Suns @ Bobcats

[Superbone]

Just another typical "Sarver is the reason for every bad thing that ever happens" excuse.

Give me a break. Have you been paying attention? Yeah, it's pretty much true.

 

[Michael]

Does anybody know if this is some kind of record to have a team leader in the rebounding category with 5.4 boards per game?

 

[mojorizen7]

Cue the Amare Stoudemire responses regardless of how he won't have any knees left in 3 years.

Link?

 

[Trifecta]

Just another typical "Sarver is the reason for every bad thing that ever happens" excuse.

Considering that the Turk trade happened after Kerr left and before Babby was officially hired, yep Sarver pretty much was the reason for that one. Granted Babby was bound to have a pretty big hand in it at least unoffically, seeing how he was Turk's agent and was in talks with Sarver to come on board at the time. But come on you can't absolve Sarver of his share of blame for this.

Does anybody know if this is some kind of record to have a team leader in the rebounding category with 5.4 boards per game?

If it keeps up we just may have a new winner...err loser.

 

[Chaplin]

Considering that the Turk trade happened after Kerr left and before Babby was officially hired, yep Sarver pretty much was the reason for that one. Granted Babby was bound to have a pretty big hand in it at least unoffically, seeing how he was Turk's agent and was in talks with Sarver to come on board at the time. But come on you can't absolve Sarver of his share of blame for this.

Where did I absolve Sarver? I'm disagreeing with absolving BABBY in it. Officially, Babby wasn't hired yet, but he was part of the discussions about the trade from the start. In fact, the original plan was that Babby was going to bring Hedo in as he came in before Amare left.

True, Sarver went along with it, but everyone here thinks he's making basketball decisions all the time, and it just isn't true. The guy ok's things he probably shouldn't, but the idea for them comes from other people.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

How do you propose the Suns would have gotten either of them, with basically no tradeable assets? They didn't have the room to sign either outright.

Edit: I wrote too quickly. They could have put together a decent offer if either player especially wanted to come to the Suns, but there was no evidence of that.

Both Scola and Beasley would have been far better options than our current situation. As our good friend Bill Simmons explains,

"the one thing I can't figure out: Instead of stupidly splurging on Josh Childress and Channing Frye, then dealing for Hedo Turkoglu's appalling deal ($44 million through 2014), why didn't Phoenix pursue restricted free agent Luis Scola? The Suns could have given him a five-year, $60 million offer with the first year front-loaded for $14 million (then $13M, $12M, $11M and a non-guaranteed fifth year for $10M), brutal for the Rockets because they were well over the luxury-tax threshold (meaning Scola's first front-loaded season would have cost them $28 million). "

Further, Michael Beasley was available for a 2nd round pick! This isn't hindsight or monday morning qb'ing...these options were discussed many times here by me and others, and instead we destroyed all our flexibility by paying top dollar to mediocre and or underachieving players. Again, that's what happens when you make the majority of your crucial decisions without a GM.

 

[jagu]

Man Scola and Beasley would have made this team a real contender IMO. Two good and pretty well sized players rather than Frye and Turk.

 

[elindholm]

Both Scola and Beasley would have been far better options than our current situation.

Beasley is a SF, but you're right, it's a little weird that the Suns never had any interest in him.

As for Scola, Simmons's numbers are wrong. I'm almost positive the Suns never had $14 million of cap space to work with. And, for that matter, not too many people expected Scola to take off like this. Had the Suns signed Scola to the kind of contract Simmons is suggesting, they would have been seen as dramatically overpaying.

Also, I don't have time to comb through the CBAFAQ right now, but I'm pretty sure that Scola's salary would be "leveled off" for luxury tax purposes if he were to sign that front-loaded deal and the Rockets were to match.

People tend to forget that the Suns moved out Barbosa's salary in the Turkoglu deal, so it's not that much of an extra expense for the first two years.

 

[Trifecta]

Where did I absolve Sarver? I'm disagreeing with absolving BABBY in it. Officially, Babby wasn't hired yet, but he was part of the discussions about the trade from the start. In fact, the original plan was that Babby was going to bring Hedo in as he came in before Amare left.

True, Sarver went along with it, but everyone here thinks he's making basketball decisions all the time, and it just isn't true. The guy ok's things he probably shouldn't, but the idea for them comes from other people.

Splitting hairs. You made some remark about how Sarver gets blamed for everything that goes wrong, but this offseason he made several moves (pretty much all stupid ones) during the period between when Kerr left and Babby came on board. That's on him, regardless of how involved Babby was in the background. He wasn't even hired at that point. But having said that I'm not absolving Babby either by any means.

 

[Chaplin]

Splitting hairs. You made some remark about how Sarver gets blamed for everything that goes wrong, but this offseason he made several moves (pretty much all stupid ones) during the period between when Kerr left and Babby came on board. That's on him, regardless of how involved Babby was in the background. He wasn't even hired at that point. But having said that I'm not absolving Babby either by any means.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Babby was tabbed to be the GM well before he was "officially" hired. Thinking Sarver made multiple moves without any input from anybody is naive.

Which "several" moves are you talking about? Other than your assertion that he made the Hedo trade all on his own.

 

[Trifecta]

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Babby was tabbed to be the GM well before he was "officially" hired. Thinking Sarver made multiple moves without any input from anybody is naive.

Which "several" moves are you talking about? Other than your assertion that he made the Hedo trade all on his own.

1. Hedo trade
2. Frye signing
3. Childress signing (I know a lot of people like him but I'm not sold yet on paying $6m+ a year for a backup)

The Warrick signing was good, I'll give him that.

And read my post again, I didn't say Sarver made all these moves on his own, and I didn't excuse Babby for his involvement, as he definately was involved. But at the end of the day Sarver made the call to pull off those moves (or any moves) without even having a GM in place (hired or working in the background) who specialises in talent evaluation. Babby is not a talent guy, he said it himself. And he is the PRESIDENT, not a GM in charge of player personnel. So yes, Sarver made the final call on all of this, hence why he shouldn't be free of his share of blame.