the difference maker in the series and when he's fully healthy the Suns will not want to face the Lakers because they have exactly what it takes to beat the Suns, a dominating interior presence.

I will agree with this and that is why Laker fans should be VERY worried about their chances this year. With Bynum being out a significant amount of time with a major injury, the Lakers are going to have some problems filling his shoes, as evidenced last night. Kwame is more helpful to the opponent than he is to the Lakers. They better hope they don't lose so much ground that they can't pick it back up when Bynum returns.

I also don't think that you can just assume that he is going to step back onto the court after eight weeks and pick up right where he left off. He's going to be rusty and out of competitive conditioning. Since he's very young and hasn't had an injury like this before, you have to worry that he won't be as aggressive and dominant for fear of re-aggravating the injury. Knee injuries make a lot of young players timid when they return, and often they never quite regain their old form.

But yeah, without Bynum, the Lakers look just like last year's misguided team.

 

[oneofthesedays]

I will agree with this and that is why Laker fans should be VERY worried about their chances this year. With Bynum being out a significant amount of time with a major injury, the Lakers are going to have some problems filling his shoes, as evidenced last night. Kwame is more helpful to the opponent than he is to the Lakers. They better hope they don't lose so much ground that they can't pick it back up when Bynum returns.

I also don't think that you can just assume that he is going to step back onto the court after eight weeks and pick up right where he left off. He's going to be rusty and out of competitive conditioning. Since he's very young and hasn't had an injury like this before, you have to worry that he won't be as aggressive and dominant for fear of re-aggravating the injury. Knee injuries make a lot of young players timid when they return, and often they never quite regain their old form.

But yeah, without Bynum, the Lakers look just like last year's misguided team.

I agree, the team cannot move forward with Kwame Brown as the starting center. I've watched a ton of Laker games and I have never seen the fans boo their own player like that, it was just humiliating and I felt sad for him. Last time we played Bynum had a 28/12/4 game, it's pretty hard to lose that kind of impact and expect to beat the Suns. Bynum's quantum leap this year is the only reason we are a competitive WC team. You pair Kobe with an elite center and magical things happen.

As for Bynum's recovery, even if he's out 8 weeks he'll still have 20+ games to find his rhythm. That's plenty of time and he should be very close to the level he was playing at prior to the injury right as we hit the playoffs. Wouldn't it be great if we met again the 1st round? I think it could happen again this year.

 

[D-Dogg]

yawn...are you still talking about this?