Suns @ Grizzlies 10-27-18

[SweetD]

3rd quarter observation:

- JJ and Ayton have the best chemistry on the floor.

- Anderson struggling and missing assignments on D making it even worse.

- Need to get Warren more playing time and the ball in his hands. He is just to good of a scorer to leave out.

--JJ played better on both ends, more cuts and lobs to Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who can make shots AND who can stop the other team from making shots. It is also about guys that get good looks for their teammates with good passing. There is a lot more to the game than just being the guy that makes shots, though that is the "sexy" part of the game to be good at.

Not that JJ is better at those things than Tatum. I just feel like that was a very flawed statement.

There's a lot to the game but putting the ball in the hoop is what it's all about. Everything else, including defense, is secondary. And with the rules changes/interpretations of the past decade plus, that is becoming even more true.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There's a lot to the game but putting the ball in the hoop is what it's all about. Everything else, including defense, is secondary. And with the rules changes/interpretations of the past decade plus, that is becoming even more true.

What is more important, having one guy that is a great scorer or having one guy that makes scoring easier for everyone else on the team. That is why Steve Nash was a two time MVP because he made even mediocre journeyman look like good NBA players and good NBA players look like hall of famers when they played along side him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What is more important, having one guy that is a great scorer or having one guy that makes scoring easier for everyone else on the team. That is why Steve Nash was a two time MVP because he made even mediocre journeyman look like good NBA players and good NBA players look like hall of famers when they played along side him.

And even Nash says he messed up and should have been a dominant scorer instead. But regardless, putting the ball in the hole is still THE big deal. Whether the easy score is created by a great point guard or by the individual skills of the scorer matters little IMO. And Nash is by far the exception. Most point guards (and that's a huge understatement) lack the ability to really create opportunities for teammates. There are a lot of them that can get the ball to the open guy at the right time but Steve could create offensive opportunities for others that few players could ever duplicate.

 

[Covert Rain]

And even Nash says he messed up and should have been a dominant scorer instead. But regardless, putting the ball in the hole is still THE big deal. Whether the easy score is created by a great point guard or by the individual skills of the scorer matters little IMO. And Nash is by far the exception. Most point guards (and that's a huge understatement) lack the ability to really create opportunities for teammates. There are a lot of them that can get the ball to the open guy at the right time but Steve could create offensive opportunities for others that few players could ever duplicate.

Link please? I don’t recall Nash saying that and in fact I heard a recent radio interview where he was explaining that he felt he had the ability to take over games scoring wise when he needed but felt getting other guys going was essential to the success of teams he played on.

So if he said that he contradicted himself.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Link please? I don’t recall Nash saying that and in fact I heard a recent radio interview where he was explaining that he felt he had the ability to take over games scoring wise when he needed but felt getting other guys going was essential to the success of teams he played on.

So if he said that he contradicted himself.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...ly-should-have-shot-the-ball-20-times-a-game/

"Nellie [launched] my career in pushing me to be aggressive and score the ball. But I never took it to the heights that the numbers validate in today's day and age, where I probably should have shot the ball 20 times a game. It probably would have made a lot more sense."

 

[Covert Rain]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...ly-should-have-shot-the-ball-20-times-a-game/

OK that’s not the same thing as saying he shouldn’t have been a great passing PG. Which I thought was being said.

He is saying that he should have been more aggressive in the offensive end. He seems to be also talking about how he game is today.

If that’s not what he meant he definitely contradicted himself but I am taking his comment above slightly different.

For example Steve deferred to Dirk, Steve deferred to Amare and other players offensively.

He didn’t have to change who he was to get more shots.

 

[AzStevenCal]

OK that’s not the same thing as saying he shouldn’t have been a great passer
Which I thought was being said. He is saying that he should have been more aggressive in the offensive end. He seems to be also talking about how he game is today.

If that’s not what he meant he definitely contradicted himself but In taking his comment above slightly different.

For example Steve deferred to Dirk, Steve deferred to Amare and other players offensively.

He didn’t have to change who he was to get more shots.

I have no idea how you got there. If it was me, that was at no time my point.

 

[Covert Rain]

I have no idea how you got there. If it was me, that was at no time my point.

Pretty easy. You responded to a post where the point was being a great distributor was more important by saying Nash indicated it was a mistake and should have been more of a scorer "instead".

That indicated to me what was being said is he should have been less of a distributor and more of a scorer. If you didn't mean that my bad but that's what I thought you were indicating.

I think he could have been more aggressive without sacrificing being a HOF distributor.

 

[SweetD]

4th Quarter Observation
- Crawford doesn't know the plays yet, he had to be shown where to go on D and O by other players. This is expected but could be why we haven't seen him play more minutes.

-Okobo looks ok, but way out matched against Connley.

-Good to see Bridges get more minutes, by end of the year he should be a nice piece of the puzzle.

- Ayton really showing he can lead a team. I wonder if it will be a Kobe/Shaq in both trying to be the Alpha dog...I hope not

-Ayton is starting to use his off hand to create space and get better shots. He has gotten so much better even from Summer League.

*** Game Review***
Connley made this game no match for the Suns. He drove to the lane on anyone and got the ball to the right person. Also the Grizzlies made a much higher percentage than normal and Suns still not hitting their threes.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And even Nash says he messed up and should have been a dominant scorer instead. But regardless, putting the ball in the hole is still THE big deal. Whether the easy score is created by a great point guard or by the individual skills of the scorer matters little IMO. And Nash is by far the exception. Most point guards (and that's a huge understatement) lack the ability to really create opportunities for teammates. There are a lot of them that can get the ball to the open guy at the right time but Steve could create offensive opportunities for others that few players could ever duplicate.

Nash could have done both (pass and score) at a great level. However, what I am referring to is what one aspect is more important for team success. Having one guy that can score extremely well or one guy that is extremely good at passing to get everyone good looks? For me the easy answer here is the latter. Of course if you have a guy that can do both at a very high level than you will be even more dangerous.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Pretty easy. You responded to a post where the point was being a great distributor was more important by saying Nash indicated it was a mistake and should have been more of a scorer "instead".

That indicated to me what was being said is he should have been less of a distributor and more of a scorer. If you didn't mean that my bad but that's what I thought you were indicating.

I think he could have been more aggressive without sacrificing being a HOF distributor.

Did you read the conversation that led up to that post? He was asking what was more important because I had said that first and foremost, this game is about putting the ball through the hoop. And I never really picked between his hypothetical great scorer or Nash because Nash truly is a unicorn. There have been a lot of celebrated point guards, very few of them could create offense for teammates like Steve could. And with the rules changes that started in 2004/2005, Nash passed on opportunities to score that he now acknowledges he shouldn't have, given the changing league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Nash could have done both (pass and score) at a great level. However, what I am referring to is what one aspect is more important for team success. Having one guy that can score extremely well or one guy that is extremely good at passing to get everyone good looks? For me the easy answer here is the latter. Of course if you have a guy that can do both at a very high level than you will be even more dangerous.

If you are asking me if I'd take a Steve Nash clone or a great scorer, I'd take Nash. But I don't see a Nash in today's game although Curry comes close. So yes, the game is primarily about scoring and a Nash type player is the ultimate points producer, making it an easy call.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree. At the end of the day it is about putting the ball through the hoop. There is only one Curry. Which means would you rather have a guy chuck up 20 shots per game (the league has seen a ton of those guys) or a guy that distributes at a HOF level which leads to high percentage easy buckets?

To me it’s a no brainer unless we are talking about cloning Curry. Even then the guy is playing with another HOF and great supporting cast.

 

[GatorAZ]

If Nash shot more his percentages would’ve dipped a bit not making him a GOAT-level shooter. He shot a little bit more in Dallas and his TS% was 4-6 pts lower than his Suns percentages (which was still very good).

The thing about Curry is he’s shooting about five more shots a game than prime-Nash and still more efficient. That’s insanity.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Nash shot more his percentages would’ve dipped a bit not making him a GOAT-level shooter. He shot a little bit more in Dallas and his TS% was 4-6 pts lower than his Suns percentages (which was still very good).

The thing about Curry is he’s shooting about five more shots a game than prime-Nash and still more efficient. That’s insanity.

The freedom of movement rules changes had already started early in Steve's return to Phoenix but as they've evolved it's become easier and easier to get good open looks. So I don't think it's safe to say that Nash wouldn't have maintained his high efficiency, in fact, I think it might even have improved slightly. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Curry is accomplishing but the impact of the changes are worth considering IMO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The freedom of movement rules changes had already started early in Steve's return to Phoenix but as they've evolved it's become easier and easier to get good open looks. So I don't think it's safe to say that Nash wouldn't have maintained his high efficiency, in fact, I think it might even have improved slightly. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Curry is accomplishing but the impact of the changes are worth considering IMO.

Still wouldn't be at Curry levels though. Despite the changes it's not like guys just give a good shooter open looks. Curry is maybe the best ever at getting his shot whenever he wants to and then making those tough shots. Nash was not the same type of shooter to get shots off while closely guarded from the outside like Curry is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Still wouldn't be at Curry levels though. Despite the changes it's not like guys just give a good shooter open looks. Curry is maybe the best ever at getting his shot whenever he wants to and then making those tough shots. Nash was not the same type of shooter to get shots off while closely guarded from the outside like Curry is.

I guess I can't really dispute that. I believe Nash could have adjusted his game and been Curry's equal under today's rules but that means little as it's just speculation on my part.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I guess I can't really dispute that. I believe Nash could have adjusted his game and been Curry's equal under today's rules but that means little as it's just speculation on my part.

All we can do is speculate from both sides of the argument, but I just can't see Nash as Curry's equal in shooting. What makes Curry such a special shooter is that shots that would have been considered 'HORSE" shots or shots that people would take just goofing off are shots that he can make with regularity in games. He is also probably the only shooter in the history of the game that you have to closely contest all the way to like 35+ feet from the basket. He is simply a once in a lifetime shooter.

 

[AzStevenCal]

All we can do is speculate from both sides of the argument, but I just can't see Nash as Curry's equal in shooting. What makes Curry such a special shooter is that shots that would have been considered 'HORSE" shots or shots that people would take just goofing off are shots that he can make with regularity in games. He is also probably the only shooter in the history of the game that you have to closely contest all the way to like 35+ feet from the basket. He is simply a once in a lifetime shooter.

Speaking of which, did you see the ridiculous underhand shot he made against the Wizards a few days ago? It wasn't going to count but he tossed it straight up in the air about 15 and the defenders all looked a little depressed as it fell through the hoop.

 

[GatorAZ]

I guess I can't really dispute that. I believe Nash could have adjusted his game and been Curry's equal under today's rules but that means little as it's just speculation on my part.

They’re too different. Curry has a lightening quick release and run off the ball for days and spot up. Nash had to work harder and faded away a lot to avoid getting blocked. With his physical limitations it’s inctedible the efficiency he shot with.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Link please? I don’t recall Nash saying that and in fact I heard a recent radio interview where he was explaining that he felt he had the ability to take over games scoring wise when he needed but felt getting other guys going was essential to the success of teams he played on.

So if he said that he contradicted himself.

Oh he definitely said it. And it was recent. I think it was in response to Dantoni essentially saying the same thing about Steve.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK that’s not the same thing as saying he shouldn’t have been a great passing PG. Which I thought was being said.

He is saying that he should have been more aggressive in the offensive end. He seems to be also talking about how he game is today.

If that’s not what he meant he definitely contradicted himself but I am taking his comment above slightly different.

For example Steve deferred to Dirk, Steve deferred to Amare and other players offensively.

He didn’t have to change who he was to get more shots.

Uh by definition if he was taking more shots others would have been taking less.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Couldn't watch the game tonight and have not had a chance to read the thread yet. I can't believe I am happy about not losing by 20, and the fact that a pg led the team in assists.

 

[Superbone]

Couldn't watch the game tonight and have not had a chance to read the thread yet. I can't believe I am happy about not losing by 20, and the fact that a pg led the team in assists.

Are you talking about the OKC game? We were down by 20 for most of the night. It wasn't until a late 4th quarter run against OKC third stringers that we closed to 7 at the buzzer. I would not take solace in that.