Suns @ Clippers Tuesday game thread 12-17-19

[CRC83]

I didn’t say it was, wrong guy. But I do think there pretty similar

They are similar in that they are 7 ft tall, play the same position and are extremely gifted physically. KAT appears to have a much better understanding of the game. Better shooter. Shot over 40% from 3 the last few years. Better passer. Gets to the line more frequently. Better prescience down low (more blocks). All those are true if you compare their rookie years too.

 

[Finito]

They are similar in that they are 7 ft tall, play the same position and are extremely gifted physically. KAT appears to have a much better understanding of the game. Better shooter. Shot over 40% from 3 the last few years. Better passer. Gets to the line more frequently. Better prescience down low (more blocks). All those are true if you compare their rookie years too.

ok

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn’t say it was, wrong guy. But I do think there pretty similar

I think someone needs to graph the games of all these players to help people understand what a trajectory is and what would represent a great one (think hockey stick) what would represent a mediocre one (think plateau, aka Ayton), and what would be an awful one (think regression).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

relax bud he’s played 2 games this year.

and his rookie year was about as good as any big man in the last 20 years

Other than the list someone just provided recently.

 

[Finito]

Other than the list someone just provided recently.

we get it you don’t like him. It’s ok. But to say his rookie year wasn’t good especially considering how bad that team was is just plain wrong.

it’s ok to not like a player

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm beginning to think it's more of the Suns defensive philosophy. It's getting harder and harder to explain away the Suns lack of defense and blame it on the players. The Suns have to be able to play defense better than this.

Actually they don’t. This is the concern a few of us were voicing in the offseason as we added unathletic player after unathletic player to the roster. Nonathletes have ceilings to their defensive ability. Ayton shouldn’t, so I’m blaming his defensive shortcomings on his brain and heart.
And yeah I realize I’m coming out hot in the kid. But last night just cemented every awful indication I got from him last season. He’s the same nonaggressive, weak, no-dog, player he was last year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

we get it you don’t like him. It’s ok. But to say his rookie year wasn’t good especially considering how bad that team was is just plain wrong.

it’s ok to not like a player

Lol not when you really don’t want to dislike the player. It’s maddening.

Btw try to find a post where I said his rookie wasn’t good. I said he came out like gangbusters - and he did averaging 16-10 in his first month - but then he just flatlined. He didn’t improved appreciably. His man-on defense improved and that’s about it. But I didn’t say his rookie wasn’t good.

 

[Ronin]

It might sound better if the court looked like a battlefield.... not like a soccer field.

Something to show some kind of aggression.

 

[Hoop Head]

Wish ayton would be like a barkley and power his way to the hoop... more often

Also needs to work on not getting his shot blocked

Have faith ayton can be a star player for us in near future under monty Williams

I wish he would power his way to the hoop, period. I suppose that is more often than now since he doesn't do that at all. He gets to the hoop but I wouldn't say he gets there with any force, power, or aggression. If he did then he'd get to the charity stripe a few times a game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wish he would power his way to the hoop, period. I suppose that is more often than now since he doesn't do that at all. He gets to the hoop but I wouldn't say he gets there with any force, power, or aggression. If he did then he'd get to the charity stripe a few times a game.

Exactly. As much as it would be great if he was the unstoppable force in the paint he should be. I’d settle for him even just trying it a few times a game. He’s got a feathery jumpshot. That should be his occasional, not primary (much less almost only), weapon.

 

[Superbone]

I'm beginning to think it's more of the Suns defensive philosophy. It's getting harder and harder to explain away the Suns lack of defense and blame it on the players. The Suns have to be able to play defense better than this.

I'm pretty sure our defensive philosophy isn't for Ayton to stand flat footed in the lane while Montrez Harrell dunks the ball aggressively.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm pretty sure our defensive philosophy isn't for Ayton to stand flat footed in the lane while Montrez Harrell dunks the ball aggressively.

lol... or Zubac for that matter.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Exactly. As much as it would be great if he was the unstoppable force in the paint he should be. I’d settle for him even just trying it a few times a game. He’s got a feathery jumpshot. That should be his occasional, not primary (much less almost only), weapon.

If come around the end of January, he’s not averaging 6-8 FT attempts per game, I think it would be fair to suggest we might have a problem on our hands. Problem in the sense that Ayton might not be the vital cog in the wheel that this team will require in order to become a routine presence in the post season...

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm pretty sure our defensive philosophy isn't for Ayton to stand flat footed in the lane while Montrez Harrell dunks the ball aggressively.

It's not just Harrell.

Teams were driving the lane on the Suns before Ayton returned. The idea is for someone to try and contest the shot. It's simply not happening much.

The Suns beat the Clippers earlier in the season.

 

[CRC83]

If come around the end of January, he’s not averaging 6-8 FT attempts per game, I think it would be fair to suggest we might have a problem on our hands. Problem in the sense that Ayton might not be the vital cog in the wheel that this team will require in order to become a routine presence in the post season...

But as TJ said, his current trajectory is better than KAT and Anthony Davis! Who cares about the lack of free throws! Lol.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is the box score from October 23rd, 2019 when the Suns beat the Clippers. I thought it would be interesting to look at it.

The Clippers were without Paul George.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401160677

 

[Mainstreet]

Free throw shooting is the key to consistent or improved scoring. Also shows the aggressiveness of the player.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Man you and I watched a different game. I saw Ayton pull down a bunch of uncontested rebounds, not okay sting inside, give up position and fail to fight for position AT ALL, not give help defense except for once and have a bunch of empty stats in a game in which we were never really competitive. Awesome. Dude confirmed my worst fears in his first game back, zero fire zero balls.

Oh and one FT. Can’t forget the consistency of that Ayton stat. It’s my favorite.

None of this is surprising to me...... Ayton has never shown that killer aggression for more than a quarter or a half. the dude is just too chill.

I thought Ayton had a solid outing after missing 25 games. It may take up to 10 games for him to get up to speed. One player is not going to rescue this franchise.

10 more games? If it is more than 4 I would be pissed.

I looked at his numbers after and was surprised what a pretty stat line it was. Watching the game, it seemed like he had zero impact.

This has always been the case with him. He is not a difference maker. Not sure if you can change that.

Wish ayton would be like a barkley and power his way to the hoop... more often

Also needs to work on not getting his shot blocked

Have faith ayton can be a star player for us in near future under monty Williams

He will never be that. It's not his style.

I'm pretty sure our defensive philosophy isn't for Ayton to stand flat footed in the lane while Montrez Harrell dunks the ball aggressively.

Not our philosophy........ but definitely what Ayton has brought to the table since high school.

 

[Cheesebeef]

None of this is surprising to me...... Ayton has never shown that killer aggression for more than a quarter or a half. the dude is just too chill.

my fear is he's the Suns version of Matt Leinart. The Center we've always been dreaming of... who's just isn't into the game enough to make a major impact.

10 more games? If it is more than 4 I would be pissed.

couldn't agree more. This isn't a guy who was out with an injury. The expectations people are setting here are so low. He was the FIRST pick in a LOADED draft.

 

[CRC83]

Here is the box score from October 23rd, 2019 when the Suns beat the Clippers. I thought it would be interesting to look at it.

The Clippers were without Paul George.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401160677

3 pt shooting and rebounds stand out to me too. Shot more threes in our win at a better percentage (29% vs 39%). Booker and Cam being out hurt us there. We also out-rebounded them in our win, and saw the opposite happen last night. Offensive rebounding specifically was better in our win.

Hopefully Ayton can help there going forward. I also like the idea of a lineup of Rubio, Booker, Cam, Baynes, Ayton. Get it down low to Ayton and if he gets doubled kick it out to Booker, Cam or Baynes for a 3 (all shooting better than 38%).

 

[82CardsGrad]

But as TJ said, his current trajectory is better than KAT and Anthony Davis! Who cares about the lack of free throws! Lol.

Weren’t you the dude who was tossing out a potential trade of Ayton? I’m not sure which is more ridiculous... Claiming Ayton’s trajectory is higher than Anthony Davis, or, after just a year and 2 games, giving up on the 21 year-old and trading him! [emoji15]

 

[BC867]

Yeah that whole idea we’ve been waiting to see was an epic bust tonight.

It lasted two minutes. I am wondering why Monty didn't give Ayton and Baynes on the court together a chance.

 

[cwamjn]

But as TJ said, his current trajectory is better than KAT and Anthony Davis! Who cares about the lack of free throws! Lol.

Wilt Chamberlain is but a weakling compared to the great Ayton. Oh come let us rejoice him.

 

[BC867]

3 pt shooting and rebounds stand out to me too. Shot more threes in our win at a better percentage (29% vs 39%). Booker and Cam being out hurt us there. We also out-rebounded them in our win, and saw the opposite happen last night. Offensive rebounding specifically was better in our win.

Hopefully Ayton can help there going forward. I also like the idea of a lineup of Rubio, Booker, Cam, Baynes, Ayton. Get it down low to Ayton and if he gets doubled kick it out to Booker, Cam or Baynes for a 3 (all shooting better than 38%).

Except, as has been posted, Baynes's body cannot withstand starter's minutes.

 

[BC867]

His balls would curl up higher in his taint if that’s what he saw.

LOL