Suns fire McD

[JCSunsfan]

Loving Doncic and liking Ayton aren't mutually exclusive.

Well I certainly hope the Ayton fan is the one who gets to stay--whoever it was.

I am so glad we did not pick Doncic. I was skeptical of him--just in case any of you forgot.

 

[BC867]

Loving Doncic and liking Ayton aren't mutually exclusive.

It was for the #1 draft pick.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Sarver unhappy with Chriss, Bender and Jackson. Chriss traded Bender benched and Jackson goes 4-19. Sarver goes Ballistic and firers everyone. Bridges to the rescue.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It was for the #1 draft pick.

Negative. You simply had to like one more than the other to make that choice. Doesn't mean you couldn't like both of them.

 

[BC867]

Negative. You simply had to like one more than the other to make that choice. Doesn't mean you couldn't like both of them.

I meant that we had to choose one of them, knowing that we wouldn't get the second.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Big jump from watching/scouting to meeting. You are making some huge assumptions. I see nothing wrong with the owner and managing general partner scouting. JColangelo did it.

This is what the line was at the time, except now it ties directly into the larger behavior of meeting players and agents without your GM.

Which no elite GM is going to tolerate it.

Heck even bottom of the barrel like Barkley literally said it. They wouldn't work under those conditions.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Negative. You simply had to like one more than the other to make that choice. Doesn't mean you couldn't like both of them.

No other owner is out there scouting players without some part of their managing staff. That is why it was a big deal when the story hit. It doesn't happen.

And while you may think that isn't a big deal I can tell you that it speaks of a lack of alignment within an organization.

 

[Raindog]

Well I certainly hope the Ayton fan is the one who gets to stay--whoever it was.

I am so glad we did not pick Doncic. I was skeptical of him--just in case any of you forgot.

You and me, both. Doncic may prove out as a credible player (or not), but Ayton is going to be a difference maker.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

We all hate Sarver, but McD was a lost cause.

I am not excusing McDonough. I am indicting Sarver.

This franchise is going to wallow in misery if he keeps this crap up.

 

[Chaplin]

This is what the line was at the time, except now it ties directly into the larger behavior of meeting players and agents without your GM.

Which no elite GM is going to tolerate it.

Heck even bottom of the barrel like Barkley literally said it. They wouldn't work under those conditions.

Again, you're accusing Sarver of actually MEETING the players with the GM. There's no proof that that ever happened, and even further, no proof that it happened without McD.

Who knows? McD could have told Sarver that he was looking at Ayton and Doncic for #1. Sarver hadn't seen the kid, so went to Europe to watch him. Doesn't mean anything other than someone doing due diligence. Now, I wouldn't put it past Sarver to reach out and talk to Luka, but for all we know, that didn't happen.

What other verifiable incidents are you referring to? And please, stop using Charles Barkley as your source.

 

[sunsfan88]

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I'm curious about how all this affects him mentally.

 

[Chaplin]

No other owner is out there scouting players without some part of their managing staff. That is why it was a big deal when the story hit. It doesn't happen.

And while you may think that isn't a big deal I can tell you that it speaks of a lack of alignment within an organization.

Really? How do you come by that information? Especially about International prospects?

Sarver is involved. The problem is that everyone is speculating just how much involvement he has without any verifiable proof except from a few people more than 5 years ago.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Really? How do you come by that information? Especially about International prospects?

Sarver is involved. The problem is that everyone is speculating just how much involvement he has without any verifiable proof except from a few people more than 5 years ago.

On top of that Sarver will openly admit that he used to be too involved in the process and has since learned to let the guys he hired to handle these things do it. Now it may be possible that he is meddling, but just doesn't actually realize that he is or he has taken a step back and people are just using old information on him.

 

[Chaplin]

On top of that Sarver will openly admit that he used to be too involved in the process and has since learned to let the guys he hired to handle these things do it. Now it may be possible that he is meddling, but just doesn't actually realize that he is or he has taken a step back and people are just using old information on him.

Step 1: Meddle uncontrollably
Step 2: Hire a new GM
Step 3: Step back
Step 4: After 5 years of watching little improvement, fire the GM

Seems pretty logical to me. Of course, this could equally be true:

Step 1: Meddle uncontrollably
Step 2: Hire a new GM
Step 3: Continue to meddle with the GM as your whipping boy
Step 4: After 5 years of watching little improvement, GM disagrees on too much, gets fired

I tend to believe the first set of steps, but I understand why most everyone else gravitates to the second.

 

[BC867]

Again, you're accusing Sarver of actually MEETING the players with the GM. There's no proof that that ever happened, and even further, no proof that it happened without McD.

Who knows? McD could have told Sarver that he was looking at Ayton and Doncic for #1. Sarver hadn't seen the kid, so went to Europe to watch him. Doesn't mean anything other than someone doing due diligence. Now, I wouldn't put it past Sarver to reach out and talk to Luka, but for all we know, that didn't happen.

What other verifiable incidents are you referring to? And please, stop using Charles Barkley as your source.

Whether or not he met with Doncic or any other player contact is a minor point in this episode.

The problem is Sarver's behavior concerning his General Managers, which has now been documented. And will further be proven if he names Jones, totally unproven, as his next GM.

The era of Sarver acting as the de-facto GM and treating the GM as his assistant is the problem. A good leader (Managing Partner included) knows how to delegate and choose the right candidate to delegate to.

 

[Chaplin]

Whether or not he met with Doncic or any other player contact is a minor point in this episode.

The problem is Sarver's behavior concerning his General Managers, which has now been documented. And will further be proven if he names Jones, totally unproven, as his next GM.

The era of Sarver acting as the de-facto GM and treating the GM as his assistant is the problem. A good leader (Managing Partner included) knows how to delegate and choose the right candidate to delegate to.

The problem with Sarver isn't the General Managers, they've all been pretty much crap. The problem is that he's terrible at hiring the right people. Doesn't mean he's out there deliberately sabotaging his employees.

 

[Willie D]

...
Seems pretty logical to me. Of course, this could equally be true:

So after 28,000+ posts on an internet message board, you're still equivocating with yourself?

GIGO.

The time to trust the Sarversifh has come and gone. If you still believe in him, let me introduce you to a plethora of bankers who generally despise his business practices.

 

[BC867]

The problem with Sarver isn't the General Managers, they've all been pretty much crap. The problem is that he's terrible at hiring the right people. Doesn't mean he's out there deliberately sabotaging his employees.

Not his "employees". His General Managers. One leads to the other. If Sarver is terrible hiring the right people, as you say, he shouldn't be the MANAGING partner, of which I have been vocal.

But it is obvious that the other owners -- who are his guys -- aren't going to challenge that. As long as they all make millions as Sarver's sheep, they are evidently satisfied.

 

[Chaplin]

So after 28,000+ posts on an internet message board, you're still equivocating with yourself?

GIGO.

The time to trust the Sarversifh has come and gone. If you still believe in him, let me introduce you to a plethora of bankers who generally despise his business practices.

I'm not a Sarver supporter. I just don't believe every bad thing that happens can be attributed to him. The only thing wrong he did here was not firing McD sooner.

But continue to personally attack, it fits you well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Whether or not he met with Doncic or any other player contact is a minor point in this episode.

The problem is Sarver's behavior concerning his General Managers, which has now been documented. And will further be proven if he names Jones, totally unproven, as his next GM.

The era of Sarver acting as the de-facto GM and treating the GM as his assistant is the problem. A good leader (Managing Partner included) knows how to delegate and choose the right candidate to delegate to.

You say documented, I say speculated at best. There is no doubt that Sarver was a micro-manager at one time. Both Sarver and Ryan claimed that he had learned to step back and let the basketball people make basketball decisions. That really means nothing to us as what else would anyone expect either of them to say. But by the same token, the other "reports" mean very little too AFAIC since all of them appear to go back to the same dated sources.

 

[Chaplin]

Not his "employees". His General Managers. One leads to the other. If Sarver is terrible hiring the right people, as you say, he shouldn't be the MANAGING partner, of which I have been vocal.

Um... sure. Ok. And...? Who is going to disagree with that?

But it is obvious that the other owners -- who are his guys -- aren't going to challenge that. As long as they all make millions as Sarver's sheep, they are evidently satisfied.

Exactly. So you have to figure out a better approach instead of "Sarver sucks, he shouldn't be an owner!" Because that does nothing except allow you to beat your chest and proclaim you know what your talking about with no way for anyone to refute it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah. I am not a big Sarver fan, but the speculation and fretting seems out of control.

 

[Folster]

I have this strange feeling that we make a play for Butler. Sarver wants to win now.

Butler and Tyus Jones for Jackson, Chandler, and picks. Maybe we even taken on a bad contract like Dieng.

It's a huge risk and we have to get assurances that he would sign long term.

Jones, Booker, Butler, Ariza, Ayton

TJ and Anderson off the bench.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah. I am not a big Sarver fan, but the speculation and fretting seems out of control.

I think almost all of us would have rather had a better owner than Sarver. But he didn't kidnap the Lindbergh baby, I have witnesses. I'm not so sure about the grassy knoll thing though.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have this strange feeling that we make a play for Butler. Sarver wants to win now.

Butler and Tyus Jones for Jackson, Chandler, and picks. Maybe we even taken on a bad contract like Dieng.

It's a huge risk and we have to get assurances that he would sign long term.

Jones, Booker, Butler, Ariza, Ayton

TJ and Anderson off the bench.

I'm hoping that's indigestion and not foresight. If we didn't already believe it, I would hope that after his tirade today that we'd know better than to bring him into such a young locker room.