Suns fire McD

[95pro]

I have this strange feeling that we make a play for Butler. Sarver wants to win now.

Butler and Tyus Jones for Jackson, Chandler, and picks. Maybe we even taken on a bad contract like Dieng.

It's a huge risk and we have to get assurances that he would sign long term.

Jones, Booker, Butler, Ariza, Ayton

TJ and Anderson off the bench.

I've had that feeling all this time since his name came up in the rumors. I personally love Butler and his game. Question though, is this a place he wants to be? NO.

Would I be mad if we get rid of some guys, other than: Booker, Ayton, Warren, to take on Butler? I wouldn't be upset. He's ball dominant, this would alleviate Booker and the rookie of scoring duties and could be a huge asset in close games. Defense, I love his aggression on the court. I don't think he'll have any ill feelings towards Booker and Ayton due to their perceived work ethic unlike the reports on Towns.

 

[BC867]

Exactly. So you have to figure out a better approach instead of "Sarver sucks, he shouldn't be an owner!" Because that does nothing except allow you to beat your chest and proclaim you know what your talking about with no way for anyone to refute it.

For the record, Chap, I didn't ever say that Sarver shouldn't be an owner. And it is not about me.

I have given my opinion that the other 70% of the owners should end the controversy that has become his trade mark and select a different Managing General Partner.

It is about management tactics. And from comments posted about his banking activity (in San Diego and Tucson), possibly his ethics as well.

But, as was posted, the other 70% are Sarver's hand-picked boys and he has made them millionaires, so it is not going to happen.

 

[Errntknght]

I think almost all of us would have rather had a better owner than Sarver. But he didn't kidnap the Lindbergh baby, I have witnesses. I'm not so sure about the grassy knoll thing though.

I haven't heard that expression in forty years. I'll bet you heard it renetly in some old movie...

 

[Mainstreet]

I think almost all of us would have rather had a better owner than Sarver. But he didn't kidnap the Lindbergh baby, I have witnesses. I'm not so sure about the grassy knoll thing though.

I needed to hear some reassurance about now. There should be more positive thoughts entering the season. It seems not long ago many were criticizing McDonough. I'd like to see how it all works out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I haven't heard that expression in forty years. I'll bet you heard it renetly in some old movie...

I miss old movies. Who am I kidding, I miss movies. My wife and I started watching all 320 episodes of Grey's Anatomy in early August. She enjoyed it so much she talked me into watching it again (although now there's 323 episodes available) so I haven't had time for anything but a medical drama and a couple of NBA games.

 

[Yuma]

I've had that feeling all this time since his name came up in the rumors. I personally love Butler and his game. Question though, is this a place he wants to be? NO.

Would I be mad if we get rid of some guys, other than: Booker, Ayton, Warren, to take on Butler? I wouldn't be upset. He's ball dominant, this would alleviate Booker and the rookie of scoring duties and could be a huge asset in close games. Defense, I love his aggression on the court. I don't think he'll have any ill feelings towards Booker and Ayton due to their perceived work ethic unlike the reports on Towns.

Yeah, but what happens when we trade or get KAT as a free agent? LOL.

 

[Yuma]

I miss old movies. Who am I kidding, I miss movies. My wife and I started watching all 320 episodes of Grey's Anatomy in early August. She enjoyed it so much she talked me into watching it again (although now there's 323 episodes available) so I haven't had time for anything but a medical drama and a couple of NBA games.

Even my wife quit about 100 episodes! LOL.

 

[Yuma]

Whether or not he met with Doncic or any other player contact is a minor point in this episode.

The problem is Sarver's behavior concerning his General Managers, which has now been documented. And will further be proven if he names Jones, totally unproven, as his next GM.

The era of Sarver acting as the de-facto GM and treating the GM as his assistant is the problem. A good leader (Managing Partner included) knows how to delegate and choose the right candidate to delegate to.

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[AzStevenCal]

Even my wife quit about 100 episodes! LOL.

We quit well before that originally. It really wore us down with all the George and Izzie crap. But binge watching it is a completely different experience. We laugh like crazy over the craziness that would normally fester for a week in between episodes. Plus, watching it for 10 to 12 hours a day fries more than a few brain cells; probably the critical thinking cells so the show just keeps getting better.

 

[Yuma]

We quit well before that originally. It really wore us down with all the George and Izzie crap. But binge watching it is a completely different experience. We laugh like crazy over the craziness that would normally fester for a week in between episodes. Plus, watching it for 10 to 12 hours a day fries more than a few brain cells; probably the critical thinking cells so the show just keeps getting better.

I thought the summer my son and I watched LOST was bad. I think that is way short than all those episodes!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I thought the summer my son and I watched LOST was bad. I think that is way short than all those episodes!

Oh yeah, when this season ends Grey's Anatomy will be just shy of 3 times the viewing length of Lost.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have this strange feeling that we make a play for Butler. Sarver wants to win now.

Butler and Tyus Jones for Jackson, Chandler, and picks. Maybe we even taken on a bad contract like Dieng.

It's a huge risk and we have to get assurances that he would sign long term.

Jones, Booker, Butler, Ariza, Ayton

TJ and Anderson off the bench.

Butler, Dieng, Jones works money wise for Chandler, Warren, Bender, Bridges and Daniels. I can't imagine it would work for Minnesota though. I guess we could replace Bridges and Daniels with Jackson but I don't know if I'd do that even with JJ's struggles so far.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The problem with Sarver isn't the General Managers, they've all been pretty much crap. The problem is that he's terrible at hiring the right people. Doesn't mean he's out there deliberately sabotaging his employees.

When Woj, the most respected reporter in the NBA, reports he's doing exactly that, AND we know he has a history of doing exactly the above, why should anyone believe anything's changed?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You say documented, I say speculated at best. There is no doubt that Sarver was a micro-manager at one time. Both Sarver and Ryan claimed that he had learned to step back and let the basketball people make basketball decisions. That really means nothing to us as what else would anyone expect either of them to say. But by the same token, the other "reports" mean very little too AFAIC since all of them appear to go back to the same dated sources.

Didn't Woj just report on this stuff a couple days ago?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Didn't Woj just report on this stuff a couple days ago?

Yes but it was mostly stuff we've heard before and there was no mention of timeframe. Some of it was new to the public, and alarming, but again there's no mention of whether it still is happening or old news. Well, until today when he or someone else (?) said Sarver's involvement has been worse the past 2 seasons. I'd like to hear more about that before I comment though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes but it was mostly stuff we've heard before and there was no mention of timeframe. Some of it was new to the public, and alarming, but again there's no mention of whether it still is happening or old news. Well, until today when he or someone else (?) said Sarver's involvement has been worse the past 2 seasons. I'd like to hear more about that before I comment though.

me thinks you're reaching like stretch armstrong here because you want to believe things have changed because the alternative just really sucks. When I see fresh news reported right after someone got fired, I tend to believe it's brought up because it's relevant to what just happened.

 

[Yuma]

I guess I am on the fence on this. I mean a guy buys a team. He will be involved at some level. Why buy the team otherwise. One man's meddling is another man's due diligence. I mean most of these reports just say he's doing it in general with no specifics.

 

[JCSunsfan]

me thinks you're reaching like stretch armstrong here because you want to believe things have changed because the alternative just really sucks. When I see fresh news reported right after someone got fired, I tend to believe it's brought up because it's relevant to what just happened.

News people are lazy. It might be new, but I doubt it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bingo! It is interesting that it is now being documented that Sarver has no business ethics and is like a bull in a china shop. Something that ASFN/Suns fans already know.

In non-suns-related business?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The problem with Sarver isn't the General Managers, they've all been pretty much crap. The problem is that he's terrible at hiring the right people. Doesn't mean he's out there deliberately sabotaging his employees.

Agree. But it could be both. Sarver isn’t exactly shown us a lot of positives to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Chaplin]

me thinks you're reaching like stretch armstrong here because you want to believe things have changed because the alternative just really sucks. When I see fresh news reported right after someone got fired, I tend to believe it's brought up because it's relevant to what just happened.

The point is that it's not necessarily fresh. It's easy to report that when 5 years ago it was the case.

 

[AzStevenCal]

me thinks you're reaching like stretch armstrong here because you want to believe things have changed because the alternative just really sucks. When I see fresh news reported right after someone got fired, I tend to believe it's brought up because it's relevant to what just happened.

You're not wrong that I want to believe things have changed but I'm trying to be open minded on it and I'll admit, it's a real challenge to defend Sarver. But much of what I read on the attacking side is garbage. Take Sarver and the Suns out of the picture and I believe I'd be challenging these "reports" anyway.

That doesn't mean Sarver isn't a problem or THE problem. But I hear Amin say something one day and then days or weeks later I hear Woj or Rachel Nichols or Windhorst repeat almost the exact same thing. I KNOW Amin has heavily influenced the ESPN gang (and Barkley) against Sarver. What I don't know is whether it's justified or not. There's so much smoke it's difficult to think it's not supportable but one person with an agenda can create an awful lot of smoke.

 

[Chaplin]

Agree. But it could be both. Sarver isn’t exactly shown us a lot of positives to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Point conceded. Sarver could very well be the problem, but I'm tired of jumping to conclusions when those conclusions are the most negative one can come up with. And with little to no evidence of such conclusions.

 

[Cheesebeef]

News people are lazy. It might be new, but I doubt it.

right... because lazy definitely describes Woj's reputation.

And if it wasn't new... why wasn't it reported before when Sarver was previously maligned?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Point conceded. Sarver could very well be the problem, but I'm tired of jumping to conclusions when those conclusions are the most negative one can come up with. And with little to no evidence of such conclusions.

Woj is the most respected basketball journalist in the game. Not sure how his reporting is no evidence off which to make a conclusion... especially when it only re-inforces a history that we KNOW is true by Sarver's own admission.