Suns @ Bulls game thread 11-28-17

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Seriously? Nothing like the tanking crowd putting words in other peoples mouths. I don't recall anyone saying they thought the team should be going all out to win this year. I have seen almost all of the regulars though talk about how player development should be the main priority this season and if that results in wins then so be it. Regardless of the team's record the youngsters should be playing big minutes.

I’ve seen a ton of “the team needs to win to keep Booker happy or he will bolt.” If Triano thinks the best way to win is playing vets at the expense of the young guys that’s what has to happen to get the wins these fans are clamoring for. Can’t have it both ways.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I’ve seen a ton of “the team needs to win to keep Booker happy or he will bolt.” If Triano thinks the best way to win is playing vets at the expense of the young guys that’s what has to happen to get the wins these fans are clamoring for. Can’t have it both ways.

That is absolutely wrong. We do not have vets on this team that are going to produce wins any more than the young players. This team needs to improve. They need to make moves to improve with an eye to the long term future. You can say you can't have it both ways, but you are dead wrong and we all know it.

 

[JS22]

Its sad you have to bench him to get his attention.

9/13
17/18
10/8

The 3 games before he was initially benched. All in less than 30 minutes. Len has his issues, but let's not pretend he wasn't playing well before he was benched.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That is absolutely wrong. We do not have vets on this team that are going to produce wins any more than the young players. This team needs to improve. They need to make moves to improve with an eye to the long term future. You can say you can't have it both ways, but you are dead wrong and we all know it.

Dude, JUST LOOK AT THE BULLS GAME. Tight game, Triano went with his vets (bender under 30 mins, jackson under 10) and they won. He sat the youngsters in order to win. Was there another reason he sat them of which I’m unaware? Because I haven’t seen anything if there was another reason. So you can’t say “Do what you have to do to ensure the win!” And say “play young guys!” If Triano doesn’t believe playing the young guys will result in wins. So I’m not dead wrong. YOU’RE dead wrong. And you have to choose, which is more important, playing the young guys or winning to keep Booker happy so he won’t leave (which I think is a BS argument, but it seems to be the prevalent thoughts among the “need to win now crowd”).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

9/13
17/18
10/8

The 3 games before he was initially benched. All in less than 30 minutes. Len has his issues, but let's not pretend he wasn't playing well before he was benched.

I’m guilty of looking at his numbers and thinking he’s playing well. I’ve not had many opportunities to watch him play but I’m cognizant of those that have watched and their frustration with his not playing good team defense. So I take his numbers with a grain of salt.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Quote from Triano:

"My challenge is finding ways to get Dragan, Marquese and Jared a space in the rotation right now," Triano told the Republic. "Those guys have to develop and the only way to develop is playing in games. But the No. 1 thing is to try to win. If one of those guys is going to help me win, I'm going to figure out a way to get him in the game“

This pretty much supports my argument. Triano is trying to win. That means giving his vets (chandler, Monroe, warren) the minutes at the expense of bender, chriss, and last game Jackson.

 

[SirStefan32]

Dude, JUST LOOK AT THE BULLS GAME. Tight game, Triano went with his vets (bender under 30 mins, jackson under 10) and they won. He sat the youngsters in order to win. Was there another reason he sat them of which I’m unaware? Because I haven’t seen anything if there was another reason. So you can’t say “Do what you have to do to ensure the win!” And say “play young guys!” If Triano doesn’t believe playing the young guys will result in wins. So I’m not dead wrong. YOU’RE dead wrong. And you have to choose, which is more important, playing the young guys or winning to keep Booker happy so he won’t leave (which I think is a BS argument, but it seems to be the prevalent thoughts among the “need to win now crowd”).

Dude, Monroe and Dudley did not play at all. Without looking at the box score, I am guessing Chandler played 15-20 minutes while Len probably got close to 30 minutes. Bender got himself in fould trouble and was largely ineffective, but I am pretty sure he still got 20-25 minutes. Jackson was ineffective, and Warren was playing extremely well. I am not sure what the hell it is that you want Triano to do. Play Jackson, Bender, Chriss, and Len 40 minutes per game and bench the only scorer outside of Booker?

 

[pokerface]

Dude, JUST LOOK AT THE BULLS GAME. Tight game, Triano went with his vets (bender under 30 mins, jackson under 10) and they won. He sat the youngsters in order to win. Was there another reason he sat them of which I’m unaware? Because I haven’t seen anything if there was another reason. So you can’t say “Do what you have to do to ensure the win!” And say “play young guys!” If Triano doesn’t believe playing the young guys will result in wins. So I’m not dead wrong. YOU’RE dead wrong. And you have to choose, which is more important, playing the young guys or winning to keep Booker happy so he won’t leave (which I think is a BS argument, but it seems to be the prevalent thoughts among the “need to win now crowd”).

Yes the Booker "happy" argument is absolute BS. Just like the Chandler "mentor" argument...more BS. Thats why they get snippy because their arguments fold like a deck of cards and they can't sustain logic for very long. Chandler and Dudley shouldn't even be here much less playing in crunch time. What's their purpose besides flushing our draft and future? Len shouldn't even be here.

 

[SirStefan32]

Quote from Triano:

"My challenge is finding ways to get Dragan, Marquese and Jared a space in the rotation right now," Triano told the Republic. "Those guys have to develop and the only way to develop is playing in games. But the No. 1 thing is to try to win. If one of those guys is going to help me win, I'm going to figure out a way to get him in the game“

This pretty much supports my argument. Triano is trying to win. That means giving his vets (chandler, Monroe, warren) the minutes at the expense of bender, chriss, and last game Jackson.

Of course he is trying to win! No coach and no player is intentionally going to throw games! Warren is not a veteran. He is still on his rookie deal, and he is a part of the young core who is STILL developing. No sane person is going to bench TJ Warren in favor of Jackson right now. Warren is a legitimate NBA player, and the only capable scorer outside of Booker.

Jackson is playing 21 minutes per game so far, which is a lot for a rookie. Bender is getting similar minutes, and it looks like his minutes are going up. Chriss is right there at 20 minutes per game as well. Len is at 23 minutes per game. Chandler is getting about 25 minutes per game (and that has been going down), Monroe is at 20, and Dudley only 13 minutes in only seven games he played.

Triano is doing an excellent job of developing the youngsters, which includes trying to win. I am sorry that the Suns have not lost every single game.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yes the Booker "happy" argument is absolute BS. Just like the Chandler "mentor" argument...more BS. Thats why they get snippy because their arguments fold like a deck of cards and they can't sustain logic for very long. Chandler and Tucker shouldn't even be here much less playing in crunch time. What's their purpose besides flushing our draft and future? Len shouldn't even be here.

Tucker is not here. Chandler is barely playing.

 

[pokerface]

That is absolutely wrong. We do not have vets on this team that are going to produce wins any more than the young players. This team needs to improve. They need to make moves to improve with an eye to the long term future. You can say you can't have it both ways, but you are dead wrong and we all know it.

Yeah right... pffft. The vets will never make a difference in any games this season...never have....never would.

If we dealt them or bench them then we would know for a FACT they wouldn't make a difference.... correct?

 

[pokerface]

Tucker is not here. Chandler is barely playing.

Actually I was thinking Dudley.... misspoke

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah right... pffft. The vets will never make a difference in any games this season...never have....never would.

If we dealt them or bench them then we would know for a FACT they wouldn't make a difference.... correct?

Do not even know how to respond. This post does not make any sense.

 

[Phrazbit]

Monroe and Dudley didn't get out of their warmups, Chandler played 18 ineffective minutes... whining about "the vets" after THAT game is incredibly tone deaf.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just a response to everyone arguing that Jackson only got 8 minutes. If he was benched for being ineffective that’s with an eye towards winning. You can’t play jackson more than 8 minutes in a game to develop him and concurrently play to win if you say he’s only playing 8 minutes because he’s ineffective.

Which do you want:

Play jackson more than 8 minutes to develop him

Or

Bench him when he’s ineffective to allow a vet (and yes though still young, 4 years in the league is a veteran), Warren to eat all the minutes to help snare a W so Booker won’t be angry and leave

You can’t both bench Jackson (to win when he’s ineffective) and give him minutes (to develop him) at the same time.

 

[SirStefan32]

Just a response to everyone arguing that Jackson only got 8 minutes. If he was benched for being ineffective that’s with an eye towards winning. You can’t play jackson more than 8 minutes in a game to develop him and concurrently play to win if you say he’s only playing 8 minutes because he’s ineffective.

Which do you want:

Play jackson more than 8 minutes to develop him

Or

Bench him when he’s ineffective to allow a vet (and yes though still young, 4 years in the league is a veteran), Warren to eat all the minutes to help snare a W so Booker won’t be angry and leave

You can’t both bench Jackson (to win when he’s ineffective) and give him minutes (to develop him) at the same time.

He is averaging 21 minutes per game! He played eight minutes in one game and you are freaking out?

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I have an eye on the wins column like many, but I haven't minded any of the 8 wins thus far. This isn't Dudley coming in to win the game. And certainly not Chandler. Monroe has helped - but not sure on the plan for him. James doesn't have a future here, so I would like to see his minutes cut and run a Booker & Daniels(meh)/Jackson back court for 10 mins per game. Daniels has shot well in a few games but I don't recall any games that he has won, although he would theoretically open the floor for Booker. It has mostly been Booker and Warren for the win, as it should be.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just a response to everyone arguing that Jackson only got 8 minutes. If he was benched for being ineffective that’s with an eye towards winning. You can’t play jackson more than 8 minutes in a game to develop him and concurrently play to win if you say he’s only playing 8 minutes because he’s ineffective.

Which do you want:

Play jackson more than 8 minutes to develop him

Or

Bench him when he’s ineffective to allow a vet (and yes though still young, 4 years in the league is a veteran), Warren to eat all the minutes to help snare a W so Booker won’t be angry and leave

You can’t both bench Jackson (to win when he’s ineffective) and give him minutes (to develop him) at the same time.

You can bench a player to make him watch, because he is not responding or doing what you are asking. Its a way of getting his attention. That's not about just winning. If Jackson was averaging 8 minutes, that would be something different altogether.

Part of a young player's development is to learn to be focused on winning the game, and not on their own stats. That is the tricky balance here.

This whole tanking conversation is so tiresome. It just goes around in circle.

 

[pokerface]

Do not even know how to respond. This post does not make any sense.

You aren't making sense. Are you guys claiming the coach plays vets just for show or something? The vets don't win us games? They don't impact games?

What are you even saying??

 

[pokerface]

This whole tanking conversation is so tiresome. It just goes around in circle.

It goes in circles because suns management is always a season short in making moves. Instead of benching Bledsoe last season they should have dealt him. Now they have other players that WON'T be in our future playing and messing up our draft. Chandler, Dudley, and most likely Len will not be around two years from now yet they are hanging around just to mess up our future. They artificially prop our win total with no chance at the playoffs and no chance at staying around.

 

[pokerface]

Monroe and Dudley didn't get out of their warmups, Chandler played 18 ineffective minutes... whining about "the vets" after THAT game is incredibly tone deaf.

Chandler hasn't much played this season? You think we are just talking about a single game? Talk about to tone deaf...

 

[Chaplin]

It goes in circles because suns management is always a season short in making moves. Instead of benching Bledsoe last season they should have dealt him. Now they have other players that WON'T be in our future playing and messing up our draft. Chandler, Dudley, and most likely Len will not be around two years from now yet they are hanging around just to mess up our future. They artificially prop our win total with no chance at the playoffs and no chance at staying around.

Name one game where Chandler and Dudley have already messed up our season. Just one.

You keep saying they affect the outcome of games, but I'm wondering which games you are watching.

 

[Chaplin]

Chandler hasn't much played this season? You think we are just talking about a single game? Talk about to tone deaf...

Huh? Where did he say "Chandler hasn't much played this season"? He certainly didn't in the post you're quoting.

 

[pokerface]

Huh? Where did he say "Chandler hasn't much played this season"? He certainly didn't in the post you're quoting.

It was a question... wasn't it?

 

[Chaplin]

It was a question... wasn't it?

Read your post. That first question sounds like trying to get a confirmation.