Suns fire McD

[Cheesebeef]

You're not wrong that I want to believe things have changed but I'm trying to be open minded on it and I'll admit, it's a real challenge to defend Sarver. But much of what I read on the attacking side is garbage. Take Sarver and the Suns out of the picture and I believe I'd be challenging these "reports" anyway.

That doesn't mean Sarver isn't a problem or THE problem. But I hear Amin say something one day and then days or weeks later I hear Woj or Rachel Nichols or Windhorst repeat almost the exact same thing. I KNOW Amin has heavily influenced the ESPN gang (and Barkley) against Sarver. What I don't know is whether it's justified or not. There's so much smoke it's difficult to think it's not supportable but one person with an agenda can create an awful lot of smoke.

seems like a stretch that Amin could poison the well for a bunch of very respected journalists who's credibility is staked on them being right more often than wrong.

 

[Chaplin]

Woj is the most respected basketball journalist in the game. Not sure how his reporting is no evidence off which to make a conclusion... especially when it only re-inforces a history that we KNOW is true by Sarver's own admission.

Woj is great at breaking news stories about trades, firings, etc. But what does he really know about the inner workings of any front office?

 

[Cheesebeef]

The point is that it's not necessarily fresh. It's easy to report that when 5 years ago it was the case.

if it wasn't fresh... why wasn't it also reported 5 years ago when it was the case?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Woj is great at breaking news stories about trades, firings, etc. But what does he really know about the inner workings of any front office?

how do you think he knows about trades and firings without having sources about the inner working of any front office? That's where information about trades and firings and draft picks come from.

 

[Chaplin]

if it wasn't fresh... why wasn't it also reported 5 years ago when it was the case?

Because it hasn't been reported AT ALL in the 5 years since. Think about it. We couldn't get through a couple of months back then without hearing about how awful Sarver is.

 

[Superbone]

I miss old movies. Who am I kidding, I miss movies. My wife and I started watching all 320 episodes of Grey's Anatomy in early August. She enjoyed it so much she talked me into watching it again (although now there's 323 episodes available) so I haven't had time for anything but a medical drama and a couple of NBA games.

I've never watched an episode of Grey's Anatomy and I'm not going to start now. Nice try though. Although, I will give you credit for adhering to the principle of "Happy wife, happy life." Watching all 323 episodes a 2nd time?! Boy, do you get brownie points.

 

[Chaplin]

how do you think he knows about trades and firings without having sources about the inner working of any front office? That's where information about trades and firings and draft picks come from.

And Woj isn't some god that has perfect information. He's been wrong before. I'm not saying he's deliberately saying false things, I'm not even saying Amin is saying false things (although I wouldn't put it past him), but not everything Woj says is gospel. Where's the rest of the reports? Why is it just Woj? Think the other reporters out there just said, "Welp, Woj said it, so we don't need to do a follow-up!"

Point is, there is absolutely a good chance you are correct. But a tweet from Woj isn't enough to convince me of some 2-decade-long conspiracy of our basketball team being run by Mussolini.

 

[Yuma]

Jalen Rose and Amin are two guys I take with a grain of salt. Rose had his worst season with us, and then he got all butt hurt when we got rid of him. He stunk. Man up and admit it Rose.

 

[AzStevenCal]

seems like a stretch that Amin could poison the well for a bunch of very respected journalists who's credibility is staked on them being right more often than wrong.

If you'd listened regularly to his podcast with Windhorst or watched every episode of The Jump, you might feel differently. And he represents himself as a key figure in the Suns think tank, if you didn't know better you'd think he was our former GM. The guy is as smooth as they come and became the insider expert there almost over night. He may be absolutely right but he clearly does not like Sarver and he makes that point on a regular basis to his co-workers at ESPN.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And Woj isn't some god that has perfect information. He's been wrong before. I'm not saying he's deliberately saying false things, I'm not even saying Amin is saying false things (although I wouldn't put it past him), but not everything Woj says is gospel. Where's the rest of the reports? Why is it just Woj? Think the other reporters out there just said, "Welp, Woj said it, so we don't need to do a follow-up!"

here's my point... what's more credible... Woj is reporting out of his ass or Sarver's acting like an ass like he almost always has?

Point is, there is absolutely a good chance you are correct. But a tweet from Woj isn't enough to convince me of some 2-decade-long conspiracy of our basketball team being run by Mussolini.

Sure... but Woj's tweet isn't happening in a vacuum. There's eons and eons of reporting about how bad of an owner Sarver's been throughout his entire time here.

And the only conspiracy I see people peddling come from posters on this board who believe there's some kind of media-wide hatred of a team who hasn't been relevant in a decade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've never watched an episode of Grey's Anatomy and I'm not going to start now. Nice try though. Although, I will give you credit for adhering to the principle of "Happy wife, happy life." Watching all 323 episodes a 2nd time?! Boy, do you get brownie points.

Oh yeah, my wife puts out regularly. Yesterday she put out tacos, today she put out hot dogs with sauerkraut and fried potatoes. But I wouldn't recommend Grey's to anyone unless they previously liked it and had the free time to binge watch it. The binge watching is critical IMO. Plus, Sarver isn't on it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you'd listened regularly to his podcast with Windhorst or watched every episode of The Jump, you might feel differently. And he represents himself as a key figure in the Suns think tank, if you didn't know better you'd think he was our former GM. The guy is as smooth as they come and became the insider expert there almost over night. He may be absolutely right but he clearly does not like Sarver and he makes that point on a regular basis to his co-workers at ESPN.

but this wasn't the first time Woj reported on Sarver being Sarver... or Windhorst. Those guys reported on his atrocious handling of the team multiple times in the past before Amin got to ESPN.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think people are so willing to blame Sarver that it's scary. It's like watching Alex Jones. I swear someone could say, "Sarver is an alien preparing to lead and invasion of Earth" and half of people here would believe it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

but this wasn't the first time Woj reported on Sarver being Sarver... or Windhorst. Those guys reported on his atrocious handling of the team multiple times in the past before Amin got to ESPN.

I'm not sure this is correct. Amin and Windhorst worked together for a few years now and isn't Woj fairly new to ESPN? And maybe I missed it but I'd never heard of him being particularly critical about the Suns or Sarver until he started hanging out with his ESPN peers.

 

[Superbone]

Oh yeah, my wife puts out regularly. Yesterday she put out tacos, today she put out hot dogs with sauerkraut and fried potatoes.

<rimshot> Thanks, folks. He'll be here all week. Make sure to tip your waitress.

 

[Yuma]

I think people are so willing to blame Sarver that it's scary. It's like watching Alex Jones. I swear someone could say, "Sarver is an alien preparing to lead and invasion of Earth" and half of people here would believe it.

Fake news.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Woj is great at breaking news stories about trades, firings, etc. But what does he really know about the inner workings of any front office?

Probably a lot more than anyone on this board lol.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think people are so willing to blame Sarver that it's scary. It's like watching Alex Jones. I swear someone could say, "Sarver is an alien preparing to lead and invasion of Earth" and half of people here would believe it.

Probably but are you sure he's not leading an alien invasion? Maybe all this noise is just a distraction ploy?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think people are so willing to blame Sarver that it's scary. It's like watching Alex Jones. I swear someone could say, "Sarver is an alien preparing to lead and invasion of Earth" and half of people here would believe it.

right... the people who think Sarver sucks and are backed up by not only the disastrous track record on the court and ALL media reporting off it are the Alex Jones-like followers. But the others who keep dismissing all reporting as lazy/fake news and believe there's a cabal in the media against Sarver are the bastions of truth and credibility.

I'd get the above if there was ANY legit reporting that Sarver wasn't a massive problem and hasn't been for years. But right now, you're the exactly the type of person you're complaining about.

 

[Town Drunk]

I think people are so willing to blame Sarver that it's scary. It's like watching Alex Jones. I swear someone could say, "Sarver is an alien preparing to lead and invasion of Earth" and half of people here would believe it.

Or the opposite, people are so quick to defend and believe Sarver, it’s like watching a Trump rally.

There’s years of evidence stacked up against Sarver. Recent reports about it continuing from the most respected NBA reporter out there. A horse can’t change its spots.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not sure this is correct. Amin and Windhorst worked together for a few years now and isn't Woj fairly new to ESPN? And maybe I missed it but I'd never heard of him being particularly critical about the Suns or Sarver until he started hanging out with his ESPN peers.

No? Here's a gem from Woj 2011 (long before his ESPN days) during the lockout:

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2011/10/07/robert-sarver-continues-to-take-heat-amare-stoudemires-rant/

"I think Sarver's been the most difficult and has been really the last couple years of this thing. I quoted an ownership source the other day in story that he talks so much and says so many outlandish things in these meetings (that) people tune him out. You know him in Phoenix, he can erode his credibility just by opening his mouth. While he is the hardest line of the hard-liners, he is not going to dictate where this goes. He led the charge on wanting the hard cap, on wanting to get rid of the mid-level exception, but at the end of the day, he is not a powerful voice in that room. He’s one of the last owners in. He’s probably one of the least wealthy owners. And he’s probably one of the owners who really have to honest look at whether he should really own an NBA team. Does he have the wealth to really do it and do it right . . . I do think guys like Sarver are willing to lose the whole season."

No one writer out there needs to poison the Suns well. Sarver's done that all on his own for eons.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Or the opposite, people are so quick to defend and believe Sarver, it’s like watching a Trump rally.

There’s years of evidence stacked up against Sarver. Recent reports about it continuing from the most respected NBA reporter out there. A horse can’t change its spots.

bingo.

 

[Chaplin]

right... the people who think Sarver sucks and are backed up by not only the disastrous track record on the court and ALL media reporting off it are the Alex Jones-like followers. But the others who keep dismissing all reporting as lazy/fake news and believe there's a cabal in the media against Sarver are the bastions of truth and credibility.

I'd get the above if there was ANY legit reporting that Sarver wasn't a massive problem and hasn't been for years. But right now, you're the exactly the type of person you're complaining about.

And again, there hasn’t been any Sarver-specific reporting that he’s been terrible on over 5 years. I know you don’t want to believe it but why does that not matter?

 

[SirStefan32]

No? Here's a gem from Woj 2011 (long before his ESPN days) during the lockout:

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2011/10/07/robert-sarver-continues-to-take-heat-amare-stoudemires-rant/

"I think Sarver's been the most difficult and has been really the last couple years of this thing. I quoted an ownership source the other day in story that he talks so much and says so many outlandish things in these meetings (that) people tune him out. You know him in Phoenix, he can erode his credibility just by opening his mouth. While he is the hardest line of the hard-liners, he is not going to dictate where this goes. He led the charge on wanting the hard cap, on wanting to get rid of the mid-level exception, but at the end of the day, he is not a powerful voice in that room. He’s one of the last owners in. He’s probably one of the least wealthy owners. And he’s probably one of the owners who really have to honest look at whether he should really own an NBA team. Does he have the wealth to really do it and do it right . . . I do think guys like Sarver are willing to lose the whole season."

No one writer out there needs to poison the Suns well. Sarver's done that all on his own for eons.

2011! You are citing something from 2011, dude!

 

[SirStefan32]

And again, there hasn’t been any Sarver-specific reporting that he’s been terrible on over 5 years. I know you don’t want to believe it but why does that not matter?

Exactly!