Suns @ Clippers 11-28-18

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I watched every minute of the game. Here is what was frustrating. Why are they not running the offense through Ayton on the block? Almost every time they setup the offense, it starts with Ayton setting a high screen at the top of the key. He then waits at the top of the key for the rest of the play to develop. Ayton doesn't have to drive to the hoop to be effective. Let him setup down low.

Last night on the telecast they were saying Ayton's numbers are only rivaled by two other rookie centers offensively. So, why the hell are they not running the offense through Ayton?

This team chucks up shots like they have 3 Steph Curry's. There is only one Steph Curry. It was so frustrating to watch. How is the kid going to get better on the block unless they keep giving it to him on the block?!?

I would like to see Ayton be the first option. If that doesn't work, Booker should be your second option. Yes, I know Booker is the better player right now but feeding Ayton down low should be a priority. If that doesn't go well you still have Booker.

I agree 100% with your assessment. And he’s a good passer from the block. So if he generates double teams, even better!

However I believe there are two issues holding this team back from doing this:

1. Ayton isn’t very good at establishing and holding position. Defenders seem to easily get around him to poke away entry passes. He’s just not very good at sealing his man. This should be one of the primary things he’s being schooled on at present.

2. Our other players don’t seem very adept at making entry passes. From playing basketball for years I truly don’t understand how this can so difficult for an entire team but from watching the games this clearly seems to be an issue.

These two problems make running the offense as you and I desire virtually impossible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, me too, but keep in mind that his entire life, Ayton has been the biggest, strongest, tallest player anywhere he's played. He has never gone up against anyone 2-3 inches taller and 40-50 lb heavier (Boban), or anyone nearly as strong as Harrell. While I am saddened by this, I am not really surprised.

EDIT:
Also, Boban can play. He is not a scrub. He hasn't played much because there isn't much room for someone that big in the NBA game the last few years, but in his career, he is averaging almost six points and four rebounds in nine minutes. He is easy to exploit with speed, athleticism, and shooting, but make no mistake, Boban can play.

Speed l, athleticism and shooting are precisely the three things Ayton has an advantage over boban with, and didn’t use any of them.

 

[sdscard4]

So we can't run a better offense because of entry passes? These are professional b ballers. Our coach is in over his head. It's all excuses. We need a coach who makes adjustments and has a legit system. We need to utilize Ayton. I would love to see what Pop or one of his disciples could do to our team. I guarantee we wouldn't have lost 17 of 21

 

[1Sun]

So we can't run a better offense because of entry passes? These are professional b ballers. Our coach is in over his head. It's all excuses. We need a coach who makes adjustments and has a legit system. We need to utilize Ayton. I would love to see what Pop or one of his disciples could do to our team. I guarantee we wouldn't have lost 17 of 21

With someone like Budenholzer, we would likely be around .500, and more to the point we would be seeing much more progress with Ayton, Bridges and Jackson, far less regression with Booker, and perhaps even a modicum of effort from Ariza (and Chandler before he was released).

With a Budenholzer and an NBA level point guard, this team likely contends for a playoff spot.

What could have been had McD been axed at the end of last season...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So we can't run a better offense because of entry passes? These are professional b ballers. Our coach is in over his head. It's all excuses. We need a coach who makes adjustments and has a legit system. We need to utilize Ayton. I would love to see what Pop or one of his disciples could do to our team. I guarantee we wouldn't have lost 17 of 21

Igor coached under pop for some time.

 

[slinslin]

I was hoping we would draft Montrezl Harrell, I was hoping we would sign him in the offseason, oh well.

 

[SirStefan32]

Speed l, athleticism and shooting are precisely the three things Ayton has an advantage over boban with, and didn’t use any of them.

Oh I am not disputing that. I am pretty sure I called that out in the first few pages of the game thread. I am just pointing out that it must be bizarre for Ayton to play against a rotation that's taller, heavier, and stronger than he is since he has never seen that before.

 

[sdscard4]

Igor coached under pop for some time.

When was this?

 

[SirStefan32]

Igor coached under pop for some time.

I don't think he did. He coached under Gentry, Larry Brown, then gentry again, and then went to the Cavs and Magic until he went to Utah to work under Snyder again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh I am not disputing that. I am pretty sure I called that out in the first few pages of the game thread. I am just pointing out that it must be bizarre for Ayton to play against a rotation that's taller, heavier, and stronger than he is since he has never seen that before.

didn't stop Rocky from beating Drago and ending the Cold War! Aston needs to get the eye of the tiger!!!

 

[SirStefan32]

Boban to Ayton: "I must break you!"
Boban to Igor: "If he dies, he dies!"

EDIT: On a serious note, I don't think Ayton will ever find the eye of the tiger.

 

[BC867]

Is it about fouls? Once Ayton gets a couple early fouls he seems to go into ballerina mode. I am sure he has never seen anything like Boban before.

I think you're right. Also that, if we had an NBA quality starting Point Guard, it would have expedited Ayton's confidence and development, even in this short time.

The Suns really owed it to him, as well his teammates and the fans, to provide a couple of skilled facilitators to cover 48 minutes.

What about Holmes and Ayton playing together. Move Ariza to the bench and put Holmes out there with Ayton.

Then we wouldn't have a backup Center.

Holmes not only provides solid bench play at Center to spell Ayton. He, with his additional experience, is also available to get more minutes at Center when the rookie is not having a good game.

 

[Rivercard]

Okobo can play. Very impressed with him.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Once Ayton gets a couple early fouls he seems to go into ballerina mode.

he also missed 3 jumpshots in the first. he's not the type to shoot through a little slump.
it's like he feels guilty
what we have on our hands is a NICE GUY
he doesn't want to play selfish
or throw his weight around
he's the kid in The Blind Side

i like that he's a nice guy
i like that he didn't hesitate to be critical of himself after the game

Shaq was a nice guy too
would never get into fights (except that scuffle with Barkley)
Ayton will likely never have Shaq's level of aggressive play
but i'm not worried that he'll be a Bender either
he will learn
(from a strong coach or strong teammate. Maybe Sir Charles can work with him the way Nash works with Curry. he could use some Barkley physical attitude -- without the big mouth)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think he did. He coached under Gentry, Larry Brown, then gentry again, and then went to the Cavs and Magic until he went to Utah to work under Snyder again.

Huh, I was mistaken. I thought I recalled this board talking about time under pop and someone dismissing pop’s comments about him because pop was a mentor. Not too big to admit I was wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Boban to Ayton: "I must break you!"
Boban to Igor: "If he dies, he dies!"

EDIT: On a serious note, I don't think Ayton will ever find the eye of the tiger.

that's my fear too and I hope it doesn't prevent this team from really ever taking that step forward.

 

[1Sun]

I think you're right. Also that, if we had an NBA quality starting Point Guard, it would have expedited Ayton's confidence and development, even in this short time.

The Suns really owed it to him, as well his teammates and the fans, to provide a couple of skilled facilitators to cover 48 minutes.

Careful, BC867. Others on this board will call you nuts for suggesting this...

 

[1Sun]

that's my fear too and I hope it doesn't prevent this team from really ever taking that step forward.

It would help to get a head coach, or at least a big man coach, who can light a fire under him and teach him how to be aggressive without being reckless.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It would help to get a head coach, or at least a big man coach, who can light a fire under him and teach him how to be aggressive without being reckless.

holy crap... dude, you're going on ignore. I'm also super skeptical of Koko (was when we signed him) and the entire coaching staff and thought our PG situation was atrocious, but I don't have to say it a bajillion freaking times to basically just hear myself talk.

adios.

 

[1Sun]

holy crap... dude, you're going on ignore. I'm also super skeptical of Koko (was when we signed him) and the entire coaching staff and thought our PG situation was atrocious, but I don't have to say it a bajillion freaking times to basically just hear myself talk.

adios.

Sorry, but as long as there are people defending him, I am going to continue the debate and point out when there are situations that confirm my position.

 

[Chaplin]

Sorry, but as long as there are people defending him, I am going to continue the debate and point out when there are situations that confirm my position.

That’s not what you are doing and you know it.

 

[Suns_fan69]

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This is the type of mentality Ayton needs to have.

 

[1tinsoldier]

That’s not what you are doing and you know it.

sounds like what he's doing to me

each new game gets evaluated and the team's significant challenges are discussed
some are new. but most are lingering
some posters continue to defend their positions
others continue to be critical

standard sports forum stuff

anyone who can't handle repeated disagreement should indeed "ignore" it

 

[Chaplin]

sounds like what he's doing to me

each new game gets evaluated and the team's significant challenges are discussed
some are new. but most are lingering
some posters continue to defend their positions
others continue to be critical

standard sports forum stuff

anyone who can't handle repeated disagreement should indeed "ignore" it

First of all, you agree with him so of course you’re defending him. And I’m certainly not going to let you dictate to me who I do or do not ignore.

 

[1Sun]

That’s not what you are doing and you know it.

That's my intent, and if for some reason you're getting a different message, I'm sorry.

My goal is to try to convince others on this board to see the same truth I see, so that my fellow fans do not settle for less from the franchise and team than we deserve as fans, particularly those of us who have been die-hard fans for 40+ years.