Suns at Pistons 1/22-2011

[Mainstreet]

Of course Frye hits it when it doesn't matter anymore.

First time in history of the franchise that the Suns lost a game when holding opponent to under 80 points.

The Suns just gave this game away. No urgency at all during the fourth quarter as the lead was diminishing.

Are you sure that wasn't Dudley with the 3? Anyway it didn't matter.

 

[TBaslim]

Ugly game, uglier finish.

Suns need someone who can create offense besides Nash in crunchtime. Where was Vince tonight on the offensive end? When Goran plays poorly, someone has to step up to take the load off of Steve.

Ah well, trap game on b2b on the road. Refs just let em play all game, and the Pistons D won out. Bynum is the type of small, physical guard that gives Nash fits when the refs let all the touch fouls go uncalled.

 

[TBaslim]

Also, this Suns team is not good enough to win when they miss as many open shots as they did in the 1st half. Had they made even half of those close ones, they would have weathered that terrible 4th and still won by 10+.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This team doesn't deserve the playoffs.

Deserving or not, I don't think we have more than a snowball's chance to make the playoffs. We aren't the worst team in the NBA but there's only maybe 8 teams worse than us.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I checked it Griffin. You were right, Frye hit the 3 at the end.

 

[BC867]

Fatigue setting in

I think this was the key. Although both teams were playing back-to-backs, it was the Suns who arrived in town early morning, to play at night.

Their beep-beep, Will Bynum 6'0" - 185, was the key for Detroit in the second half.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this game, to coin a phrase.

 

[Mainstreet]

Deserving or not, I don't think we have more than a snowball's chance to make the playoffs. We aren't the worst team in the NBA but there's only maybe 8 teams worse than us.

Steve

I only want the Suns to finish the season with a winning record... not make the playoffs unless another significant trade is made. Does anyone know if Dowdell is active and still on the Suns roster? His quickness might have had some impact against a player like Bynum.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I only want the Suns to finish the season with a winning record... not make the playoffs unless another significant trade is made. Does anyone know if Dowdell is active and still on the Suns roster? His quickness might have had some impact against a player like Bynum.

I think Dowdell is still active but they made it pretty clear that he was just being brought in as a practice player.

I know it's not what people want to hear around here but I don't think we finish with more than 35 wins. Right now, we have quite a few more wins than I expected so perhaps I'm wrong but I still worry about the heavy usage of Nash and the impact that will have on his body. We can't keep playing him 37 minutes a game. He has always worn down as the season progressed and we're pushing him hard in addition to what the aging process must be doing to him.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

When Goran plays poorly, someone has to step up to take the load off of Steve.

this is the saddest sentence possibly ever muttered about the suns in the last ten years.

 

[jibikao]

Damn, Hill was 4/14, Frye was 3/14 and Vince was 3/11... yikes.

Well, back to back.. I didn't expect much but it's better if they beat a winning team like Knicks (although they've been losing a lot lately). Beating a winning team is more important.

 

[jibikao]

we played nash too much yesterday and today.

yesterday, he played the entire 1st iirc.

today, played entire 1st and 3rd.

I agree. On a back to back, Nash shouldn't play 37mins. Why didn't Dragic play more?

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Dowdell is still active but they made it pretty clear that he was just being brought in as a practice player.

I know it's not what people want to hear around here but I don't think we finish with more than 35 wins. Right now, we have quite a few more wins than I expected so perhaps I'm wrong but I still worry about the heavy usage of Nash and the impact that will have on his body. We can't keep playing him 37 minutes a game. He has always worn down as the season progressed and we're pushing him hard in addition to what the aging process must be doing to him.

Steve

I suspect you're right or near the target. It's just the Suns five game winning streak against mostly bad teams gave fans a glimpse of hope. If the Suns cannot find a consistent backup PG not named Dragic the Suns need to consider other options. I still believe Nash has some good years left in him providing a team does not require him to carry a heavy load of minutes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I suspect you're right or near the target. It's just the Suns five game winning streak against mostly bad teams gave fans a glimpse of hope. If the Suns cannot find a consistent backup PG not named Dragic the Suns need to consider other options. I still believe Nash has some good years left in him providing a team does not require him to carry a heavy load of minutes.

Put him with a group that only needs him for 20 to 25 minutes a game and he could excel for another couple of years. I don't know if we're using him up or if he's the one forcing this but these games just don't mean enough to overuse him like this. If we can't win with him playing less than 30 a night we're not going to do anything anyway. We should be playing Dragic 35 minutes a night (some of that with Nash) and hopefully let him work his way out of whatever is going on.

Steve

 

[Proteus]

Put him with a group that only needs him for 20 to 25 minutes a game and he could excel for another couple of years. I don't know if we're using him up or if he's the one forcing this but these games just don't mean enough to overuse him like this. If we can't win with him playing less than 30 a night we're not going to do anything anyway. We should be playing Dragic 35 minutes a night (some of that with Nash) and hopefully let him work his way out of whatever is going on.

Steve

I don't think Nash wants to play quite so few minutes (20-25) at this point.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think Nash wants to play quite so few minutes (20-25) at this point.

IMO, Nash is a warrior and as such will not admit defeat. This is a quality that made him a 2 time MVP. His loyalty appears unyielding so the Suns need to do what is best for him.

 

[elindholm]

There is zero indication that Nash would do better with 20-25 minutes a game. Most of what appear to be "fatigue mistakes" occur after he has been out there 32+, but I don't see any dropoff in the upper 20s. And preparing for a deep playoff run with this squad is obviously silly.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is zero indication that Nash would do better with 20-25 minutes a game. Most of what appear to be "fatigue mistakes" occur after he has been out there 32+, but I don't see any dropoff in the upper 20s. And preparing for a deep playoff run with this squad is obviously silly.

Are we talking about 2 different things? If not, I'm floored by this comment. I'm not suggesting the 38th minute will be bad because he played the 37th minute. I'm talking about the wear and tear on an athlete and the impact it has on this person in future activities. I'm talking about how this is magnified in older players.

I'm certainly not worried about saving him because I think we have a playoff run in our future. I think I've made it pretty clear what I think about our playoff chances. Use him up and he has no trade value. Use him up and he's not there to help us win later in the season.

I think it's stupid to play him 37 minutes a game in back to back road games. I would have rested him on the second night and lived with the consequences. I don't know if we're going to move our best players at the deadline or if we're going to try and patch the holes for a playoff run. Regardless of direction, it makes sense to take better care of our best player.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

We lost this game because we only scored 38 points in the first half. Plain and simple. If we had built that 15 point lead earlier in the game, the Pistons would have been hard pressed to match it.

 

[mojorizen7]

Constantly pouring water into a leaky radiator of an old,overheating sportscar engine.

 

[dodie53]

there goes the streak.
tsk.

 

[elindholm]

Are we talking about 2 different things? If not, I'm floored by this comment. I'm not suggesting the 38th minute will be bad because he played the 37th minute. I'm talking about the wear and tear on an athlete and the impact it has on this person in future activities. I'm talking about how this is magnified in older players.

And I'm saying that I don't see it. You've said often that you felt Nash wore down at the end of last season and in the playoffs, but I disagree. He struggles when the game becomes more physical, but that's not a fatigue issue. I thought he was the same player in April that he was in December.

I do think that he becomes more error-prone when he has logged a lot of minutes in a given game, and it wouldn't surprise me if that effect is magnified on back-to-backs.

I would have rested him on the second night and lived with the consequences.

I think the result is the same: the Suns lose, and Nash has a clean slate for the next game.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I will be in the building on Monday night.... Hopefully the guys are rested.

 

[Covert Rain]

What I didn't get about this game is why was Vince Carter relegated to a 3 point shooter for most of the game? Steve was clearly being run at. The entire purpose of bringing Vince here was take some of that pressure. They didn't run the offense through him at all. He just played a catch and shoot guy. Vince has been his best so far here when we have given him the ball and let him drive to the hoop.

The way they are using Vince right now reminds me of when JRich first came here. They would just let him be a catch a shoot guy and he ended up hanging out at the 3 point line them majority of the time. At the very least let the guy drive, get fouled and get to the line.

 

[elindholm]

They didn't run the offense through him at all. He just played a catch and shoot guy. Vince has been his best so far here when we have given him the ball and let him drive to the hoop.

His conversion rate is terrible. Very often he drives to the hoop, gets out of control, throws up a wild shot, and pleads for a foul call that doesn't come. I can't tell whether he's getting fouled or not, but he's really not an effective one-on-one option at this point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And I'm saying that I don't see it. You've said often that you felt Nash wore down at the end of last season and in the playoffs, but I disagree. He struggles when the game becomes more physical, but that's not a fatigue issue. I thought he was the same player in April that he was in December.

I do think that he becomes more error-prone when he has logged a lot of minutes in a given game, and it wouldn't surprise me if that effect is magnified on back-to-backs.



I think the result is the same: the Suns lose, and Nash has a clean slate for the next game.

Actually, I thought he "wore down" much earlier than that. He was incredible the first month or so and was hit and miss the rest of the season. He still finished with decent numbers but he went from being the best point guard in the game to something much less than that.

Nash does have a reputation for wearing out come the end of the season which is well established. I point this out not as proof you're wrong but to show that you're not actually disagreeing with me on this issue. You're disagreeing with popular opinion (not a bad thing to do). Like you, I'm not sure that I believe he historically disappeared late in the season because of too many minutes. But I do believe it happened last year and that, as he ages, it's likely to get worse.

Last year, I noticed that his passes really lost a lot of steam following that first stretch. He was unable to make some of those incredible passes that we've learned to take for granted. He also struggled more with his shot. He seems again to be struggling with his shot.

I agree that he struggles when the game becomes more physical. Van Gundy made that idiotic comment where he said that he learned to stop Nash by putting taller players on him but that was never the "secret". We always struggled against Detroit for example because Billups played him so physically. And it wasn't exhaustion that caused him problems against LA, it was the absolute mugging by Derek that the refs repeatedly ignored.

Steve