Suns explore deal for Pau Gasol

[devilalum]

It could also be the fact that Malone averaged more points, rebounds, assists, and steals per game.

Was the discrepancy of minutes why Malone was named all-defensive team three times compared to Nowitzki's zero?

Nowitzki is an all Hall of Fame player, but to argue that he is easily better than Malone is laughable.

They don't call him Irk for nothin'.

 

[JS22]

I just don't see how adding Gasol would be detrimental. From all his interactions with LA/team Spain, he seems to be a consummate team player.

Running and gunning has served us well, but once the playoffs start and teams can scheme, I don't like our chances with the way our roster is currently constructed. We have no big men that can create their own shots, and they are all dependent on service from Goran. At least with Gasol (and hopefully Bledsoe) we'll have alternative options to drive our offense.

Further, if the Gasol experiment is a failure, cut bait in the offseason and move on.

I've done a 180 on Gasol and agree with you 100%.

Last night against the Bulls proved this point even more.

 

[devilalum]

I've done a 180 on Gasol and agree with you 100%.

Last night against the Bulls proved this point even more.

But all he knows is the "Three corner offense."

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Last night against the Bulls proved this point even more.

Yeah, that was pretty discouraging. We all know what happens when the playoffs start, and the run and gun of the regular season disappears. Being able to show multiple looks will matter, and right now, we're kind of a one trick pony.

At least with Gasol we'd have options. Hope something happens.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Malone does not separate himself from the other 2. They are statistically close, Malone only has longevity going for him.

how are they statistically close?

Dirk's career averages are: 22.9 ppg/8.1 rebounds per game/2.9 assists/.9 steals

versus

Malone's career averages which are:25 ppg/10 rebounds per game/3.6 assists/1.4 steals.

Malone is better then him in every area, and that's with several years included of Malone where he's past his prime.

Meanwhile, if you actually look at where they're career averages are at the same age, 35, Malone freaking DWARFS him, averaging 27 ppg/11 boards/3.5 assists/1.4 steals.

Nowitzki is clearly ahead for the simple fact that he was the best player on a championship team.

I am usually totally against evaluating players based on team success, especially championships, but since I already made an incredibly stupid comment and am loathe to admit I'm wrong, in this case it is true.

fixed the above for ya.

 

[sunsfan88]

When the Suns traded Shaq to Cleveland, all they got in return was Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavalovic and a 2nd rd pick.

And Shaq was coming off an All Star season AND actually had one more year under contract.

Pau isn't coming off an All Star season and is a 4 month rental so why would Pau cost more to get than what the Cavs gave up to get Shaq?

 

[Cheesebeef]

When the Suns traded Shaq to Cleveland, all they got in return was Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavalovic and a 2nd rd pick.

And Shaq was coming off an All Star season AND actually had one more year under contract.

Pau isn't coming off an All Star season and is a 4 month rental so why would Pau cost more to get than the Cavs gave up Shaq?

Because the Lakers FO isn't run by a bunch of morons like we were back then.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

When the Suns traded Shaq to Cleveland, all they got in return was Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavalovic and a 2nd rd pick.

And Shaq was coming off an All Star season AND actually had one more year under contract.

Pau isn't coming off an All Star season and is a 4 month rental so why would Pau cost more to get than the Cavs gave up Shaq?

Shaq at that point was known as a clubhouse cancer who's ego far surpassed his declining skill set. Pau was and is still known around the league as a consummate teammate who will gladly sacrifice his own numbers for the betterment of the team.

Like Chris and JS have said, I'd like to see us be able to run some stuff out of the post come playoff time. Gasol even at his age gives us that option. You know who worries me getting Gasol (although I don't do the RealGM mock trade stuff so forgive me if I don't have the numbers) is OKC. Add him to that team instead of Perk and they'd be unstoppable.

 

[sunsfan88]

Because the Lakers FO isn't run by a bunch of morons like we were back then.

Lakers fans think the same way about Jim Buss.

 

[sunsfan88]

Shaq at that point was known as a clubhouse cancer who's ego far surpassed his declining skill set. Pau was and is still known around the league as a consummate teammate who will gladly sacrifice his own numbers for the betterment of the team.

Like Chris and JS have said, I'd like to see us be able to run some stuff out of the post come playoff time. Gasol even at his age gives us that option. You know who worries me getting Gasol (although I don't do the RealGM mock trade stuff so forgive me if I don't have the numbers) is OKC. Add him to that team instead of Perk and they'd be unstoppable.

You don't have to worry, LAL would never agree to Perkins contract. As a matter of fact, no team in the NBA would agree to take on Perkins contract unless OKC is giving up Westbrook or Durant in the process.

 

[sunsfan88]

John Gambadoro @Gambo987

The Phoenix Suns never contacted the Lakers about trading for Pau Gasol and the Lakers never contacted the Suns. There were no offers made!

John Gambadoro @Gambo987

Obvious LA is desperate and trying to drum up interest in an injured Gasol.

John Gambadoro @Gambo987

Plus the Suns are not in the market of giving up a first-round pick for a rental player. Not good business.

John Gambadoro ‏@Gambo987

LA trying to move damaged goods knowing he may not come back before deadline.

http://arizonasports.com/41/1698086...s-Angeles-Lakers-never-talked-about-Pau-Gasol

Lol at the poor desperate Lakers :laugh:

Can a moderator please lock this thread up now?

 

[sunsfan88]

Ryan McDonough: "We aren't gonna trade a 1st round pick for any player that's gonna be a free agent especially for a player that's gonna be a unrestricted free agent"

http://icestream.bonnint.net/az/audio/2014/02/c_burnsandgambo020514_302625.mp3

 

[Catlover]

I like that one title somehow negates an entire career of superior play from another player.

Nowitzki is a great player, an easy hall of famer... and also clearly not on the same level as some of the other all-time great power forwards like Duncan, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Garnett and Barkley.

He did win a ring, thats wonderful, but he also was statistically well behind those other guys and has also been a lousy defender.

I'd put Tim and Karl clearly at the top but I'd have no problem with anyone putting Dirk in with the Garnett and Barkley group. I'm not sure about Moses but I think he's closer to Dirk's level than he is to Duncan and Karl.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ryan McDonough: "We aren't gonna trade a 1st round pick for any player that's gonna be a free agent especially for a player that's gonna be a unrestricted free agent"

http://icestream.bonnint.net/az/audio/2014/02/c_burnsandgambo020514_302625.mp3

Nice find on the audio. It was an interesting interview.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ryan McDonough: "We aren't gonna trade a 1st round pick for any player that's gonna be a free agent especially for a player that's gonna be a unrestricted free agent"

http://icestream.bonnint.net/az/audio/2014/02/c_burnsandgambo020514_302625.mp3

good on McDonough. only way I would have been even somewhat comfortable with the move is if it was for the Pacers pick. anything else, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Catlover]

good on McDonough. only way I would have been even somewhat comfortable with the move is if it was for the Pacers pick. anything else, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'm not convinced Gasol is off our radar. I like the fact that we are making it clear (publicly) that we aren't going to throw away picks simply because we have 4 of them. But let's face it, if Gasol can help us, giving up another pick in the 20's won't kill us. I'd rather see us package a couple of our picks this season for a better pick in next year's draft but I'll give the F.O. the benefit of the doubt if they go this direction. This is a deep draft but next year's might be better for the power positions and we're in need of a good power forward.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think you could make many arguments about Dirk but there are all kinds of reasons why stats might look better for one player versus the next. At the end of the day, how I judge is think about how said players would play each other in their prime.

No freaking way Dirk could stop Barkley or Malone. No freaking way. Especially, with the older rules in place with Barkley and Malone being able to muscle there way any place they wanted. Dirk is more of a finesse player and is more suited to the rules today.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not convinced Gasol is off our radar. I like the fact that we are making it clear (publicly) that we aren't going to throw away picks simply because we have 4 of them. But let's face it, if Gasol can help us, giving up another pick in the 20's won't kill us. I'd rather see us package a couple of our picks this season for a better pick in next year's draft but I'll give the F.O. the benefit of the doubt if they go this direction. This is a deep draft but next year's might be better for the power positions and we're in need of a good power forward.

Maybe, but the Lakers need to accept a swap for Okafor straight up if it is to happen. They are saving a ton of cash. First round draft picks usually sell for about three million (as a frame of reference) so the Suns are giving them an avenue to save big time. I wouldn't quibble if the Suns gave them a second round pick or two to save face.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not convinced Gasol is off our radar. I like the fact that we are making it clear (publicly) that we aren't going to throw away picks simply because we have 4 of them. But let's face it, if Gasol can help us, giving up another pick in the 20's won't kill us. I'd rather see us package a couple of our picks this season for a better pick in next year's draft but I'll give the F.O. the benefit of the doubt if they go this direction. This is a deep draft but next year's might be better for the power positions and we're in need of a good power forward.

I'm not totally convinced either, but I think (hope) what we're doing is playing hardball here to only give up the Pacers pick and Okafor. giving up anything more in this draft is too much for an older, in and out of the body shop, renta-player.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gambo isn't wrong when he reports something as factual. He reported the Gortat trade earlier than any other media outlet and reported the Dragic/Brooks trade and of course he earned himself a great reputation by being the first in the nation to report the blockbuster Steve Nash trade while everyone else had absolutely no idea what was going on.

I think if Gambo says we don't have interest in Gasol and haven't contacted them, then we don't have interest in Gasol and haven't contacted them.

 

[Errntknght]

I still think the trade is going to happen as it makes sense for both teams - unless the Lakers want to have Gasol continue with them, which it appears they do not. I'm sure there are other teams that would be glad to have Pau for the playoffs but who could swallow a 19M contract and not have to send back every crummy contract they have on the books.

I don't care whether we make the trade or not, to tell the truth. He would not put us into contention, IMO, so it boils down to the value for the franchise. It costs about 8 million and that is balanced against increased fan interest.

 

[95pro]

the stuff gambo was spewing sounded a lot like the ideas that were already floating around this board.

 

[slinslin]

Meanwhile, if you actually look at where they're career averages are at the same age, 35, Malone freaking DWARFS him, averaging 27 ppg/11 boards/3.5 assists/1.4 steals.

Because Malone played more minutes at a higher pace, his advanced stats don't dwarf Nowitzki at all, but I know this confuses you since we found out many times in the past that you don't know what advanced stats are.

 

[Phrazbit]

Because Malone played more minutes at a higher pace, his advanced stats don't dwarf Nowitzki at all, but I know this confuses you since we found out many times in the past that you don't know what advanced stats are.

This coming from the dude who crowed about Beasley's true shooting percentage.

I know this topic actually confuses you, as it has been discussed many times, but the leagues pace through much of the 90s (and when Malone won his MVPs) was actually SLOWER than the current NBA.

After 95, Malone's teams didnt have a pace over 91 again. While Dirk has had only 3 seasons in his career with a pace under 91. And during those years where their team's paces are comparable Malone's numbers dwarf Dirks.

As for the rest of the advanced stats... Malone beats out Dirk in just about everything except true shooting (but Malone has a better effective fg%) and win shares per 48, where Dirk edges him by .004. Now, its worth noting that those numbers include the entire scope of Malone's career and reflect a sharp decline during his final seasons. I would not be at all surprised by the end of Dirk's career his nature decline will have Malone beating him in advanced stats across the board.

And one more thing, it slays me how a dude playing more minutes is somehow used against them in statistical arguments. If the guy had the capacity and talent to play that many minutes and do so effectively, thats a bonus! However, it is worth noting that in this particular debate Malone's per 36 numbers beat out Dirk's anyway.

Also it disgusts me to have to argue FOR Karl Malone, because I really don't like that dude, and I actually like Dirk much more. But the idea that Dirk is "easily" the better player is absolutely laughable.

 

[sunsfan88]

Nice find on the audio. It was an interesting interview.

Yea they actually have those interviews every Tuesday...they are usually pretty good.